SPIN: WOULD "SUPERSTAR Steve Austin" made ECW a legit competitor to WWF and WCW

[MrSinnister]

youre basing this off of unrealistic hypotheticals.

- TNA did in fact exist without TV time back then. they were strictly on pay-per view. and they outlasted all the other promotions that came out during that period that tried to fill the wcw void.
- ROH? they were wrestling in pre-school gyms at the time. TNA stayed b*tchin them out over talent.
- ECW wouldve got b*tched out too. they had no bank. and as i said earlier, TNA had big stars coming thru there from day one that wouldnt have dealt with ecw.

as far as austin goes, he didnt bring the wwf back by himself. their machine played a big part in that and they survived the drought before they heated back up because of BRAND LOYALTY. they wouldve still had the rock. plus, other wrestlers wouldve made the jump. it was an all-around golden age for talent. they wouldve signed up a gang of people and eventually been alright without austin. they lasted years with that mediocre roster. just like they lasted years with a mediocre roster in the late 00s/early '10s.

Stone Cold saved WWE, because his personality played well off every wrestler on the roster. Anyone who's watched clips or been in that era, knows that without Austin and VKM playing off him, that shyt had NO direction and they were throwing fukkery on the wall to see what stuck. WWE likely would've had to keep Bret Hart, who wasn't a great fit into the E anymore for what was trying to be done. Taker's gimmick was still cartoonish, and the Rock was Roman Reigns I (and they hated him a lot more then).

WCW likely would've made better decisions, not having to fear WWE and continuously seeing them further behind them in their rear mirror. They would've gained the fans that Stone Cold (didn't exist), DX, Nation, Rock, and others lost through boredom and expensive PPV's, and that would mean more revenue, which would mean more chances able to be taken. Also remember the screw job likely wouldn't have happened either.

ECW would've been what TNA is now, in a period of smarter restructuring, and getting the wrestlers that WWE couldn't afford and WCW didn't need. All three companies were already rotating talent as it is.

My main question is where do you see TNA getting a foothold in that....at all?? Yes, Dixie bought the company from Jeff Jarrett, but what do you really think Jarrett would have had to work with at this point. Again, my point is market share and over saturation. There wasn't enough channels that was wrestling friendly that TNA would fit, if SCSA got ECW one.

Even of ECW failed, I don't see TNA surviving if WCW won, as it would've been the biggest monster ever, and not simply burying people like WWE did after they won. They had all the biggest stars, and an unlimited budget, that they were now contributing to. The AOL merger likely would've given them more investment, or at least inspiration for brand splits.

And the hypotheticals are realistic, as I'm pulling SCSA out of WWE and showing how the rest of the domino's would have fallen. Your hypothetical continues to assume TNA would be created where there is no real space or wrestlers for it. So before you start refuting my claim, tell me what wrestlers you would actually be able to start with.

 

[Here Comes the Pain]

Nah. He took that grit that he learned from his time in ecw and applied it in the wwf.

Ecw was a niche wrestling company. The violence would've pigeonholed it's main appeal. The overall answer is no.

 

[Wacky D]

And the hypotheticals are realistic, as I'm pulling SCSA out of WWE and showing how the rest of the domino's would have fallen. Your hypothetical continues to assume TNA would be created where there is no real space or wrestlers for it. So before you start refuting my claim, tell me what wrestlers you would actually be able to start with.

nah those hypotheticals are not realistic.

you have ecw signing wrestlers that the wwf cant afford and all types of stuff. youre deep in the zone and you even pulled me in for a second.

all i initially responded to was the comment that TNA wouldnt exist if ECW didnt fold - which is not true.

before my last post, i wasnt basing anything off of hypotheticals. im basing it on the real-life wrestling landscape circa '01-02.

 

[MrSinnister]

nah those hypotheticals are not realistic.

you have ecw signing wrestlers that the wwf cant afford and all types of stuff. youre deep in the zone and you even pulled me in for a second.

all i initially responded to was the comment that TNA wouldnt exist if ECW didnt fold - which is not true.

before my last post, i wasnt basing anything off of hypotheticals. im basing it on the real-life wrestling landscape circa '01-02.

So you don't think SCSA remaining in ECW would change anything else? Wow dude. You know how time works right?

 

[Wacky D]

So you don't think SCSA remaining in ECW would change anything else? Wow dude. You know how time works right?

i see what youre getting at now.

but the answer is still no.

he was only there as a pitstop between wcw & wwf.
ecw had bigger names going thru there than what austin was at the time. it was a revolving door.
now if he went over there after leaving the wwf as stone cold steve austin, then yea, it would be a different story.

 

[prophecypro]

Honestly JR, Russo and all them pushing him in WWF and supporting who he truly was was the best thing that happened to him

I feel like had he been healthy and felt the need to stay he would have been like Shane Douglas. ECW had a ton of guys like him as others have said (badasses who could cut shoot promos and be non PG), doing it on a mainstream platform stage and doing it against people like Jake and Bret Hart is what made people go and then of course the biggest element: The fact that he eventually went up against Vince himself

Mid 90s everyone was pushing the envelope down in Philly, its another story to do in the big leagues.

 

[XII]

How did TNA get thrown into this conversation

 

[Wacky D]

How did TNA get thrown into this conversation

the homie said something along the lines of ECW being a better version of TNA or something like that.

and that made me get the keyboard boarding.

Honestly JR, Russo and all them pushing him in WWF and supporting who he truly was was the best thing that happened to him

I feel like had he been healthy and felt the need to stay he would have been like Shane Douglas. ECW had a ton of guys like him as others have said (badasses who could cut shoot promos and be non PG), doing it on a mainstream platform stage and doing it against people like Jake and Bret Hart is what made people go and then of course the biggest element: The fact that he eventually went up against Vince himself

Mid 90s everyone was pushing the envelope down in Philly, its another story to do in the big leagues.

i dont care for the "big leagues" wording.

but yea, the difference between austin & guys like shane douglas is the platform/machine.

 

[MrSinnister]

i see what youre getting at now.

but the answer is still no.

he was only there as a pitstop between wcw & wwf.
ecw had bigger names going thru there than what austin was at the time. it was a revolving door.
now if he went over there after leaving the wwf as stone cold steve austin, then yea, it would be a different story.

As mentioned earlier, Superstar Steve Austin causes the WWF to fold. Would be doubtful ECW does anything but stay a niche, as everything was over the top and Austin would've just been white noise after a certain point. Heyman was taking pieces from everywhere, and likely not really setting up a flagship star for the company, but multiple ones to meet niches.

Austin made Vince and Rock primarily. Doesn't meant Rock wasn't a great talent, but Austin was able to clear the feuds from being race-based, and just redneck, as DX (KLIQ) was leaning .

WCW was the most hospitable for Blacks, who likely would've been put off when DX jumped the shark with some fukkery. Then, the racism likely would've lost its power with no one to troll.

I don't see WWF surviving with no Austin or Vince without screw job heel turn.

If WWF folds, rather than WCW, then there is no TNA.

 

[Ill Lou Malnati]

No.

 

[YoungFlyGentleman]

No because they already had that gimmick spread out amongst other ecw guys, all Austin did was take a bunch of gimmicks he saw in ecw and stole them and put them on vinces tv

Sandman was the beer drinker
Taz was the FTW I don't give a fukk about nothing guy, Austin used to rip promos VERBATIM from Taz
New Jack was the bald head guy who did the brawling and bleeding and shyt talking
He even stole Mikey Whipwrecks finisher for fukk sake (whippersnapper)

 

[Wacky D]

As mentioned earlier, Superstar Steve Austin causes the WWF to fold. Would be doubtful ECW does anything but stay a niche, as everything was over the top and Austin would've just been white noise after a certain point. Heyman was taking pieces from everywhere, and likely not really setting up a flagship star for the company, but multiple ones to meet niches.

Austin made Vince and Rock primarily. Doesn't meant Rock wasn't a great talent, but Austin was able to clear the feuds from being race-based, and just redneck, as DX (KLIQ) was leaning .

WCW was the most hospitable for Blacks, who likely would've been put off when DX jumped the shark with some fukkery. Then, the racism likely would've lost its power with no one to troll.

I don't see WWF surviving with no Austin or Vince without screw job heel turn.

If WWF folds, rather than WCW, then there is no TNA.

our argument wasnt about wcw folding. it was about ecw.

how in the hell did austin make the rock?

austin got the ball rolling for the wwf again, but youre giving him way too much credit. the fate of the company didnt rest on his shoulders breh.

 

[MrSinnister]

No because they already had that gimmick spread out amongst other ecw guys, all Austin did was take a bunch of gimmicks he saw in ecw and stole them and put them on vinces tv

Sandman was the beer drinker
Taz was the FTW I don't give a fukk about nothing guy, Austin used to rip promos VERBATIM from Taz
New Jack was the bald head guy who did the brawling and bleeding and shyt talking

how in the hell did austin make the rock?

austin got the ball rolling for the wwf again, but youre giving him way too much credit. the fate of the company didnt rest on his shoulders breh.

if the wwf folds, theres still another company breaking thru. and that wasnt the argument. it was about TNA/ECW. you got me all over the place. lol.

He made the Rock by giving The Corporate champ a real foil to work with. He made the Rock by going against the Nation, without making it racist, even if it made the fans go at the feud. Austin never went there. From IC Champ, to the big belt, Austin and Rock's clashes made both, as well as got the WWF away from 80's storytelling, to some real shyt. Austin, again, works well with anyone on the WWE roster. That's not giving credit, it's just they let him grow into the leader of the anti-WCW movement, by giving their true fans someone like them to root for. They wanted the asskicker, beer drinking, risk all for his principles sonofabytch that didn't trust authority or anyone given power from it.

Not that hard to understand if you read the rest of the comments in this thread. He took what he learned in ECW, put it together, and gave it to WWF. In ECW, he just would've been another a$$hole with a bad attitude. If WWF, it was original to those fans, so it was able to break out in the right environment.

Austin also had career defining clashes against all the heavyweights in the late 90's roster, that usually elevated both performers for it. He was the money maker, bar none.

You're all over the place, because you're thinking of things too much in a bubble here. TNA is made from WCW, because people wanted the Russo realism element still. WCW performers were able to do this, while if WWF folded, you'd just have relics with 80's storytelling and 90's cartoonish Mortal Kombat-lite shyt. It wasn't going to work. Most wrestlers in TNA used their real names, so what was WWE cast offs going to bring?

 

[Wacky D]

He made the Rock by giving The Corporate champ a real foil to work with. He made the Rock by going against the Nation, without making it racist, even if it made the fans go at the feud. Austin never went there. From IC Champ, to the big belt, Austin and Rock's clashes made both, as well as got the WWF away from 80's storytelling, to some real shyt. Austin, again, works well with anyone on the WWE roster. That's not giving credit, it's just they let him grow into the leader of the anti-WCW movement, by giving their true fans someone like them to root for. They wanted the asskicker, beer drinking, risk all for his principles sonofabytch that didn't trust authority or anyone given power from it.

Not that hard to understand if you read the rest of the comments in this thread. He took what he learned in ECW, put it together, and gave it to WWF. In ECW, he just would've been another a$$hole with a bad attitude. If WWF, it was original to those fans, so it was able to break out in the right environment.

Austin also had career defining clashes against all the heavyweights in the late 90's roster, that usually elevated both performers for it. He was the money maker, bar none.

You're all over the place, because you're thinking of things too much in a bubble here. TNA is made from WCW, because people wanted the Russo realism element still. WCW performers were able to do this, while if WWF folded, you'd just have relics with 80's storytelling and 90's cartoonist Mortal Kombat-lite shyt. It wasn't going to work. Most wrestlers in TNA used their real names, so what was WWE cast offs going to bring?

the rock made himself.
youre reaching for straws breh.

and youre revising your arguments after other people's posts. i see you.

and our argument was based off you saying that TNA wouldnt exist if ecw was still around. all this other stuff is not my call. its just side stuff that you pulled me into.

im the one that TOLD YOU. that TNA was modeled after wcw. now all of a sudden, youre acting like youre telling me something new 2 pages later.

i like the mind games tho breh. you almost got me.

very sinnister you are.

 

[MrSinnister]

the rock made himself.
youre reaching for straws breh.

and youre revising your arguments after other people's posts. i see you.

and our argument was based off you saying that TNA wouldnt exist if ecw was still around. all this other stuff is not my call. its just side stuff that you pulled me into.

im the one that TOLD YOU. that TNA was modeled after wcw.

i like the mind games tho breh.

Not revising anything, I've been consistent. I just don't feel like typing novels here. I'm hoping you can connect, but I gotta take the word of others about your wacky claims and move on. If you think TNA can be built with WCW still active, and can't see the influence Stone Cold had on the WWF, that's on you.

I don't know how you can change major history, and let everything else still happen like usual . Don't ever try to discredit me tho. I never did that to your arguments. I don't want to be forced to call them stupid.

It's like saying Hitler beats Russia, but still loses to USA and Britain.