Struggle of Poor Students

[Johnny Kilroy]

Man, you're still not reading well. You're grossly missing the point of why I wrote that to go for easily mockable elements of that post.

I could just point you to what @Gus Money quoted from it and leave it at that, but I'll restate it for you: The reason I wrote about my own case is exactly because its just one case. And it's only one case within a cultural structure that affects all individual cases. Now they don't affect them in the same way, and depending on your situation, it will affect one more than another. I just happened to be one that had very fortunate circumstances, but I can tell you many other cases in which it didn't work out. Some even from private schools just like mine, with situations similar to mine. Not because they didn't want to, but because their situation didn't allow them to take the type of path that I took.

(Note: "How many poor students have Agoraphobia?" is the kind of reductive garbage that I'm talking about. Seeing as it and other mental illnesses in the poor and the black often go undiagnosed because of a lack of means and an unwillingness to consider mental illness, you, nor myself and anyone else more than likely don't know the exact number or even a good approximate number, for that matter.

Oh, and those two cases that you tried to narratively relate, really weren't related. Public school wasn't for me because they aren't really built for the type of person I was at the time, while my Agoraphobic case came when I was 20-21. And if you actually knew anything about the phobia, studies show that it usually doesn't occur in people younger than about 18. Don't assume what you don't know or haven't researched.)

I'll write it again: No one's saying not to tell someone to succeed in their situation. Just that it's ignorant to blithely do so, while ignorant of factors that may lead to them not doing so. Also, you're missing the point of why we keep saying "forget your own case" beyond what I wrote above: Because you have to apply what I wrote above in aiding others, whether it be through academia, in a social work setting (two situations I'm quite familiar with), one-on-one, counseling, whatever, you have to be able to think both the individual line and the differing elements of the social line(s) at the same time and combine them when the need arises. Thinking one, as you're doing, and subsuming or eliminating the other as unimportant or unnecessary, is just as harmful as not thinking it at all.

Ok and just like you found a way to deal YOUR specific situation, each individual needs to find a way to deal with their individual situation.

Telling me percentages doesn't tell me a damn thing because you're reducing every individual person to a number or statistic.

Now if you're willing to take the time and break down every individual case and explain why they did or didn't succeed then your argument would have merit. Until then you're just spewing meaningless numbers that represent something but don't really mean anything to any individual person.

It's just like in sports. "He hasn't missed a FG all year..." then he misses. What does every other kick before that really have to do with that individual kick? You still gotta go through the motions.

 

[Gus Money]

What example? You said not everyone can get a pell grant. What point were you trying to make when you said that? Example? That doesn't make any sense at all.

You talk about one person succeeding while you fail to mention how such a person succeeds. Is there a difference between those who succeed and those who don't? You're making it seem like everyone is a machine and puts forth the same effort.

I mentioned pell grants as an example of financial aid in general. I said "not everyone can get pell grants or full scholarships" to point out that everyone who needs financial aid doesn't get financial aid. I wasn't focusing solely on pell grants so I'm not sure what you're confused about. I know pell grants are based on income but middle income families can find themselves stuck in a gray area where they don't quality for need-based aid yet they don't make enough to pay for school out of pocket.

You think every poor person is lazy? Every dropout is a bum who didn't try hard enough? I'm not making it seem like everyone puts in the same effort, I'm trying to explain that effort isn't the only thing that determines success. The girls in that article in the original post were all bright and hardworking but they had no way to keep paying for school. They had no support network when things got rough. Most people can't overcome those obstacles. Rags-to-riches stories are rare for a reason.

Of course hard work and effort are necessary, but you can't ignore everything else and blame individuals for societal problems. Most people remain in the same socioeconomic class that they're born into. This is a fact. Why do you think that is?

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

I mentioned pell grants as an example of financial aid in general. I said "not everyone can get pell grants or full scholarships" to point out that everyone who needs financial aid doesn't get financial aid. I wasn't focusing solely on pell grants so I'm not sure what you're confused about. I know pell grants are based on income but middle income families can find themselves stuck in a gray area where they don't quality for need-based aid yet they don't make enough to pay for school out of pocket.

You think every poor person is lazy? Every dropout is a bum who didn't try hard enough? I'm not making it seem like everyone puts in the same effort, I'm trying to explain that effort isn't the only thing that determines success. The girls in that article in the original post were all bright and hardworking but they had no way to keep paying for school. They had no support network when things got rough. Most people can't overcome those obstacles. Rags-to-riches stories are rare for a reason.

Of course hard work and effort are necessary, but you can't ignore everything else and blame individuals for societal problems. Most people remain in the same socioeconomic class that they're born into. This is a fact. Why do you think that is?

I'm confused because you said not everyone who needs financial aid can get financial aid. If they meet the criteria for this discussion, ie they are a low in come student then they can get financial aid.

Now they may have fukked up and not sent in the FASFA on time but then just proves my point about some people pushing forward and some people sitting on their ass. And the minute you start talking about middle income you've left the real of this thread because middle income is not low income.

Now, take 2 students, both with "no way to pay for school." One busts their ass and gets a few scholarships, one sits and pouts and says "It's not fair that I'm a low income student." Which of these do you think is more likely to succeed? Luck has nothing to do with that. Besides, luck is only preparation for opportunity. An opportunity presents itself, you're either ready ("lucky") or not ready ("unlucky") to take advantage. "They're giving out that scholarship today? Good thing I took the time to prepare a well written essay." says the one student. "Scholarship? Damn I wish I had have known about that" says the future "low income student turned dropout".

That's why the numbers mean nothing to me. Stating percentages is implying everyone set of circumstances was the same and every amount of effort was the same and some people just got lucky. No. Some people are go-getters, some people are not. It really is that simple.

 

[Gus Money]

It really is that simple.

It's definitely not that simple, but if you honestly believe this, despite all of the evidence that people described in this thread, then there's really nothing left to do but agree to disagree.

 

[Kayla Fortenberry]

bunch of clowns thinking exceptions are the norm

 

[88m3]

Just get good grades.

Being a lower income student, only bringing forth a 2.0 and a narrow minded perspective of life, aint going to cut it...

I was never eligible for financial aid

 

[Broke Wave]

I think we're ignoring highschool and elementry poor students... thats where it matters most.

I remember going to school with nothing in my stomach... that really had me on another level of cynicism... I even dropped out a couple times just for love of money... shyt was brazy but I survived. I can only imagine how many kids feel that way but just say fukk it and never go back.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I was fortunate enough to work for one of the too-big-to-fails who paid 80% of my tuition throughout most of my college, even though I was a biology major, which has nothing to do with banking. Between my mother, my good salary for a young college-aged adult working 30 hours a week, and Florida's low ass tuition rates, the 20% remaining was easily covered and I graduated with 0 in debt.

I just used them for their tuition reimbursement and quit the banking industry altogether and got a job in my major field 3 weeks after graduating. I guess I'm kind of a hypocrite for shytting on the big banks right?

 

[Serious]

It's definitely not that simple, but if you honestly believe this, despite all of the evidence that people described in this thread, then there's really nothing left to do but agree to disagree.

man it really is. Without sounding like a full-blown rethug / gundumb associate, a lot of cats will give a million and one excuses, but never admit any fault of their own.

Never mind all throughout my academic tenure, the majority of my "brothers" proceeded to not hold their ground. Never mind being the only black male in several of my classes. Never mind cats, never coming to class or leaving school early. Heck I used to do the same, when my priorities of a young cat, consisted of: pursuing p*ssy, getting high(weed) and illegal dough(whole nother topic), but eventually internalized, for every action there's a reaction(consequence). Essentially this lead to owning up to all of my responsibilities, and never blaming anyone else for any shortcomings / being unaware of the presented opportunities.

This exception rhetoric is disturbing. To much credit is given to individuals whom could probably care less, or aren't fully mature...

Real talk, this school sh*t is easy...

With that said, I really feel for low income cats, whom despite, trying to get everything right are still missed up in the system(unable to secure grants, the right opportunities, scholarship). Just keep grinding, people will take notice. As cliche as it sounds, most people don't understand what truly putting in hard is and never taking no for answer. (waits for someone to misinterpret this, by using personal references about people struggling)

I also feel for cats, whom school, engages them, on another level, that can't be reciprocated in an academic setting.

Commonly dubbed as: Albert Einstein "Swag". One of most intelligent cats, that almost never was. Breh suffered from dyslexia, too (like a young "serious")...

 

[Gus Money]

man it really is. Without sounding like a full-blown rethug / gundumb associate, a lot of cats will give a million and one excuses, but never admit any fault of their own.

Never mind all throughout my academic tenure, the majority of my "brothers" proceeded to not hold their ground. Never mind being the only black male in several of my classes. Never mind cats, never coming to class or leaving school early. Heck I used to do the same, when my priorities of a young cat, consisted of: pursuing p*ssy, getting high(weed) and illegal dough(whole nother topic), but eventually internalized, for every action there's a reaction(consequence). Essentially this lead to owning up to all of my responsibilities, and never blaming anyone else for any shortcomings / being unaware of the presented opportunities.

This exception rhetoric is disturbing. To much credit is given to individuals whom could probably care less, or aren't fully mature...

Real talk, this school sh*t is easy...

With that said, I really feel for low income cats, whom despite, trying to get everything right are still missed up in the system(unable to secure grants, the right opportunities, scholarship). Just keep grinding, people will take notice. As cliche as it sounds, most people don't understand what truly putting in hard is and never taking no for answer. (waits for someone to misinterpret this, by using personal references about people struggling)

I also feel for cats, whom school, engages them, on another level, that can't be reciprocated in an academic setting.

Commonly dubbed as: Albert Einstein "Swag". One of most intelligent cats, that almost never was. Breh suffered from dyslexia, too (like a young "serious")...

This doesn't sound simple at all.

I'm not saying people shouldn't work hard and take responsibility, I'm saying that there are people in our society who legitimately don't have a shot to succeed.

The bolded statement is the exact point I was trying to make. We're on the same page. I probably should have been more clear about my argument.

 

[Serious]

This doesn't sound simple at all.

I'm not saying people shouldn't work hard and take responsibility, I'm saying that there are people in our society who legitimately don't have a shot to succeed.

The bolded statement is the exact point I was trying to make. We're on the same page. I probably should have been more clear about my argument.

Yeah but that example is sohh rare its almost infallible. More than likely the opportunity is glaring them in the face, but they refuse to accept the help for any reason. That's like being illiterate in 2013. There's an abundance of information in America. I can't help peeps that would rather be on FB and twitter than in the library studying.

Producing babies on the weekend, instead of hitting libraries, parks, museums etc. (waits for excuses, bu bu but that's not cool)

The article clearly showcases 3 females whom didn't take enough initiative, in understanding the inner workings of college, yet complain about not graduating on time. One of them, was even forced to take up a large sum of debt(50k I believe)because she didn't register on time for a "student relief program"(enormous financial aid).

Logic should us, that financing an expensive education, should be on one's mind 24/7.

The of rest of their circumstances are merely byproducts of life.

sh*t happens

Such as, all those gurls going threw flawed / abusive relationship and not being mature enough to live away from home.

I want to see some hardcore evidence of low income individuals whom had a 4.0 in hs, all the potential in the world, scholarship lined up(maybe 3.5+). Then busted their ass off, the next few semesters in college(3.5+), and still got f*cked over...

 

[88m3]

I was fortunate enough to work for one of the too-big-to-fails who paid 80% of my tuition throughout most of my college, even though I was a biology major, which has nothing to do with banking. Between my mother, my good salary for a young college-aged adult working 30 hours a week, and Florida's low ass tuition rates, the 20% remaining was easily covered and I graduated with 0 in debt.

I just used them for their tuition reimbursement and quit the banking industry altogether and got a job in my major field 3 weeks after graduating. I guess I'm kind of a hypocrite for shytting on the big banks right?

Your first born will end up working in finance for that bank for your indiscretion.

 

[Dillah810]

Nobody should be talking about me. Every individual student should be talking about themselves. That's my point.

What do a million other students have to do with Student A? Student A needs to get on his shyt.

You're kinda contradicting yourself. It's not about ME (because I'm not you) but it's about everybody else (who also aren't you).

While you dislike my attitude, I despise yours. "Well the majority fail so it's ok if I fail too." That's called a loser mentality.

The problem with black people is we look at EVERYBODY ELSE instead of OURSELVES. And by "ourselves" I'm not talking about "us" as a people. I'm talking about individuals. I don't give a damn how anybody sees me. I don't give a damn what anybody else is doing, black, white, whatever. None of that means anything to ME. None of that has any bearing on ME. Nor should it on any other individual unless they're looking for a BS cop out of an excuse for why they're not succeeding.

With all do respect, it's your bytch ass attitude and excuse making that's the problem, not me saying fukk all that, succeed regardless. You're just trying to justify failure. That's really upsetting to me. You would never be invited to my house for dinner. Your negative and pitiful attitude would not be welcome.

Where did that come from? LOL

 

[Serious]

Where did that come from? LOL

missed that part.....

Real talk in 2013, if there is a black agenda(minorities included), let's make this the year of no excuses and work on closing up that gap...

This exception talk, seems arbitrary, it lessens blacks as well as other minorities to lower sub standards....

Here's some food for thought, I Listen to when I'm down and need some inspiration.

 

[theworldismine13]

missed that part.....

Real talk in 2013, if there is a black agenda(minorities included), let's make this the year of no excuses and work on closing up that gap...

This exception talk, seems arbitrary, it's like lessen blacks other minorities to lower sub standards....

Here's some food for thought, I Listen to when I'm down and need some inspiration.

Common - It's your world (part 1 & 2) - YouTube

this is pretty much it, i actually read that article when it came out and did not post it because i didnt see new information in it, it just describes regular struggles that everybody goes through

also you should add to your advice giving hugs, a lot of people need hugs