Spin: When did you finally realize that Jay Z's discography is borderline trash?

[Insensitive]

Saying people are listening to music because of a "narrative" is the epitome of being a hater.




It's not a narrative, it's quality fukking music when people are still listening to your shyt 20 years later

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

You're the homie and you post excellent takes, but I wanna just address a key difference, IMO.

I agree with the first part, 100%. Old school boom bap is dated, but I think one of the reasons people don't say that it didn't age well is because it's made up of samples from samples that always have and always will speak to people---singing voices, horns, keys, guitars, etc. Even G-Funk beats were largely sampled from classics like Parliament that was live music people got down with and loved.

The Swizz and Timbo beats from like 98-01 or so were sort of made in contrast to that boom bap style, and didn't stay in fashion for very long. And the Casio era Swizz joints just sounded super thin and cheesy. I don't even remember anyone loving those beats back in that era, to be honest. People fukked with the music Swizz made because they loved DMX, Jay, and The Lox. But producer heads never fukked with Swizz the way they fukked with Preemo, RZA, Pete, etc.

I remember after Dynasty and Blueprint a lot of people being really happy, like "fukk that was a rough few years for production but we made it through."

This...ppl liked DMX & co. despite the trash Swizz was lacing them with.

Also, I think it's important to point out that there's Boom Bap like 36 Chambers or Enta Da Stage which sound early 90s af, and then there's the East Coast sound that is often still labeled as boom bap that sounds much newer than the early tribe, 1st Wu Album, Enta Da Stage.

I don't consider IWW, Ironman, Reasonable Doubt, or Hell on Earth to be "boom bap" ....OB4CL, LS, The Infamous and other 1994-1995 classics are borderline boom bap, they're kind of in the middle between the 1996 East Coast sound and the 1993,94,95 sound heard on RTD, Illmatic, 36 Chambers, Enta Da Stage, etc.

Enta Da Stage to me is the quintissential "boom bap" album...super dusty drums, still some early 90s "yell rap" choruses, less crips mixing, etc. It sounds ancient even compared to Illmatic, RTD, 36 Chambers...

 

[Rell84shots]

Worst GOAT discography belongs to

 

[TheDarceKnight]

This...ppl liked DMX & co. despite the trash Swizz was lacing them with.

Also, I think it's important to point out that there's Boom Bap like 36 Chambers or Enta Da Stage which sound early 90s af, and then there's the East Coast sound that is often still labeled as boom bap that sounds much newer than the early tribe, 1st Wu Album, Enta Da Stage.

I don't consider IWW, Ironman, Reasonable Doubt, or Hell on Earth to be "boom bap" ....OB4CL, LS, The Infamous and other 1994-1995 classics are borderline boom bap, they're kind of in the middle between the 1996 East Coast sound and the 1993,94,95 sound heard on RTD, Illmatic, 36 Chambers, Enta Da Stage, etc.

Enta Da Stage to me is the quintissential "boom bap" album...super dusty drums, still some early 90s "yell rap" choruses, less crips mixing, etc.

Big facts. Also, regarding the bolded...not only was it not considered a boom bap album at the time, but hardcore purist hip hop heads considered it a sellout album. If I Ruled The World is a joint that people might mistakenly call boom bap now, but back then was absolutely considered more of a "pop record". That sounds insane to think in 2022 that that was more of a pop song, but it kinda was.

Very dope post. Some people might argue with you and say it's a distinction without a difference, but I agree with you that it's a difference.

Now days everyone just calls all sample based east coast rap beats from the 90's "boom bap", when it's not the case.

 

[UpNext]

No Blueprint? Funny enough if you throw Blueprint in there, Jay listed those as the best 4 albums in his own catalogue as well.

Man half them songs on that aged like pure dog shyt to me not even gonna lie.

 

[Chip Skylark]

Worst GOAT discography belongs to

No debate

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Big facts. Also, regarding the bolded...not only was it not considered a boom bap album at the time, but hardcore purist hip hop heads considered it a sellout album. If I Ruled The World is a joint that people might mistakenly call boom bap now, but back then was absolutely considered more of a "pop record". That sounds insane to think in 2022 that that was more of a pop song, but it kinda was.

Very dope post. Some people might argue with you and say it's a distinction without a difference, but I agree with you that it's a difference.

Now days everyone just calls all sample based east coast rap beats from the 90's "boom bap", when it's not the case.

I'm well aware...I was one of those that still doesn't love IWW the same as the internet now does...this is because I played Illmatic for a full 2 years prior, and expected the similar sound with more 'hardcore/gangsta' influence (like how Nas was rapping on "Eye for an Eye"). I was dissappointed w/ IWW at first but still had lots of songs I loved. I don't view it as the same flawless-level classic in the same vein as illmatic, RTD, 36 Chambers, OB4CL, LS, or even Ironman.

I'll take The Infamous and Ironman over IWW any day. The Mafiosi raps felt a bit forced to me, especially compared to OB4CL which handled the Mafiosi/Drug Kingpin themes flawlessly. It was very obvious at the time that Nas hopped on the trend, going from project kid that was halfway connected to street level dealers to full on multi-kilo dealing, internationally connected wise guy. I was never a big fan of the globalized Kingping shyt b/c it feels forced and fake af. Why can't MFers be on some Avon Barksdale shyt if they're going to over-inflate shyt? Why they trying to act like they're Sosa, some kind of cocaine aristocrisy that consists only of South Americans? I liked how Biggie, Rae, CNN handled the dealer shyt much more...felt like Goodfellas (flawless film) rather than Casino (still classic 9.5/10, but it does NOT envoke the same vibe, same nostalgia, same gravity)

For the bolded, idk how any keen listener can not hear a MAJOR difference between 1995 The Infamous and 1996 Hell On Earth. Hav's drums were filthy boom-bap on The Infamous...by the time Hell On Earth came out, the sound was much more refined, still had the hard, but a little less sewer-grime feel, less project stairwell vibe.

Same with RTD and LAD...LAD isn't boom bap at all.

RZA's production from 36 Chambers>Return to the 36 Chambers>CL became much more refined as well.

 

[raoulduke187]

like 10-12 years ago

always hated that fake ass corny ass biter ass no talent having ass snake in the grass ass hypebeast ass fraud ass talentless ass wave riding ass mf

if you really get down to it, put nostalgia and him bein a part of the golden era aside, dude is super trash, only time he spit a hot flow was when he was using someone else's shyt

ol ride the comet's tail ass nikka

 

[Absolut da poet ®]

LoL

Y'all funny
and you still don't understand how all the hate you shower on Jay Z
Only makes him more relevant

Where's the Cam'ron threads, Ghostface, Busta, his peers ?
Golden era ? No Rakim, KRS, Big Daddy Kane?
Last era.. No Wayne, Eminem?

But for a guy who hasn't released an album in over half a decade
And is "trash" y'all can't stop talking about him and making these threads daily

Where's the Canibus or Cassidy threads... Are they trash too like JayZ ?
Why does a trash rapper need this level of attention

Y'all can't go 1 day on this site without a Jay-Z thread on the first page

Lol do you though smh

 

[Piff Perkins]

I'm well aware...I was one of those that still doesn't love IWW the same as the internet now does...this is because I played Illmatic for a full 2 years prior, and expected the similar sound with more 'hardcore/gangsta' influence (like how Nas was rapping on "Eye for an Eye"). I was dissappointed w/ IWW at first but still had lots of songs I loved. I don't view it as the same flawless-level classic in the same vein as illmatic, RTD, 36 Chambers, OB4CL, LS, or even Ironman.

I'll take The Infamous and Ironman over IWW any day. The Mafiosi raps felt a bit forced to me, especially compared to OB4CL which handled the Mafiosi/Drug Kingpin themes flawlessly. It was very obvious at the time that Nas hopped on the trend, going from project kid that was halfway connected to street level dealers to full on multi-kilo dealing, internationally connected wise guy. I was never a big fan of the globalized Kingping shyt b/c it feels forced and fake af. Why can't MFers be on some Avon Barksdale shyt if they're going to over-inflate shyt? Why they trying to act like they're Sosa, some kind of cocaine aristocrisy that consists only of South Americans? I liked how Biggie, Rae, CNN handled the dealer shyt much more...felt like Goodfellas (flawless film) rather than Casino (still classic 9.5/10, but it does NOT envoke the same vibe, same nostalgia, same gravity)

For the bolded, idk how any keen listener can not hear a MAJOR difference between 1995 The Infamous and 1996 Hell On Earth. Hav's drums were filthy boom-bap on The Infamous...by the time Hell On Earth came out, the sound was much more refined, still had the hard, but a little less sewer-grime feel, less project stairwell vibe.

Same with RTD and LAD...LAD isn't boom bap at all.

RZA's production from 36 Chambers>Return to the 36 Chambers>CL became much more refined as well.

IWW is great to me but I'd agree it doesn't compare to The Infamous or OB4CL. In terms of sound I think that album is darker than a lot of people remember...but at the same time the big sonic difference for me is the drums. The drums on IWW are a lot cleaner, there are cymbal crashes on it that were not common in rap at the time. Illmatic is full of familiar drum samples or boom bap shyt, vs an almost uptempo r&b drum sound on IWW.

Ironically that drum sound largely ended up taking over rap and can even be heard today.

 

[Insensitive]

Big facts. Also, regarding the bolded...not only was it not considered a boom bap album at the time, but hardcore purist hip hop heads considered it a sellout album. If I Ruled The World is a joint that people might mistakenly call boom bap now, but back then was absolutely considered more of a "pop record". That sounds insane to think in 2022 that that was more of a pop song, but it kinda was.

Very dope post. Some people might argue with you and say it's a distinction without a difference, but I agree with you that it's a difference.

Now days everyone just calls all sample based east coast rap beats from the 90's "boom bap", when it's not the case.

I think Sonically they are different but musically they do very similar things hence the "Boom bap" title.

Lo-fi Hip-Hop, Trap, Neo-Soul even G-Funk often feature the "Boom Bap" and other other rhythmic qualities
that make them very "Hip-Hop".

IDK tho. I came after the 90s heads so to me, I often classify it that way.
I'm old enough to have listened to his music when it was relatively fresh/new but young enough that
I might be wrongly categorizing it.

On topic:

The Coli is more concerned with tearing down people, petty online beefing and just generally always "shytting" on
something that discussing music in earnest.
Makes The Booth a tough slog especially when other parts of the net concerning Hip-Hop are filled with the kinds
of white folk, I wouldn't take serious discussing this Hip-Hop offline.

 

[winb83]

LoL

Y'all funny
and you still don't understand how all the hate you shower on Jay Z
Only makes him more relevant

Where's the Cam'ron threads, Ghostface, Busta, his peers ?
Golden era ? No Rakim, KRS, Big Daddy Kane?
Last era.. No Wayne, Eminem?

But for a guy who hasn't released an album in over half a decade
And is "trash" y'all can't stop talking about him and making these threads daily

Where's the Canibus or Cassidy threads... Are they trash too like JayZ ?
Why does a trash rapper need this level of attention

Y'all can't go 1 day on this site without a Jay-Z thread on the first page

Lol do you though smh

It's not really hate. He made a lot of trendy vapid songs with hot producers but much of his catalog isn't timeless. A lot of the Neptunes stuff in general didn't age all that well. Most of his stuff was him spitting far above average lyrics on dope at the time beats. You go back to IWW and the production was competent but Nas challenged himself to make conceptual songs like Shootouts that you can just listen to and marvel at the storytelling. If Jay made a track and I didn't care about the beat next song. If Nas made a song and the beat was meh lyrically he might be telling a story or some shyt that makes the song more entertaining than just the production.

There's a reason Blueprint is considered one of his best albums. The production is stellar even to this day. Jay was mad influential but none of his clones really amounted to much.

 

[Insensitive]

Most clones don't amount to much. Many clones are just retreads of ideas that are already done.
Rhythmically and lyrically Jay-Z has one clone in particular that is very successful:

Lupe Fiasco.

 

[Lord Beasley]

i don't really agree with the OP, but I've never really been a jay z fan. only owned 1 album: roc la familia

 

[Chip Skylark]

Jay has

RD
VOL 1
Vol 2 or Vol 3 (I don’t like Vol 2 and prefer Vol 3)
BP
BA
AG
WTT
4:44

That’s a lot of good, great, and a couple classic albums. His discography isn’t trash simply because that’s 7-8 albums with a lot of hit records in between which are a lot.

The only person comes is Nas which is why both are the GOATS in my eyes