So instead of figuring out why teachers are leaving, Arizona said screw it. AZ no longer requires a degree to teach students.

[dora_da_destroyer]

I agree with your statement in the abstract. However, I don't think that increasing the teacher pool by lowering the standards solves any of the systemic problems creating the teacher shortage, and it could in fact merely further lower the societal prestige of a teaching job.

agreed, but public education is so broken from all the things shogun already listed, that i'm somewhat ambivalent to what removing BA's from the mix will do. i'd honestly take a teacher with a HS diploma and teaching credential who has a passion for teaching over a the masters holder who "gives up" 3 years into the job and happily paints by numbers to get their kids to skate by, but that's the performance our governments encourage.

 

[Shogun]

I didn't realize I was preaching.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

I agree with your statement in the abstract. However, I don't think that increasing the teacher pool by lowering the standards solves any of the systemic problems creating the teacher shortage, and it could in fact merely further lower the societal prestige of a teaching job.

This is very based. Stalin would approve.

Republicans are the new Soviets

 

[Professor Emeritus]

agreed, but public education is so broken from all the things shogun already listed, that i'm somewhat ambivalent to what removing BA's from the mix will do. i'd honestly take a teacher with a HS diploma and teaching credential who has a passion for teaching over a the masters holder who "gives up" 3 years into the job and happily paints by numbers to get their kids to skate by, but that's the performance our governments encourage.

That's a manufactured dilemma. First off, there is no such thing as "HS diploma and teaching credential". These people have fulfilled literally none of the requirements for an actual teaching credential, they're just given an "emergency credential" entirely off the strength of being enrolled in college. They ain't going to get their teaching credential until years into their career, after they complete their college degree AND a ton of other work past that. Many of them will likely quit the profession before they ever get it. But now they'll be teaching in the classroom solely off the strength of being current college students.

Second, in your hypothetical dilemma why would you know a priori that the masters teacher would give up but the high school diploma would stick it out? If you have to choose between them in a vacuum, the person with the master's degree has already proven they can stick something out and continue to work over the course of years, which the high school diploma hasn't.

And as someone who actually got a masters in teacher education and knows people enrolled in current programs, the quality of teacher education could be improved but it is NOT the first, second, or even top ten reason that school quality suffers. Teacher education programs are generally far better than the on-the-job education offered by administrators. The issue is that teachers go through their formal education learning one set of values, but then get into the classroom and are forced by state laws and administrators to do something entirely different than what they were taught to do.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

That's a manufactured dilemma. First off, there is no such thing as "HS diploma and teaching credential". These people have fulfilled literally none of the requirements for an actual teaching credential, they're just given an "emergency credential" entirely off the strength of being enrolled in college. They ain't going to get their teaching credential until years into their career, after they complete their college degree AND a ton of other work past that. Many of them will likely quit the profession before they ever get it. But now they'll be teaching in the classroom solely off the strength of being current college students.

Second, in your hypothetical dilemma why would you know a priori that the masters teacher would give up but the high school diploma would stick it out? If you have to choose between them in a vacuum, the person with the master's degree has already proven they can stick something out and continue to work over the course of years, which the high school diploma hasn't.

And as someone who actually got a masters in teacher education and knows people enrolled in current programs, the quality of teacher education could be improved but it is NOT the first, second, or even top ten reason that school quality suffers. Teacher education programs are generally far better than the on-the-job education offered by administrators. The issue is that teachers go through their formal education learning one set of values, but then get into the classroom and are forced by state laws and administrators to do something entirely different than what they were taught to do.

Breh, I wasn’t presenting this as a case of what will happen, just given a choice between those two, I’d choose the HS grad. Simply illustrating that to me, a teacher with passion for their role matters more to me than a college degree.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Breh, I wasn’t presenting this as a case of what will happen, just given a choice between those two, I’d choose the HS grad. Simply illustrating that to me, a teacher with passion for their role matters more to me than a college degree.

Which is a beautiful inspirational quote for you to hang over your desk, but since you're not offering any pathway to find or create this passion for teaching, it doesn't add anything to the discussion. I'm really hoping for positive contributions as to what will advance us from this point rather than tired criticisms of those who are currently teaching.

The current measures will put teachers in the classroom who are younger, less prepared, and who will have greater distractions on their plate driven by the need to complete their college degree in addition to getting a credential in addition to teaching. The burnout rate will assuredly be higher than it already is, which means they'll only make their future problems even worse.

 

[Eddie_1100]

you sure told him off @Rhakim !

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Which is a beautiful inspirational quote for you to hang over your desk, but since you're not offering any pathway to find or create this passion for teaching, it doesn't add anything to the discussion. I'm really hoping for positive contributions as to what will advance us from this point rather than tired criticisms of those who are currently teaching.

The current measures will put teachers in the classroom who are younger, less prepared, and who will have greater distractions on their plate driven by the need to complete their college degree in addition to getting a credential in addition to teaching. The burnout rate will assuredly be higher than it already is, which means they'll only make their future problems even worse.

Ok

 

[Hood Critic]

agreed, but public education is so broken from all the things shogun already listed, that i'm somewhat ambivalent to what removing BA's from the mix will do. i'd honestly take a teacher with a HS diploma and teaching credential who has a passion for teaching over a the masters holder who "gives up" 3 years into the job and happily paints by numbers to get their kids to skate by, but that's the performance our governments encourage.

Passion equally, like a degree, doesn't make you a great teacher . But the combination make for more ideal teachers.

This law does nothing but exacerbate the current issues in the education system. But most importantly, it certainly will lead to less actual learning especially in the foundational years. Putting more bodies in schools who aren't capable of anything other than regurgitating information for standardized test prep is not the way to solve a teacher shortage.

Homeschool and private education numbers will skyrocket and public education funding will ultimately decrease because those same parents won't want to pay into the public education system they aren't using. Kids who have to attend public school will be the victims of yet another social service being cannibalized by good old fashion capitalism.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Passion equally, like a degree, doesn't make you a great teacher . But the combination make for more ideal teachers.

This law does nothing but exacerbate the current issues in the education system. But most importantly, it certainly will lead to less actual learning especially in the foundational years. Putting more bodies in schools who aren't capable of anything other than regurgitating information for standardized test prep is not the way to solve a teacher shortage.

Homeschool and private education numbers will skyrocket and public education funding will ultimately decrease because those same parents won't want to pay into the public education system they aren't using. Kids who have to attend public school will be the victims of yet another social service being cannibalized by good old fashion capitalism.

Kids straight out of college do just this

And I think y’all are confusing my statement with being ok sending a kid from HS graduation to teacher that following fall. No, I’m fine with removing the stipulation of a BA as there are other ways to learn the art of teaching, the way teachers did for hundreds of years before college became commonplace. 2 yr teaching programs or vocational training/teaching credentials/an AA, etc are all paths that can equip HS grads for teaching. A BA (or MA) should be reserved for HS teachers that specialize in a subject.

As for a rush to pull kids out of school, that comes from a rapid decline in school quality (which already exists on a whole), but I don’t believe not requiring a BA leads to that, requiring no training or other vetting does.

My original comment was not in agreeance with this AZ proposal verbatim - sending HS kids into classrooms as they attend college - it is agreeing with the general premise that a bachelors could be removed as a requirement and successfully open up a new talent pool. Finally, to further clarify where I’m coming from - our education system is fukked well beyond the degree teachers do or don’t hold, I don’t see removing a bachelors requirement as the variable that most notably affects education in either direction. Politics, standardized testing, equitable funding, teaching style/philosophy all need to be addressed first.

 

[Slim]

We rank damn near dead last in education


This will surely fix it

 

[Maxine Shaw]

Breh, I wasn’t presenting this as a case of what will happen, just given a choice between those two, I’d choose the HS grad. Simply illustrating that to me, a teacher with passion for their role matters more to me than a college degree.

Summa y'all watch waaaay too many Hollywood movies and think that's what teaching is about.

It's one thing to be in an alternative certification program in teaching while you are earning your credentials - those programs require a college degree and VERY intense coursework followed by an internship (most of them unpaid). But these morons are talking about putting putting people with high school diplomas in the classroom to teach full-time. How are these "teachers" supposed to finish their classes and teach at the same time?! Just more evidence that teaching as profession is completely disrespected.

 

[Ozymandeas]

Summa y'all watch waaaay too many Hollywood movies and think that's what teaching is about.

It's one thing to be in an alternative certification program in teaching while you are earning your credentials - those programs require a college degree and VERY intense coursework followed by an internship (most of them unpaid). But these morons are talking about putting putting people with high school diplomas in the classroom to teach full-time. How are these "teachers" supposed to finish their classes and teach at the same time?! Just more evidence that teaching as profession is completely disrespected.

IDK how I feel about it yet but, this sounds like an overreaction. They're not dumb. They're not going to have a fresh high school grad teaching high school. They'll probably put them in kindergarten or elementary school and lets be honest, anybody can do that.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

IDK how I feel about it yet but, this sounds like an overreaction. They're not dumb. They're not going to have a fresh high school grad teaching high school. They'll probably put them in kindergarten or elementary school and lets be honest, anybody can do that.

This sort of complete disrespect for how difficult teaching is and how much preparation and training it requires is a big part of the reason that the quality of education has fallen so far in America.

 

[Maxine Shaw]

They'll probably put them in kindergarten or elementary school and lets be honest, anybody can do that.

Oh, my holy God... nikkas that can't tell a grapheme from a phoneme STAY saying dumb shyt.