The events taking place in Kiev have strengthened my opposition to gun control.
A citizenry needs to be able to meaningfully fight back...
Wouldn't matter.
The 2nd amendment is a placebo for the average citizen.
Sooo....no talk on Kiev's gradual descent into Mad Max beyond Thunderdome status??
- Thread starter 2Quik4UHoes
- Start date
Wouldn't matter.
The 2nd amendment is a placebo for the average citizen.
So because they are so well armed we should disarm the public and leave them completely defenseless?
We'd get slaughtered if even 1/3rd of the military followed orders, nevermind the fact Cops being the shyt stains they are would almost all be down with oppressing any uprising.
I see what your saying, but I disagree.
watching those people get shot in the head, and all they have to retaliate are molotovs...
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So because they are so well armed we should disarm the public and leave them completely defenseless?
I see what your saying, but I disagree.
watching those people get shot in the head, and all they have to retaliate are mazel tovs...
No, what I'm saying is that even with guns we'd get slaughtered if it came down to it
Once them M1 Abrams rumble into town with drones overhead unconcerned with collateral damage your Remington 30-06 isn't gonna matter much.
Ps. I think you mean molotovs too breh, I don't think Jewish celebrations are gonna help
No, what I'm saying is that even with guns we'd get slaughtered if it came down to it
Once them M1 Abrams rumble into town with drones overhead unconcerned with collateral damage your Remington 30-06 isn't gonna matter much.
Ps. I think you mean molotovs too breh, I don't think Jewish celebrations are gonna help
fixed....and i agree, we would get destroyed, but removing any chance of defense seems silly. I'd rather they had to use big guns.
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
brute force is only one factor out of many factors, so it would matter a whole a lot how the population was armed
the question isnt so much how would a shotgun damage a tank, the question is way more complicated than that, one of the many questions is what are the political implications if a politician gave an order to send a tank into a city and could that politician or his government survive the political ramifications of such an action
the question isnt so much how would a shotgun damage a tank, the question is way more complicated than that, one of the many questions is what are the political implications if a politician gave an order to send a tank into a city and could that politician or his government survive the political ramifications of such an action
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Black smoke and cac jokes
Your daps are mine
Ukraine: Yulia Tymoshenko released as country lurches towards split
Former prime minister's release and Viktor Yanukovych's fall from power leaves country dangerously divided
- Conal Urquhart and agencies
- theguardian.com, Saturday 22 February 2014 11.24 EST
- Jump to comments (111)
A poster of Yulia Tymoshenko in central Kiev. Photograph: Darko Bandic/AP
Ukraine's former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko was freed from custody on Saturday, as President Viktor Yanukovych's fall from power threatened to leave Ukraine dangerously split.
Parliament in Kiev voted to remove the president from power and called elections for 25 May, while politicians from the south and east of the country said they would not recognise the authority of the capital.
Security forces left the streets and public buildings unguarded, and the president's offices and residence were vacant. Protesters moved into the vacuum, setting up their own checkpoints.
MPs heard held an emergency session in which they elected a new speaker and new ministers and voted for the release of Tymoshenko. The former prime minister was released from a hospital in Kharkiv and is expect to fly to Kiev.
Many of the MPs for southern and eastern Ukraine were absent from the session. Instead hey were at a pre-scheduled congress of regional politicians in Kharkiv, where the president was also believed to be.
The new interior minister, Arsen Avakov, declared that the police were now behind the protesters they had fought for days, with 77 people killed and leaving central Kiev with the look of a war zone while central authority crumbled in western Ukraine.
Members of the protesters' "self-defence" militia guarded the grounds of Yanukovych's residence outside Kiev.
The disintegration of Yanukovych's government marks a setback for the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, who had counted on the Ukrainian leader to bring the country into a Eurasian union of former Soviet-bloc nations.
A senior security source said Yanukovych was still in Ukraine, but was unable to say whether he was in Kiev. An ally was quoted as saying he was in the country's generally pro-Russian east.
The Unian news agency cited Anna Herman, an MP close to Yanukovych, as saying the president was in the north-eastern city of Kharkiv, in a mainly Russian-speaking province.
The government, still led by a Yanukovych ally, said it would ensure a smooth handover of power to a new administration.
"The cabinet of ministers and ministry of finance are working normally," the government said in a statement. "The current government will provide a fully responsible transfer of power under the constitution and legislation."
Yanukovych, who enraged much of the population by turning away from the European Union to cultivate closer relations with Russia three months ago, made sweeping concessions in a deal brokered by European diplomats on Friday after days of pitched fighting in Kiev, with police snipers gunning down protesters.
But the deal, which called for early elections by the end of the year, was not enough to satisfy demonstrators, who want Yanukovych out immediately in the wake of the bloodletting.
Parliament has acted quickly to implement the deal, voting to restore a constitution that curbs the president's powers and to change the legal code to allow Tymoshenko to go free. On Saturday, MPs voted to speed up her release by eliminating a requirement that the president approve it.
The speaker of parliament, a Yanukovych loyalist, resigned and parliament elected Oleksander Turchynov, a close Tymoshenko ally, as his replacement.
Two protesters in helmets stood at the entrance to the president's Kiev office. Asked where the state security guards were, Mykola Voloshin said: "I'm the guard now."
Dmytro Pylipets, 32, a doctor from Kharkiv who was wearing military fatigues and helmet, said: "I think Yanukovych is frightened and panicking. I feel we are almost there. The Maidan revolution is almost done."
Tymoshenko's release could transform Ukraine by giving the opposition a unifying leader and potential future president, although Vitali Klitschko and others also have claims.
She was jailed by a court under Yanukovych over a natural gas deal with Russia she arranged while serving as premier. The EU had long considered her a political prisoner, and her freedom was one of the main demands it had for closer ties with Ukraine during years of negotiations that ended when Yanukovych abruptly turned towards Moscow in November.
In a sign of the quick transformation, the interior ministry responsible for the police swung behind the protests. It said it served "exclusively the Ukrainian people and fully shares their strong desire for speedy change".
Avakov told Ukraine's Channel 5 TV: "The organs of the interior ministry have crossed to the side of the protesters, the side of the people."
Leaders of Ukraine's Russian-speaking eastern provinces, however, voted to challenge anti-Yanukovych steps measures taken by parliament in Kiev. Eastern regional politicians meeting in Kharkiv adopted a resolution saying the measures "in such circumstances cause doubts about their ... legitimacy and legality.
"The central state organs are paralysed. Until constitutional order and lawfulness are restored … we have decided to take responsibility for safeguarding constitutional order, legality, citizens' rights and their security on our territories."
The governor of Kharkiv, Mikhaylo Dobkin, told the meeting: "We're not preparing to break up the country. We want to preserve it."
Yanukovych's concessions on Friday ended 48 hours of violence that had turned the centre of Kiev into an inferno of blazing barricades. Without enough loyal police to restore order, the authorities had resorted to placing snipers on rooftops who shot demonstrators in the head and neck.
The foreign ministers of France, Germany and Poland negotiated the concessions, in what the Kremlin's envoy acknowledged as superior diplomacy.
Yanukovych, 63, a former Soviet regional transport official with two convictions for assault, did not smile during a signing ceremony at the presidential headquarters on Friday.
Emailand
http://news.sky.com/story/1215658/tymoshenko-freed-as-ukraine-dictatorship-ends
They got what they wanted...now what
Jhoon
Spontaneous Mishaps and Hijinks
I dont think thats what they really wanted. think of it like when those people ask for prisoners to be released. it was a test of the political resolve. thats why I posted that the same body that convicted her, released her. and now buddy is in a corner tip toeing on the border because hes terrified. voltaire would lick his chops right now. its a terribe idea to be right when the government insists on being wrong.and
http://news.sky.com/story/1215658/tymoshenko-freed-as-ukraine-dictatorship-ends
They got what they wanted...now what
Jhoon
Spontaneous Mishaps and Hijinks
a government has the right to defend itself just as a body has to defend itself against infection. alternatively, society can view their existence through the same prism. they have to defend themselves against an infection. I think this dance is a good thing that leads to an immunity.
...and i agree, we would get destroyed, but removing any chance of defense seems silly. I'd rather they had to use big guns.
We'd get slaughtered if even 1/3rd of the military followed orders, nevermind the fact Cops being the shyt stains they are would almost all be down with oppressing any uprising.
Not sure about that, unless the US dramatically improves counterinsurgency tactics. I wouldn't exactly call our unconventional military efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq a resounding success. Too many people and guns in this country. What we lack is the courage other people have elsewhere. We, for the most part, put more value on life than other countries with tyrannical governments.
Not sure what it'd take for me to be fed up to the point of riding like some Syrians or Ukrainians.
Jhoon
Spontaneous Mishaps and Hijinks
westerners are the causes for the world ills. for americans to engage in this behavior, it would be like cancer eating aids and tbNot sure about that, unless the US dramatically improves counterinsurgency tactics. I wouldn't exactly call our unconventional military efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq a resounding success. Too many people and guns in this country. What we lack is the courage other people have elsewhere. We, for the most part, put more value on life than other countries with tyrannical governments.
Not sure what it'd take for me to be fed up to the point of riding like some Syrians or Ukrainians.
No, what I'm saying is that even with guns we'd get slaughtered if it came down to it
Once them M1 Abrams rumble into town with drones overhead unconcerned with collateral damage your Remington 30-06 isn't gonna matter much.
Ps. I think you mean molotovs too breh, I don't think Jewish celebrations are gonna help
Exactly. Even with guns that the average redneck has, we still can be easily wiped out with the
Terminator bots that the military has.
newworldafro
DeeperThanRapBiggerThanHH
Computers Putin saying .....
What up with all this Putin talk now. U.S and Union like fukk them we planning the revolution and we taking Ukraine and he ain't doing Shyt.
newworldafro
DeeperThanRapBiggerThanHH
.... I'm surprised this thread isn't stickied and more responses, this is some wild stuff happening right now....http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea-idUSBREA1P23U20140227
Ukraine leader warns Russia after armed men seize government HQ in Crimea
By Alessandra Prentice
SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:35am EST
Ukrainian police stand guard in front the Crimean parliament building in Simferopol February 27, 2014.
An Interior Ministry member stands guard near the Crimean parliament building in Simferopol February 27, 2014. Armed men seized the regional government headquarters and parliament on Ukraine's Crimea
People hold flags during a pro-Russian rally outside the Crimean parliament building in Simferopol February 27, 2014. Armed men seized the regional government headquarters and parliament on Ukraine's
Ukrainian police separate ethnic Russians (R) and Crimean Tatars during rallies near the Crimean parliament building in Simferopol February 26, 2014 (This dude's face,
(Reuters) - Armed men seized the regional government headquarters and parliament in Ukraine's Crimea on Thursday and raised the Russian flag, alarming Kiev's new rulers, who urged Moscow not to abuse its navy base rights on the peninsula by moving troops around.
"I am appealing to the military leadership of the Russian Black Sea fleet," said Olexander Turchinov, acting president since the removal of Viktor Yanukovich last week. "Any military movements, the more so if they are with weapons, beyond the boundaries of this territory (the base) will be seen by us as military aggression
Ukraine's Foreign Ministry also summoned Russia's acting envoy in Kiev for immediate consultations.
true
There were mixed signals from Moscow, which put fighter jets along its western borders on combat alert, but earlier said it would take part in discussions on an International Monetary Fund (IMF) financial package for Ukraine. Ukraine has said it needs $35 billion over the next two years to stave off bankruptcy.
The fear of military escalation prompted expressions of concern from the West, with NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen urging Russia not to do anything that would "escalate tension or create misunderstanding".
Polish foreign minister Radoslaw Sikorski called the seizure of government buildings in the Crimea a "very dangerous game".
"This is a drastic step, and I'm warning those who did this and those who allowed them to do this, because this is how regional conflicts begin," he told a news conference.
It was not immediately known who was occupying the buildings in the regional capital Simferopol and they issued no demands, but witnesses said they spoke Russian and appeared to be ethnic Russian separatists.
Interfax news agency quoted a witness as saying there were about 60 people inside and they had many weapons. It said no one had been hurt when the buildings were seized in the early hours by Russian speakers in uniforms that did not carry identification markings.
"We were building barricades in the night to protect parliament. Then this young Russian guy came up with a pistol ... we all lay down, some more ran up, there was some shooting and around 50 went in through the window," Leonid Khazanov, an ethnic Russian, told Reuters.
"They're still there ... Then the police came, they seemed scared. I asked them (the armed men) what they wanted, and they said 'To make our own decisions, not to have Kiev telling us what to do'," said Khazanov.
About 100 police were gathered in front of the parliament building, and a similar number of people carrying Russian flags later marched up to the building chanting "Russia, Russia" and holding a sign calling for a Crimean referendum.
One of them, Alexei, 30, said: "We have our own constitution, Crimea is autonomous. The government in Kiev are fascists, and what they're doing is illegal ... We need to show our support for the guys inside (parliament). Power should be ours."
Crimea, the only Ukrainian region with an ethnic Russian majority, is the last big bastion of opposition to the new political leadership in Kiev following the ouster of Yanukovich on Saturday.
Part of Russia's Black Sea fleet is based in Crimea, in the port of Sevastopol
Ukraine's new leaders have been voicing alarm over signs of separatism there. The seizure of the building was confirmed by acting interior minister Arsen Avakov, who said the attackers had automatic weapons and machine guns.
"Provocateurs are on the march. It is the time for cool heads," he said on Facebook.
Turchinov, speaking in Kiev to parliament, which had been called to name a new government, described the attackers as "criminals in military fatigues with automatic weapons".
He also called on Moscow not to violate the terms of an agreement that gives the Russian Black Sea fleet basing rights at Sevastopol until 2042.
The regional prime minister said he had spoken to the people inside the building by telephone, but they had not made any demands or said why they were inside. They had promised to call him back but had not done so, he said.
RUSSIAN WARNINGS
Russian President Vladimir Putin has ignored calls by some ethnic Russians in Crimea to reclaim the territory handed to then Soviet Ukraine by Soviet Communist leader Nikita Khrushchev in 1954.
The United States says any Russian military action would be a grave mistake.
But Russia's foreign ministry said in a statement that Moscow would defend the rights of its compatriots and react without compromise to any violation of those rights.
It expressed concern about "large-scale human rights violations", attacks and vandalism in the former Soviet republic.
Ethnic Tatars who support Ukraine's new leaders and pro-Russia separatists had confronted each other outside the regional parliament on Wednesday.
Yanukovich was toppled after three months of unrest led by protesters in Kiev. He is now on the run and being sought by the new authorities for murder in connection with the deaths of around 100 people during the conflict.
Crimea is the only region of Ukraine where ethnic Russians are the majority, though many ethnic Ukrainians in other eastern areas speak Russian as their first language.
The Tatars, a Turkic ethnic group, were victimized by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin in World War Two and deported en masse to Soviet Central Asia in 1944 on suspicion of collaborating with Nazi Germany.
Tens of thousands of them returned to their homeland after Ukraine gained independence with the collapse of the Soviet Union at the end of 1991