Software Development and Programming Careers (Official Discussion Thread)

[kevm3]

I hope that this ends up being one of the more active threads on the site. I'm really looking forward to everyone here continually posting their observations on programming.

 

[Type Username Here]

Please take my advice on this: learn databases and SQL. Doesn't matter if it's MySQL, Oracle, SQL Server, SQLite, MongoDB, etc.. It will make you that much better of a programmer and make your resume pop.

 

[AwkwardHand]

yeah, this is why im still trying to fully grasp. Im looking into web-developing and android apps and a bunch of other things too.


Im downloading the book right now as im typing lol..

I hope that this ends up being one of the more active threads on the site. I'm really looking forward to everyone here continually posting their observations on programming.

Yeah, I'm a definitely try to stay active on this thread and build, I don't really feel like I have a lot to contribute yet as I'm a student of the game, but I will most def post as I learn and experience more, I'm really trying to get in this field before I graduate this year. I hope we all eat good this year. A lot of knowledge in this thread. Man we should really get a programming Tinychat poppin' or something LOL, 'cause I see a lot of brehs on the coli who are already in this field and I know I can learn a lot more from dialoguing with them.

 

[kevm3]

What's a trip to me is just how large languages are becoming. I was reading this c++ book, and the book is 1200 pages. I remember it saying the first edition was like 400 pages, and that was back in the 90s. Through successive editions and especially as they added STL to C++, the language grew massive, and so did the books. There is this book on programming interview questions, and the current edition is 500 pages. The new edition is supposed to be 800 pages. I think we're going to get to a point where you don't ever 'master a language' and know the whole language inside out, but rather some subset of it since programming languages are continually adding features and becoming so large... that's what I hear about C++. You don't ever master the whole of the language, but rather a subset of it, since it is such a large and multi-paradigm language. Even the creator of the language, Bjarne Stroustrup, says he isn't fully familiar with all of the language.

I'm glad I learned Javascript before it really started to bloat into a massive language, which it will do starting with ES6. Something I like about C is how simple it is and it really removes a lot of the cruft and lets you see the essence of making a program. I'm sure there are people who probably don't know that OO isn't necessary to build programs since that's what they learned ever since they started programming, especially if they've learned nothing but Java.

I don't think procedural programming is great if you're working in large teams or on huge programs, but doing some can help you get more of an idea of exactly what a computer is doing, since computers are more like sequences of instructions. OO is an abstraction that helps organize code and make it reusable. It's not necessary and can obfuscate what is actually required in a program when one is learning programming.

 

[AwkwardHand]

What's a trip to me is just how large languages are becoming

Yup, and that just boggles my mind each and every day man. It's nuts how large these languages are becoming.

I think we're going to get to a point where you don't ever 'master a language' and know the whole language inside out, but rather some subset of it

And I think that's what bothered me in the beginning. I come from a background where you have to not only learn something but be a master at it in order to be competitive in anything. I had to come to terms with the fact that I will always be learning and I will constantly have to put the effort in learning new things to stay current. Man I got so many books on programming and it's like I don't have enough time to get through all of em. Funny, I was just talking to my project management professor about that too.

that's what I hear about C++. You don't ever master the whole of the language, but rather a subset of it, since it is such a large and multi-paradigm language.

Yeah breh, I was looking at an old post on a C++ forum and they were saying the same exact thing. Like someone correct me if I am wrong but the first mortal kombat was made using C++ and that was what back in like 90-91? It's crazy how much the language has evolved since then.
I seen that BFM dude on here who made a fighting game using C++ and to be 100 that really inspired me to stay on my grind and get as much knowledge on programming as possible.

 

[kevm3]

Yup, and that just boggles my mind each and every day man. It's nuts how large these languages are becoming.


And I think that's what bothered me in the beginning. I come from a background where you have to not only learn something but be a master at it in order to be competitive in anything. I had to come to terms with the fact that I will always be learning and I will constantly have to put the effort in learning new things to stay current. Man I got so many books on programming and it's like I don't have enough time to get through all of em. Funny, I was just talking to my project management professor about that too.



Yeah breh, I was looking at an old post on a C++ forum and they were saying the same exact thing. Like someone correct me if I am wrong but the first mortal kombat was made using C++ and that was what back in like 90-91? It's crazy how much the language has evolved since then.
I seen that BFM dude on here who made a fighting game using C++ and to be 100 that really inspired me to stay on my grind and get as much knowledge on programming as possible.

Games are pretty much what made me want to get into programming in the first place. When I was younger, I found programming too intimidating, so I came back to it late. I wish I had stuck with it. Yeah, languages now are massive. It's hard to find what exactly is 'essential' to programming. If you like to learn, this is definitely the field since there is so much you can do. I just mentally have to come to the conclusion that I'll never 'master it all'. There will always be something new to learn.

 

[keepemup]

Games are pretty much what made me want to get into programming in the first place. When I was younger, I found programming too intimidating, so I came back to it late. I wish I had stuck with it. Yeah, languages now are massive. It's hard to find what exactly is 'essential' to programming. If you like to learn, this is definitely the field since there is so much you can do. I just mentally have to come to the conclusion that I'll never 'master it all'. There will always be something new to learn.

I honestly fail to understand what makes languages 'massive'. Do you mean the libraries?

As far as I'm concerned all programming languages are close to identical, save the syntax and any special 'enhancements' required by the creators of a particular language.

The fundamentals are the same; get an input, manipulate the data, spit out the result.

 

[kevm3]

I honestly fail to understand what makes languages 'massive'. Do you mean the libraries?

As far as I'm concerned all programming languages are close to identical, save the syntax and any special 'enhancements' required by the creators of a particular language.

The fundamentals are the same; get an input, manipulate the data, spit out the result.

If you boil everything down programming to the most simplest terms, that's what programs boil down to. However, how each language goes about handling all of that differs drastically. What can eventually make a language massive is all of the features, whether it be libraries or language features, that keep getting piled on year after year.

Javascript helped popularize functional programming, and now you have elements of it being added to Java and C#. Languages like Java, C++ and C# had class-based inheritance right out the gate, while Javascript had prototypal inheritance. Since most people know class-based inheritance, Javascript is now getting class-based syntax with ES6. JS never had a module system before, but now it has a module/import system coming. Before, there were only function-scoped variables, but now you have block scoped variables with the 'let' keyword'. These features are a benefit to the language, but they do make it more complicated. PHP used to be procedural, but they eventually grafted on OO onto it.

You don't have to know all of these features to make programs, process data or whatever you decide to do, but sooner or later, you're going to have to learn a lot of them, especially since they will be cropping up in other people's code that you will probably have to interact with. Learning the language prior to the addition of all of these features made them a bit easier to grasp. Cracking open a 400 page book that covered most of the language's features and common libraries is much less intimidating than cracking open a 1,000 page book that is now needed due to all the extra features.

 

[CriticalThought]

Are there any brehs who could build a nice website? I haven't programmed since college and my skills are weak. But I'm trying to put together a website and have it link certain capabilities to cell phones also. If interested let me know and we can work out the details to make this happen. I'm serious, no games, let me know please.

 

[Data-Hawk]

www.amazon.com/Mythical-Man-Month-Software-Engineering-Anniversary/dp/0201835959

I hear this book recommended often

Yeah, I bought this book but haven't read it yet. Back when John Carmack was implementing the quake 2 or Quake 3 engine he blogged about this book..

It's like a 20 year old blog now, but I recommend reading his blogs around that time. very informal. I'll drop a link when I'm on a PC.

I also recommend reading the book "Masters of Doom" it's about the startup of Id software and shows just how far ahead he was of everybody else. Back when 1 man could write an AAA game engine.

 

[Data-Hawk]

John Carmack .Plan items.. This should really motivate you

A lot of it is just change logs.. Note its about 15-20 years old

http://floodyberry.com/carmack/plan.html


From reading the masters of doom book, all his co-workers say the thing that really set him apart was his "focus". Like one time the office had a stripper party and he was upset because he wanted everybody to focus on the game( I think it was Doom 2 ) and the girls were getting in the way of his coding.

 

[kevm3]

John Carmack .Plan items.. This should really motivate you

A lot of it is just change logs.. Note its about 15-20 years old

http://floodyberry.com/carmack/plan.html


From reading the masters of doom book, all his co-workers say the thing that really set him apart was his "focus". Like one time the office had a stripper party and he was upset because he wanted everybody to focus on the game( I think it was Doom 2 ) and the girls were getting in the way of his coding.

I found a list on reddit of recommended programming books by some of the programmers on blizzard

http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/1fezrk/jay_baxter_gives_a_list_of_books_for_people_who/

 

[Data-Hawk]

I found a list on reddit of recommended programming books by some of the programmers on blizzard

http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/1fezrk/jay_baxter_gives_a_list_of_books_for_people_who/

Thanks Breh. Yeah I use to read over the Gem books back around when Halo first came out. Those books are truly meant for people who program games for a living.

Side note: Brehs whatever dream program you plan on creating, not to be clichie , but just do it. Seriously, I think a lot of times we over think things and think "I should learn such and such, wait until I become proficient" The fact of the matter is, you'll never be capable of writing x program until you actual write X program. For example, when doing game dev , I'll start out, get stuck somewhere , back track and go learn something else and the project never see's the light of day.

If the program is not for a client, and only you'll be working on it. Who Cares about the design in the beginning? Get something up and running, make a Youtube or blog and track your progress. For 2015 I'm going to use Facebook Motto , " Move fast and break things"

"Done is better than perfect", this is probably the one thing that has kept me from publishing a game. I get so caught up on the design that it never sees the light of day ( Should I use interfaces vs Delegates , this works but doesn't make sense ) Of course at work i'm "forced" to write code lol. Fact of the matter is, no matter how good you are. Your program is going to be shytty at first . I remember when Doom was first open sourced and John Carmack was criticized because his code looked shytty in some places and there were easier ways of doing things, Later on he said he didn't understand how to do x and x so he came up with inefficient ways of doing it. Yet he was riding around in Ferraris because of that code.

So to stay true to this. Here's a screenshot of my FPS( using placeholder models )

I plan on doing all the models myself ( these were free..lol ) Hopefully i can finish the particle code by Thursday and post a youtube video.

 

[Sane]

Thanks Breh. Yeah I use to read over the Gem books back around when Halo first came out. Those books are truly meant for people who program games for a living.

Side note: Brehs whatever dream program you plan on creating, not to be clichie , but just do it. Seriously, I think a lot of times we over think things and think "I should learn such and such, wait until I become proficient" The fact of the matter is, you'll never be capable of writing x program until you actual write X program. For example, when doing game dev , I'll start out, get stuck somewhere , back track and go learn something else and the project never see's the light of day.

If the program is not for a client, and only you'll be working on it. Who Cares about the design in the beginning? Get something up and running, make a Youtube or blog and track your progress. For 2015 I'm going to use Facebook Motto , " Move fast and break things"

"Done is better than perfect", this is probably the one thing that has kept me from publishing a game. I get so caught up on the design that it never sees the light of day ( Should I use interfaces vs Delegates , this works but doesn't make sense ) Of course at work i'm "forced" to write code lol. Fact of the matter is, no matter how good you are. Your program is going to be shytty at first . I remember when Doom was first open sourced and John Carmack was criticized because his code looked shytty in some places and there were easier ways of doing things, Later on he said he didn't understand how to do x and x so he came up with inefficient ways of doing it. Yet he was riding around in Ferraris because of that code.

So to stay true to this. Here's a screenshot of my FPS( using placeholder models )

I plan on doing all the models myself ( these were free..lol ) Hopefully i can finish the particle code by Thursday and post a youtube video.

That was inspirational breh

 

[Data-Hawk]

That was inspirational breh

Yeah Bruh. I wrote down " Move fast and break things" on a piece of paper and just read it everyday.

http://www.doomworld.com/interviews/int7.shtml

Doomworld: As you moved onto more advanced 3D engines, what programming experiences from working with the doom source did you take with you to help solve the new problems you faced?

Carmack:
Mostly, its humbling to look back at work from five years ago. The polar coordinate stuff was because I wasn't comfortable with general line clipping at the time. The sprite insertion was clearly non-optimal. The collision detection could have been handled far more elegantly. There was just so much that I didn't know or understand. I'm sure it will be the same way looking back five years from now.