So instead of figuring out why teachers are leaving, Arizona said screw it. AZ no longer requires a degree to teach students.

[Anerdyblackguy]

Arizona educators can start teaching while finishing degree under new law​

Students attend class on the second to last day of school in New York City. Photo: Michael Loccisano/Getty Images


Arizona educators can begin teaching in public schools while still earning a college degree under a new state law signed by Gov. Doug Ducey on Tuesday.
The big picture: The new law, which aims to alleviate the state's teacher shortage, is one of a number of the drastic measures states are taking to ease the general labor shortage.
Driving the news: Under the Arizona law, people can start and finish their training to become a teacher while also working on their college degree.

• As noted by a local CBS station, this means that Arizona educators only need to be enrolled in a degree program to begin teaching in schools.

What they're saying: Ducey said in a news release that the law was aimed at giving public schools greater options to recruit educators.

• This legislation "will ensure that more Arizonans have the opportunity to pursue a career in education and help get our kids caught up," Ducey said. "Arizona families know the importance of this effort — teachers are critical to our kids’ success today and well into their future."

Background: Almost a third of teacher positions in Arizona were vacant as of January, according to a survey from the Arizona School Personnel Administrators Association.

• Another 48% of teacher positions were filled by people "not meeting standard teacher requirements," the study found.
• The state's superintendent has also expressed concerns that there will not be sufficient teachers for the next school year, according to a Phoenix radio station.

 

[Shogun]

If this were handled with some sort of thoughtfulness it could be beneficial to teachers, but I doubt that will be the case.
And, there isn't much the government can do to "raise levels of respect" for teachers. That's a cultural problem that's past the point of no return, I think.
As for raising compensation, that's a local issue. Teacher pay is only as high as the local budget can afford, and the community votes directly on that. You could make the argument that if people weren't struggling economically that school budgets would increase, but that's a big if. And, its unlikely that increase would go to teachers. It would probably go to some sort of "mental health administrator" who wont accomplish a damn thing but add a nice sounding bullet-point to a politician's resume.

Spoiler: loosely related rant

The only thing I could reasonably see politicians do that could raise respect for teaching is stop making schools/teachers responsible for solving all the country's problems - its lazy and dishonest, but unfortunately it works politically. In the past ten years public schools have been made responsible for solving: lack of "life skills", global warming, racism, sexism, poverty, student mental health issues, drug problems, mass shooting problems, covid, culture wars, etc. Meanwhile it's a struggle everyday just to get them off of their phones and to remove their earbuds...we certainly aren't shaping their world view. The larger culture they digest is, and, by and large, that larger culture is reinforcing that they have no reason to respect or listen to their teachers. shyt, at the beginning of last year one of our largest problems was kids destroying the bathrooms and stealing random shyt for tik tok cool points.

I do think higher pay would draw more qualified candidates, but it wouldn't happen immediately. The politician(s) behind such a move would need it to happen immediately for their reelection campaign, though, so the whole process would be instantly corrupted.

 

[sjankis630]

Wait so their teachers are leaving because the govt is interfering in the classroom or are their schools just that bad?

 

[Shogun]

Wait so their teachers are leaving because the govt is interfering in the classroom or are their schools just that bad?

I would guess it's a combination of low pay, parents from across the political spectrum insisting that their politics be preached, disrespect from students and parents, unrealistic demands from politicians and the public at large, and covid conditions.

 

[Jx2]

Raise your kids to be dumb in a state who's climate resembles Arrakis from Dune brehs

 

[AVO]

Can't wait until this stupid nikka is outta here in January

 

[Professor Emeritus]

As for raising compensation, that's a local issue. Teacher pay is only as high as the local budget can afford, and the community votes directly on that. You could make the argument that if people weren't struggling economically that school budgets would increase, but that's a big if. And, its unlikely that increase would go to teachers. It would probably go to some sort of "mental health administrator" who wont accomplish a damn thing but add a nice sounding bullet-point to a politician's resume.

The issue is a massive modern disconnect between the financial situation of the average person and the financial situation of the locus of the money. The more that wealth is concentrated among the wealthiest, the worse off the middle class is, which leads to the middle class being unwilling to fund largescale public initiatives due to their own struggles even though the wealthiest now have the vast majority of excess wealth from which such initiatives could be funded.

When wealth is better distributed, people are also far more willing to direct more money to social causes. This is one of the main reasons government social safety nets have far more support in many European countries than they do here.

I do think salaries should be higher because they need to be competitive with the private sector. A good math/science teacher is just as important to society as a CS programmer or engineer or actuary or whatever that person would be doing otherwise, but it doesn't pay even close to as much. So salaries are important. But it's more than just salary, as I outlined above.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I would guess it's a combination of low pay, parents from across the political spectrum insisting that their politics be preached, disrespect from students and parents, unrealistic demands from politicians and the public at large, and covid conditions.

All true, you're missing a demeaning focus on preset syllabi and standardized testing, lack of productive systems in place to handle student discipline issues, and lack of respect from administrators due to rigid top-down management structure.

High degrees of racial and economic segregation (meaning that many schools have all the worst societal problems while also being in places no teacher wants to live) is also a big factor. In many districts you'll have one school that gets 25 applicants for each open position while a school across town has positions that remain open the entire year with no qualified candidates. So overall the district looks like it has a teacher shortage, but in reality the shortage only impacts certain schools while available qualified candidates would prefer to keep driving Uber until a position at the school they really want opens.

 

[88m3]

heartbreaking

 

[Professor Emeritus]

If I were trying to start this from scratch, I would start a recruitment drive for "master teachers", with the necessary supplementary funding coming from the state. Brainstorm some principles off the top of my head.

* A "master teacher" program could be implemented by any school with a chronic teacher shortage, in each subject area where that shortage persisted. So if Phoenix Unified had a shortage in the poor schools but not in the rich schools, only the poor schools could implement the program. If there were shortages in science but not in English, then only a science program would be implemented. Perhaps this could change in the future if shyt worked well, but that's how I would start.


* A candidate for "Master Teacher" would have to get a Bachelor's degree in a subject matter field and graduate in the top 40% of the class. Not because you need that level to be a teacher, but in order to demonstrate commitment to excellence as well as raise the societal prestige of the position. If you want this position, you have to show you can get those grades up there. (Potentially exemptions could be appealed for on an individual basis at certain top-rate universities with especially competitive student bodies, if a Caltech or Harvard student wanted to apply.)


* Qualified candidates would then receive state-backed loans for a full ride to qualified teacher education programs in order to gain certification and a master's degree in education. Only the most respectable teacher ed programs would qualify - online and for-profit schools would be barred automatically.


* For the first 10 years, master teachers would be on the same pay scale as other teachers, but they wouldn't have to pay back any of their student loans. Both the loans for the grad program as well as any government-backed loans for undergrad would be placed on hold. So in terms of salary they're equal to their colleagues, but their personal financial situation will be secured.


* Master teachers would be given greater autonomy in the classroom. After a certain initial proving-period of 2 years to ensure they were qualified (perhaps with a state credentialling program to which they would refer lesson plans and get performance evaluations from the on-site admin), the master teachers would be allowed to design their own syllabus and procure their own textbooks. They would be free to introduce cross-disciplinary projects and collaborate with other teachers on their own initiative.


* After 10 years, if the master teacher has remained in the classroom this entire time and passed all performance reviews, all school loans would be fully forgiven. They would be permanently credentialled as a "master teacher" and receive a permanent 10% salary bump above the regular payscale.


The basic point of this program is to funnel more and higher-quality candidates into the teaching pipeline, increase the social prestige of the teaching position, and get them to stay on the job for more than 3-4 years. So many high-quality teachers leave before they've reached five years on the job. A single great teacher who stays 30-40 years is worth far more than eight teachers who only stayed 4-5.



Like I said, start this program in the areas of greatest need, see if it produces higher-quality teaching candidates who actually stay on the job, and then expand from there if it works. Perhaps one day all the teachers would be master teacher (which is basically the case in Finland, where only those who graduate in the top 1/3 of their university class are allowed to become teachers and ALL of them have the high degree of autonomy that I've described here).

 

[Shogun]

^^^
In my experience, parents, and BOE members have far more control than the federal or state governments. They demand their kid gets straight A's hard enough, they're going to get it. They demand a certain curriculum, they're going to get it. They vote down the budget every negotiation cycle, the budget will go down. All of which, I agree, are demeaning to the role of teachers.

As for autonomy, how can the government ensure that if the population, at large, doesn't want that? Are state BOE representatives going to show up when Jonny's mom has called every day for the past week threatening to sue if he doesn't get that final A to make high honors? Are they going to foot the legal fees? Not likely. Are state representatives and state police going to intervene when Billy's dad told him he doesn't have to do that libtard's homework assignment, and has come to every BOE meeting to intimidate people? Nope. It's the district's problem...and they dont have the will, ability, or resources to stand up to it. So, it falls on teachers...who are fleeing in droves.

Is it possible for America to achieve the kinds of social cohesion that Finland has? I hope so, but I gotta say....it doesn't look too good at the moment. At least from what I'm seeing. There's at least a reasonable chance that the ridiculous racist clown is going to make his return as president, and racism is his greatest political asset. Culturally we're obsessed with individual identity and every way that we're different. It seems to me that we're racing in the opposite direction as Finland. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that Finland is also one of the most culturally homogeneous countries in Europe. Chinas another. Also a great education system. Japan, South Korea, etc.

Oh, and I appreciate your point about the modern financial disconnect. Wealth inequality contributes a ton to this. It's not just poor districts that are going to shyt, though....the wealthy districts are just able to hide it better.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

my reply in the TLR thread...

I’m torn, America has a terrible educational system/way of teaching, the majority of our colleges are trash anyway so it’s not like these people are guaranteed to be intelligent just because they got a piece of paper, and college degrees don’t guarantee a teacher is good or actually cares…I don’t think it should be removed but degrees aren’t currently guaranteeing any type of standards in public education/teaching

 

[Professor Emeritus]

^^^
In my experience, parents, and BOE members have far more control than the federal or state governments. They demand their kid gets straight A's hard enough, they're going to get it. They demand a certain curriculum, they're going to get it. They vote down the budget every negotiation cycle, the budget will go down. All of which, I agree, are demeaning to the role of teachers.

There are huge testing and syllabus requirements demanded by the state governments, in addition to federal incentives like NCLB. Such initiatives drive demand at the lower levels. If Bush had backed a huge education imitative in 2003 that devalued testing, the tide would have gone in that direction. But his strong push of testing caused numerous states to go even harder, and the individual districts can't defy state rules on those things.

Not to sat that education boards and the parents that influence them don't wield control as well. And I agree that overall local leadership has more influence than state/federal leadership. We should work to change state/federal policy AND local policy.

As for autonomy, how can the government ensure that if the population, at large, doesn't want that?

I've seen zero indications that the population at large doesn't want their local teachers to teach with autonomy. Polling consistently shows the general public has a high regard for their own students' teachers. In my experience as a public school teacher I found that insistence of ultra-specific curriculum and top-down authoritative control was virtually always driven by the state, district, and school administration, not by the public. Any new principal hire could dramatically change our level of autonomy in multiple ways (though the lack of autonomy in syllabus and testing remained consistently state-driven).

Are state BOE representatives going to show up when Jonny's mom has called every day for the past week threatening to sue if he doesn't get that final A to make high honors? Are they going to foot the legal fees?

WTH are you talking about? This has literally nothing to do with the type of autonomy I am talking about, and is almost exclusively an issue in wealthier areas, not the poorer schools struggling to hire teachers. In all my years teaching I never once was threatened with a lawsuit nor did I ever hear of any other teachers threatened with lawsuits at any of my schools. I can only recall two incidents where I was even asked to change a grade and both of them tried merely to convince me in a single meeting and didn't go beyond that.

Not likely. Are state representatives and state police going to intervene when Billy's dad told him he doesn't have to do that libtard's homework assignment, and has come to every BOE meeting to intimidate people? Nope. It's the district's problem...and they dont have the will, ability, or resources to stand up to it.

Seriously breh, Billy's dad is not the issue that 99.9% of public school teachers are worried about.

Is it possible for America to achieve the kinds of social cohesion that Finland has? I hope so, but I gotta say....it doesn't look too good at the moment. At least from what I'm seeing. There's at least a reasonable chance that the ridiculous racist clown is going to make his return as president, and racism is his greatest political asset. Culturally we're obsessed with individual identity and every way that we're different. It seems to me that we're racing in the opposite direction as Finland. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that Finland is also one of the most culturally homogeneous countries in Europe. Chinas another. Also a great education system. Japan, South Korea, etc.

Oh, and I appreciate your point about the modern financial disconnect. Wealth inequality contributes a ton to this. It's not just poor districts that are going to shyt, though....the wealthy districts are just able to hide it better.

We can offer solutions or we can give up. If you want to give up, then move to Finland. If we fail to offer alternatives than we create a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't see what you're hoping to accomplish by preaching doom and gloom without offering a positive alternative.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

my reply in the TLR thread...

I agree with your statement in the abstract. However, I don't think that increasing the teacher pool by lowering the standards solves any of the systemic problems creating the teacher shortage, and it could in fact merely further lower the societal prestige of a teaching job.

 

[BigMoneyGrip]

Raise your kids to be dumb in a state who's climate resembles Arrakis from Dune brehs