So...what SHOULD Democrats be doing right now?

[Hood Critic]

How are they going to get any of that thru the Senate? Much less without it getting overturned by SCOTUS.

SCOTUS isn't getting involved in any of those 3.

- On gun reform, focus strictly on raising the age to 21.
- Student loans forgiveness can be don via executive order
- They'll have to get creative here, again keeping the legislation to a couple of specific points.

The overall perception is that the democrats don't get anything done. They have to start breaking their agendas down into manageable pieces that can be effectively communicated and easier to push through both chambers.

 

[wire28]

I'm not seeing a lot of actual solutions or suggestions on what they should do differently in this thread so far.

Welcome to HL.

 

[dtownreppin214]

Welcome to HL.

Dems have one reconciliation package left to use? I would offer Manchin coal tax incentives and funding for black lung disease to get the child tax credit extension and the cap on insulin in that bill. Two simple items that are popular with the public. On top of that cancel 10k in student loans, offer another 10k if people do some type of community service for a year, and spend the next 5 months painting the Republicans as the party of baby killers and handmaids.

 

[acri1]

SCOTUS isn't getting involved in any of those 3.

- On gun reform, focus strictly on raising the age to 21.
- Student loans forgiveness can be don via executive order
- They'll have to get creative here, again keeping the legislation to a couple of specific points.

The overall perception is that the democrats don't get anything done. They have to start breaking their agendas down into manageable pieces that can be effectively communicated and easier to push through both chambers.

SCOTUS definitely could (and probably would) get involved and try to overturn any gun control law they don't like.

Supreme Court may soon loosen gun laws as nation reels from massacres | CNN Politics

While the Supreme Court has been working behind closed doors on its first major Second Amendment opinion in more than a decade, three mass shootings have broken the country, including Tuesday's massacre of 19 schoolchildren in Texas.

www.cnn.com

And I very highly doubt you could get enough Republicans onboard to raise the minimum age to buy a gun.

 

[acri1]

Dems have one reconciliation package left to use? I would offer Manchin coal tax incentives and funding for black lung disease to get the child tax credit extension and the cap on insulin in that bill. Two simple items that are popular with the public. On top of that cancel 10k in student loans, offer another 10k if people do some type of community service for a year, and spend the next 5 months painting the Republicans as baby killers.

Even assuming that would work on Manchin (which I doubt to be honest) what do you do about Sinema?

My reading is that they don't WANT to pass anything, so trying to bribe them is probably pointless and may make the Dems look even weaker.

 

[Hood Critic]

SCOTUS definitely could (and probably would) get involved and try to overturn any gun control law they don't like.

Supreme Court may soon loosen gun laws as nation reels from massacres | CNN Politics

While the Supreme Court has been working behind closed doors on its first major Second Amendment opinion in more than a decade, three mass shootings have broken the country, including Tuesday's massacre of 19 schoolchildren in Texas.

www.cnn.com

And I very highly doubt you could get enough Republicans onboard to raise the minimum age to buy a gun.

You don't need all Republicans, you need enough to get it across the finish line. That's a common sense and simple measure that has precedent in the tobacco and alcohol industry.

Where it dies is when the Dems attempt to tie too much to one piece of legislation through short sightedness. Their belief is that they have limited attempts to make things happen so they're trying to get as much done at one time. Rather than thinking strategically in the fact that having a long list of legislative accomplishments buys more good will with voters that will ultimately give them the majority they'll need later to accomplish more at once.

Singularly focused legislation takes longer but it takes away the excuses Manchin and Republicans have for standing in the way of more comprehensive legislative proposals. They can't focus on specific language of a minor piece of the legislation to tank an entire bill, which removes the cover of their typical no votes. Its the strategy Dems should have used with both voting rights and BBB.

 

[dtownreppin214]

Even assuming that would work on Manchin (which I doubt to be honest) what do you do about Sinema?

My reading is that they don't WANT to pass anything, so trying to bribe them is probably pointless and may make the Dems look even weaker.

I could be wrong but I feel like that bytch is following Manchin's lead. Yes, it's a 50/50 proposition , but you asked what should they do...they have to try to court Manchin with one or two popular agenda items.

 

[RAX 010]

 

[acri1]

You don't need all Republicans, you need enough to get it across the finish line. That's a common sense and simple measure that has precedent in the tobacco and alcohol industry.

Where it dies is when the Dems attempt to tie too much to one piece of legislation through short sightedness. Their belief is that they have limited attempts to make things happen so they're trying to get as much done at one time. Rather than thinking strategically in the fact that having a long list of legislative accomplishments buys more good will with voters that will ultimately give them the majority they'll need later to accomplish more at once.

Singularly focused legislation takes longer but it takes away the excuses Manchin and Republicans have for standing in the way of more comprehensive legislative proposals. They can't focus on specific language of a minor piece of the legislation to tank an entire bill, which removes the cover of their typical no votes. Its the strategy Dems should have used with both voting rights and BBB.

This seems pretty naive.

You may not need all Republicans, but you need some of them (along with Manchin/Sinema) which you're not going to get. McConnell is not letting any sort of gun control legislation through the Senate, period.


It seems like you're misunderstanding Republican motives. It doesn't matter how you word the legislation or if you make it singularly focused. That's irrelevant. They don't want Democrats to get a W so they aren't going to pass anything. It's really that simple.

 

[CrushedGroove]

This isn't on Progressives. If you win a Presidency that the other side attempts a coup against, and barely squeak out a 50+1 Senate, you hold your party's feet to the fire for all those people that came out in DROVES to vote for you.

fukk all the niceties and unwritten rules of respect. You know what the right direction is for the country, do what is in the power the people gave you and get that shyt done.

 

[Hood Critic]

This seems pretty naive.

You may not need all Republicans, but you need some of them (along with Manchin/Sinema) which you're not going to get. McConnell is not letting any sort of gun control legislation through the Senate, period.


It seems like you're misunderstanding Republican motives. It doesn't matter how you word the legislation or if you make it singularly focused. That's irrelevant. They don't want Democrats to get a W so they aren't going to pass anything. It's really that simple.

I need you to take your normal glass half empty glasses off for 2 mins. I'm neither naive nor do I have any issues understanding GOP motives.

What you seem to be missing is that the gun control conversation is not one the GOP wants to have this close to midterms or any election because that means the recent massacres are fresh in the public's mind and that's not good for them politically. Raising the legal age to purchase a weapon is one of the more favorable control options across the board - because it aligns with current precedent. And its one the GOP would be much more in favor of so they can get back to blaming the administration for everything else under the sun. You don't have to take my word for it:

Nearly three-quarters of people, 72%, support the idea of raising the legal age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old. The gunman in Uvalde was 18 years old and legally purchased two semi-automatic rifles and 375 rounds of ammunition days before the shooting.

Factbox: Americans favor changing gun laws, even if Congress may not act

The massacre at a Uvalde, Texas, elementary school that killed 19 children and two teachers this week has once again spurred calls for Congress to act to stem U.S. gun violence, including from Democratic Senator Chris Murphy and President Joe Biden.

www.reuters.com

Trump himself even raised the idea after the Parkland shooting in 2018

THE PRESIDENT: You’re going to be a great help. Thanks, Chuck.

I’d just like to ask Joe and Pat. In your bill, what are you doing about the 18 to 21?

SENATOR MANCHIN: We didn’t —

SENATOR TOOMEY: No change to that.

THE PRESIDENT: Okay. Are you going to leave that?

So you have a case right now where somebody can buy a handgun at 21. Now, this is not a popular thing to say, in terms of the NRA. But I’m saying it anyway. I’m going to just have to say it. But you can’t buy — I mean, think of it. You can buy a handgun — you can’t buy one; you have to wait until you’re 21. But you can buy the kind of weapon used in the school shooting at 18. I think it’s something you have to think about.

SENATOR MANCHIN: It’s a no-brainer.

Remarks by President Trump, Vice President Pence, and Bipartisan Members of Congress in Meeting on School and Community Safety – The White House

trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov

 

[acri1]

This isn't on Progressives. If you win a Presidency that the other side attempts a coup against, and barely squeak out a 50+1 Senate, you hold your party's feet to the fire for all those people that came out in DROVES to vote for you.

fukk all the niceties and unwritten rules of respect. You know what the right direction is for the country, do what is in the power the people gave you and get that shyt done.

So what do they do about Manchin and Sinema?

Saying "hold your party's feet to the fire" isn't really a course of action. They're corrupt and won't budge regardless of pressure from other Dems.

 

[acri1]

I need you to take your normal glass half empty glasses off for 2 mins. I'm neither naive nor do I have any issues understanding GOP motives.

What you seem to be missing is that the gun control conversation is not one the GOP wants to have this close to midterms or any election because that means the recent massacres are fresh in the public's mind and that's not good for them politically. Raising the legal age to purchase a weapon is one of the more favorable control options across the board - because it aligns with current precedent. And its one the GOP would be much more in favor of so they can get back to blaming the administration for everything else under the sun. You don't have to take my word for it:

Factbox: Americans favor changing gun laws, even if Congress may not act

The massacre at a Uvalde, Texas, elementary school that killed 19 children and two teachers this week has once again spurred calls for Congress to act to stem U.S. gun violence, including from Democratic Senator Chris Murphy and President Joe Biden.

www.reuters.com

Trump himself even raised the idea after the Parkland shooting in 2018

Remarks by President Trump, Vice President Pence, and Bipartisan Members of Congress in Meeting on School and Community Safety – The White House

trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov

The fact that gun control legislation would be popular has never mattered to the GOP in the past, so I don't see why it would now.

We've seen how this plays out. There's enough time until the midterms that they can just dogwhistle/complain about inflation and by the time election day rolls around the issue won't be front and center anymore. I highly doubt anything on guns is passing the Senate regardless of what gets proposed.


Maybe it'd be good to make Republicans vote against it anyway, but I just don't see them doing so having any real political consequences.

 

[mastermind]

So what do they do about Manchin and Sinema?

Saying "hold your party's feet to the fire" isn't really a course of action. They're corrupt and won't budge regardless of pressure from other Dems.

then start fighting corruption with dirt. I'd be running ads that talk about how Manchin has fukked over workers.

Manchin got mad when VP Harris was in WVa talking about BBB, keep doing that. Same with Sinema. Let people know Republicans are the problem, and those two are helping the Republicans.

 

[OperationNumbNutts]

the democrats should be talking about the fact that republicans hate america, and hate democracy

they should be talking about the fact that you cant win a republican primary without repeating the pathetic, un-american lie that donald trump really won in 2020

they should be talking about how republicans are the party of enabling school shootings, and forcing rape victims to have their rapist's babies

Talking about Trump isn't going to work for them anymore. Heck....January 6th is already an after thought.