It's much more problematic in basketball it's infinitely more difficult to determine individual value. In baseball however, the sport's setup affords the ability to separate a player's performance from that of his teammates.
The 2012 MLB Random Thoughts Thread
- Thread starter FloorGeneral
- Start date
It's much more problematic in basketball it's infinitely more difficult to determine individual value. In baseball however, the sport's setup affords the ability to separate a player's performance from that of his teammates.
I'm just asking because I know it affects a lot of voters thinking.
Mike Trout AL MVP Award bid could come down to Angels' record | MLB.com: News
I've even heard them talk on MLB Tonight about Braun gaining ground because of the Brewers recent resurgence.
nomoreneveragain
Superstar
I don't think you can put a number on Defense, Defense is ore about field placement and scouting.
is Trout Defense worth 2.5 wins better than Miggy's bat?
I'll give you the basestealing but I'd like to think Miggy's 20 odd more XBH evens that out.
Cano has a higher WAR than Miggy, by no means Cano is having the type of season WAR is making it out to be. WAR doesn't even take into account Cano's Stupid baserunning.
is Trout Defense worth 2.5 wins better than Miggy's bat?
I'll give you the basestealing but I'd like to think Miggy's 20 odd more XBH evens that out.
Cano has a higher WAR than Miggy, by no means Cano is having the type of season WAR is making it out to be. WAR doesn't even take into account Cano's Stupid baserunning.
I agree that it's difficult to put an exact value on, but to say it's more about positioning and scouting is ridiculous. That's part of it, but it's a gross oversimplification. But, whether or not we can gauge the exact value in "wins" is irrelevant in this case, because Trout is by all accounts (eye-test, scouting and advanced metrics) an ELITE CF while Cabrera is a well below-average 3B.
I don't know why we're comparing Trout's glove to Miggy's bat. I'll say that the gap between them on defense is much bigger than the gap between them on offense.
Cabrera has 64 more Total Bases. But Trout's 42 more steals cut away a lot of that gap...and his taking of extra bases combined with Cabrera's inability to do the same certainly makes up the other 22 bases.
Looking at the Baseball Prospectus baserunning metrics, Trout has been worth 10.1 runs while Cabrera has been worth -5.2
Tens runs is generally equal to a win...so there's 1.5 wins in Trout's favor.
Cano is having a fukking great season...but he has a higher WAR because of DEFENSE. Cabrera leads in oWAR (offensive WAR) 7.0-5.2...but again, defense matters. And yes, Baseball-Reference factors in baserunning when calculating WAR, and yes Cano's is negative.
Cano's having a good, not great season. He's a terrific player, but let's not get carried away now.
It's insane to discount team success when evaluating MVPs. There's a big difference in the pressure of playing in a pennant race vs. playing with no expectations and nothing to lose. It's no different than how some guys can't play in NY or Boston, but are fine anywhere else or a pitcher throwing stressful innings.
It's insane to discount team success when evaluating MVPs. There's a big difference in the pressure of playing in a pennant race vs. playing with no expectations and nothing to lose. It's no different than how some guys can't play in NY or Boston, but are fine anywhere else or a pitcher throwing stressful innings.
NigerianDonDada
FFOE
Cabrera with the homer
Cabrera
baseball package is the gift that keeps on giving
baseball package is the gift that keeps on giving
I don't have a problem using being in a pennant race as a factor when it's close....but every player in any MVP "discussion" this year is IN A PENNANT RACE. Trout, Cabrera, McCutchen, Braun, Molina, etc....all in the race. So miss with that shyt.
And anytime you can get .300/.371/.540 from a 2B with above-average defense...that's pretty fukking great.
The times where team success should have impacted an MVP vote are few and far between.
The idea that Trout is more worthy of the award based on whether his teammates play well enough to make the playoffs is absurd.
The idea that Trout is more worthy of the award based on whether his teammates play well enough to make the playoffs is absurd.
