I'm watching on al Jazeera. I'm about ready to mute this shyt, the dream sellin is at a high level.
Sooo....no talk on Kiev's gradual descent into Mad Max beyond Thunderdome status??
- Thread starter 2Quik4UHoes
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I'm watching on al Jazeera. I'm about ready to mute this shyt, the dream sellin is at a high level.
Ohhh, okay.
I was confusing the map he posted. I thought that was all Ukraine.
I read about the protest lead by the boxer, but, I'm was lost after reading that a week ago.
Now, I'm sure I can follow it.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
I'm watching on al Jazeera. I'm about ready to mute this shyt, the dream sellin is at a high level.
It's refreshing to me.
It's refreshing to me.
If nothin else, it was a interesting change of pace seeing him giving a speech like this abroad. He's really trying to push the Europeans into isolating Russia, I'm sure Keystone will pass and Moscow will deal more with China if the situation cranks up.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
It could work out well to America's benefit and the West as a whole. Russia has been trying to sabotage us for a long time. I'm worried about all the oil and fracking we've seen what has happened in just a few short years with BP, West Virgina, and there have been a few other serious spills in Southern States. I'm not sure how easily Russia could supply oil to China without it costing them trillions. Russia's pipelines run West not East and shipping would be a logistical nightmare.
Now that I'm learning, more...this looks bad.
Ok, so back in November there were two deals on the table for former president Yanukovych to take. Russia offered 15 Bil and an extra discount on gas/oil whle the EU offered 8 bil, plus Ukraine was gonna have to go through reforms before being admitted into the EU. Putin had no problem with Yanukovych taking the EU deal as long as he still took the Moscow deal, but the EU told Yanukovych he could only choose one or the other. So Yanu took Putin's deal, mind you there are parts of Ukraine that have been anti-Russian since at least WWII so the country is a delicate balance between pro Russian and pro Ukrainie/Europe. Moreover, Putins greater goal is to create a Eurasian economic bloc with former Soviet states in order to rival the EU. Ukraine is the most important piece in the Eurasian plot, but from the West perspective gaining influence in Ukraine is huge and brings NATO right at Moscow's doorstep and more or less the humiliation of old Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union would be complete. It isn't only about that though of course, Ukraine is one of the biggest grain producers and serves as the primary go between for the EU's gas consumption and Russia's vast reserves. For the opposition, Ukraine looks at its neighbors in Poland and want to follow that same path but that's means there can be no one or the other from the West's perspective.
So when Yanukovych took Putin's deal instead of the EU's this was the spark that began the protests in Kiev and in the west of the country. The East, South, and Crimea were Yanukovych supporters and it was them that elected him into office so while they eventually saw protests that was more because of pro-Ukrainian contingents rather than it being indicative of the overall feeling of those regions. So as months pass the protest get increasingly violent and by January when I made this thread the capitol was basically on some Mad Max, COD, it was something out of a movie/video game. The opposition comprised of moderates and legitimate candidates as well as extremist neo-nazi hooligans and ultra-nationalists but they were all united in their hate of Yanukovych and desire to be with the EU. Police shot with rubber bullets, the protesters used molotovs, fireworks, and anything they could get their hands on and basically mobbed on them and ganged up on individual cops. You can go to the beginning of this thread for the pics and videos.
Fast forward and an agreement is made on Feb 21st between the EU, Yanu, and Moscow(although I think I heard Putin never agreed) but when that agreement was made the protesters smelled blood and pulled the coup d'etat. Yanu was sent running for Russia for fear of his life, meanwhile the opposition was now the government in place. Now Moscow's position is that the government in place was not elected, illegitimate, and puts their borders in danger by such a lack of regard for the democratic process. The West's argument is that the people have the right to decide for themselves how to be governed not to mention Yanukovych was a corrupt official. So more or less this has become a contest of geopolitical influence between the East and West. Both sides used different methods to gain what they want, Russia by force and the West by more subtle, subversive tactics. In the end Ukrainians themselves are getting fukked over regardless of which side they choose. Moscow wants to go back to the Feb 21st agreement so that the pro-Russian voting bases may be ignited enough to win back influence in Kiev, while the West want to push this shyt through as fast as possible so as to avoid any chance of Moscow regaining influence. So since Crimea is a place of historic and military importance to Russia, the Putin regime took that land back and now the West is fighting Moscow with banks instead of tanks and diplomatic language which resembles a parent scolding a child.
A few more things to note.
- The snipers that killed people in Independence Square killed both protesters and police, which calls into question who was behind it.
- A phone call were leaked between two U.S. officials(the official "fukk the EU" call) basically saying the West had to mid-wife a new pro West govt in Ukraine.
- The EU has huge economic interests in Russia, which is why Obama is on this current speech tour in Europe to consolidate support against Russia. So where things go from here is going to be interesting.
And to think, I thought Putin was some goofball, who trolls with shirtless pics riding bears.
Seriously, thanks...especially the info on the actual deal that was on the table.
And, this issue looks more complicated. Though, the "people" ran out the guy they thought were bad, for them, it's wrong/un-Democratic, still. I can understand Russia, or Moscow, having trepidations about that. And, the US (w/ the West) co-signing this looks dirty, IMO, because, you got the pro-Russia guy out, by any means...sounds a bit early 2000's-ish.
I'm gonna watch this, better.
Yeah, I'm opposed to Keystone and really want us to be more aggressive with getting off of dirty energy so this situation is not at all going to help. It'll provide a boon for the natural gas industry here tho so I guess short term gains for long term consequences is something to be happy about. Good point on Russia though the only chance he got is transferring the stuff by train. Had the Russians won in Afghanistan back in the 70s/80s, they might've been able to get a Central Asian pipeline going and have easier access to the Chinese market. Point is, if Putin wants to keep this position he'll have to look to diversify his clientele since America will be pressuring Europe to look elsewhere for their energy resources. This could also be big for Africa actually, it could bring their natural gas/oil resources into play now if this is on the up and up that'll be great but if not then it'll ehh. Either way, a lot of shyt will be affected by what happens in this conflict.
And to think, I thought Putin was some goofball, who trolls with shirtless pics riding bears.
Seriously, thanks...especially the info on the actual deal that was on the table.
And, this issue looks more complicated. Though, the "people" ran out the guy they thought were bad, for them, it's wrong/un-Democratic, still. I can understand Russia, or Moscow, having trepidations about that. And, the US (w/ the West) co-signing this looks dirty, IMO, because, you got the pro-Russia guy out, by any means...sounds a bit early 2000's-ish.
I'm gonna watch this, better.
Yeah this shyt is really complicated and honestly it's hard not to get into a red team vs blue team mentality because both sides are slingin endless propaganda. Looking at it objectively, both sides have their wrong doings and both sides have their fair points. This situation was a ticking time bomb since the collapse of USSR and NATOs gradual encroachment in Russia's neighborhood and Ukraine was the one place that was going to bring a reaction because of Crimea and especially given how strongly Putin feels about end of Soviet Russia being a tragedy. Ideally, both sides would compromise and go back to the Feb 21st agreement and let all sides decide how they want their govt to be ran and both the EU and Moscow would be allowed to have deep economic relations with Kiev which in the end would benefit the people of Ukraine who desperately need these funds since Yanukovych basically took all of the country's money. Doubt that happens tho.
your backin up the wrong tree..
I'll give you a chance to apologize before goin in.. you can either do it here publicly or via pm..
I give you 24hrs.
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
U.S. and NATO May Deploy Additional Forces in Eastern Europe
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/27/world/europe/obama-europe.html
this is a good speech, obama really shined here in breaking shyt down
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/27/world/europe/obama-europe.html
this is a good speech, obama really shined here in breaking shyt down
your backin up the wrong tree..
I'll give you a chance to apologize before goin in.. you can either do it here publicly or via pm..
I give you 24hrs.
u a obama set up red lines and not do shyt about it, sanctions with no teef havin ass niukka, and its barkin up the wrong tree doggie
This story gets more and more gangster.
I hope this can be resolved--goes without sayin'.
Digga38
The seperation between what's fake and what's real
Why would Putin do this???? If he create conflict in Eastern Ukraine his economy would tank.