Ryan clark says russell wilson is not a all time great qb

[Street Knowledge]

Bro I didn't say I had a problem using accolades, I said there are guys in thus thread using them to shyt on Russ when guys without certain accomplishments they are ranking higher...

I just said whole body of work, at his best Russ has played like the best player in football. I can go back to his coming out party in 2015 when he ascended as an elite quarterback, up to his play the first half to most of 2020. He certainly isn't without flaw but his entire body of work validates his credibility as an All-Time great...





I said Brees is arguably Rushmore, not set in stone. I personally feel he's the 5th greatest QB ever---->for me it's Brady, Montana, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, with a healthy gap between Manning and Rodgers---->and most QB lists have him in the top 6-7 historically. So yes, he has a case you can make for him as #4 GOAT...

And Dan Marino is overrated as shyt, time has completely swept some of his worst performances and chokes away. He was Rodgers before Rodgers, a regular season assassin who routinely played substandard in the Second Season.



Even if he isn't it's debatable, there haven't been 20 quarterbacks to play the position better in the history of the NFL, and for that matter, there haven't been 20 greater than Wilson either...

So many of us are devaluing that we have grown up in and been able to see the NFL's Golden Age of quarterbacking. The post-2000 NFL has been flooded with All-Time QBs to an unprecedented degree the first 80 years of league history didn't reach...

1.)When was Russ the best player in football? I must have missed this. A 6 game stretch during the 2020 season?

2.)Brees is only “Arguably the 4th best QB” if you think there was no QB from 1920-2020 better than him except the ones from his time(Brady/Manning/Rodgers).

I’m sorry but that’s nonsense

 

[murksiderock]

1.)When was Russ the best player in football? I must have missed this. A 6 game stretch during the 2020 season?

2.)Brees is only “Arguably the 4th best QB” if you think there was no QB from 1920-2020 better than him except the ones from his time(Brady/Manning/Rodgers).

I’m sorry but that’s nonsense

Brees did everything in this league except win an MVP and shoulda won it in '09 or '11 or '13. Yes, I believe he's greater than any OG QB besides Montana, and really the only ones I'd argue are even in contention for his historical place are Unitas, Favre, or Elway...

Yes, I never said Russ ran a full season as the best player, or quarterback, in the NFL. I said at his peak he's looked like it on multiple occasions, that ain't a lie...

 

[premier58]

Brees did everything in this league except win an MVP and shoulda won it in '09 or '11 or '13. Yes, I believe he's greater than any OG QB besides Montana, and really the only ones I'd argue are even in contention for his historical place are Unitas, Favre, or Elway...

Yes, I never said Russ ran a full season as the best player, or quarterback, in the NFL. I said at his peak he's looked like it on multiple occasions, that ain't a lie...

Brees is not better than Brett Favre. Not at all. Or Steve Young.

 

[murksiderock]

Brees is not better than Brett Favre. Not at all. Or Steve Young.

Here's a question: in your opinion, what were the prime years of Brees', Favre's, and Young's careers?

Because Brees was in his prime from at least 2006, until 2018 when he was the leading MVP candidate until he started breaking down physically the last 5 weeks of the season. That's a 13-year run of being an elite, Top 5 QB and looking like the best quarterback in football during multiple stretches in that window...

Even if you thought Young peaked higher than Brees (and correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to favor peak over longevity, right?); even if you think Young peaked higher it certainly is marginal at best---->Brees held his own in an era Manning and Brady and Rodgers were also wrecking shyt, with bursts of dominant stretches and games he looked better than them all, even if he isn't better than them overall...

I'm not so sure I'd give peak to Young, and Brees whips his ass in longevity, Young was an elite quarterback for 6-7 years tops. When the peaks of two guys are in the same ballpark, and one guy's prime of being an elite football player essentially doubles the time the other guy was elite, I don't think that's something you can ignore in these conversations...

Young is overrated not from the standpoint of how great he was at his very best, but in the sense that a)his peak isn't more than marginally higher than any of the other GOAT-tier QBs, and b)all of the GOAT-tier QBs shyt on him longevity-wise---->longevity to me, meaning years as an elite player, not how many total years a guy played. I place a TON of value into how long a guy can sustain elite-level play...

Favre has more of a case vs Brees but Brees was the more efficient passer by a comfortable margin, I think he could also match Favre in explosiveness without as much of a feast or famine nature. But I do think you could make the case for Favre...

 

[premier58]

Here's a question: in your opinion, what were the prime years of Brees', Favre's, and Young's careers?
Favres prime vs 95-04 and Young is 92-98
Because Brees was in his prime from at least 2006, until 2018 when he was the leading MVP candidate until he started breaking down physically the last 5 weeks of the season. That's a 13-year run of being an elite, Top 5 QB and looking like the best quarterback in football during multiple stretches in that window...

Even if you thought Young peaked higher than Brees (and correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to favor peak over longevity, right?); even if you think Young peaked higher it certainly is marginal at best---->Brees held his own in an era Manning and Brady and Rodgers were also wrecking shyt, with bursts of dominant stretches and games he looked better than them all, even if he isn't better than them overall...
Yes you are correct. I do favor peak over longevity. Favres peak was otherworldly. 3 straight MVPs in a loaded league and he also had yards and td totals that werrnt commonplace until the emergence of Warner and Manning.

I'm not so sure I'd give peak to Young, and Brees whips his ass in longevity, Young was an elite quarterback for 6-7 years tops. When the peaks of two guys are in the same ballpark, and one guy's prime of being an elite football player essentially doubles the time the other guy was elite, I don't think that's something you can ignore in these conversations...

Young is overrated not from the standpoint of how great he was at his very best, but in the sense that a)his peak isn't more than marginally higher than any of the other GOAT-tier QBs, and b)all of the GOAT-tier QBs shyt on him longevity-wise---->longevity to me, meaning years as an elite player, not how many total years a guy played. I place a TON of value into how long a guy can sustain elite-level play...

Favre has more of a case vs Brees but Brees was the more efficient passer by a comfortable margin, I think he could also match Favre in explosiveness without as much of a feast or famine nature. But I do think you could make the case for Favre...

Ima get back and finish this later

 

[Based Lord Zedd]

This thread disrespectful and all over the place...


10 years in Russ being no lower than the 25th greatest QB ever, and at best bumping right up near 15th-greatest QB ever, yes nikka. He's an All-Time great quarterback...

There are only 26 modern-era QBs in the hall of fame right now. Obviously not every top 25 all-time QB is in the HOF yet (and there's some sus QBs in the HOF too), but if the 25th best QB of all time, is an all-time great...that means "all time great" is basically synonymous with "hall of famer."

The reason why this thread is all over the place is that some people's definition of "all time great" is basically the same as HOFer, while other people's definition of all-time great is a step above that and closer to what Clark was saying.

 

[JYoung24]

Props for naming them. The bolder are the only ones I have a gripe with. Elway was Donovan McNabb until Terrell Davis arrived. Brees is low key one of the worst all time great playoff QBs and piled records in a dome. And Bradshaw numbers weren’t that good even against his contemporaries.

I would take out Aikman as well and add Steve Young.

Brees is great in the playoffs until his arm gave out

 

[JYoung24]

What the fukk do you mean

Where are you guys coming up with this delusional Russell Wilson overrating from? He was not better than Big Ben and never belonged in the same conversation with Brees, Manning, and Brady.

You act like I compared him to trash. I basically listed some of the best QBs of this era that aren’t elite like Russ.

Hes better then ben

 

[murksiderock]

There are only 26 modern-era QBs in the hall of fame right now. Obviously not every top 25 all-time QB is in the HOF yet (and there's some sus QBs in the HOF too), but if the 25th best QB of all time, is an all-time great...that means "all time great" is basically synonymous with "hall of famer."

The reason why this thread is all over the place is that some people's definition of "all time great" is basically the same as HOFer, while other people's definition of all-time great is a step above that and closer to what Clark was saying.

Oh I agree; Pro Football Hall is a lot more tight on just allowing dudes in, compared to Basketball Hall. My standard is pretty much close to Hall Of Famer, if you aren't a Hall Of Famer, you aren't an All-Time great player...

You can be good for your era, or even occasionally great in your era, but elite throughout your era is what makes you an All-Timer, a Hall Of Famer. Letting Warner in lowered the bar. He had 4 great years in a 12 season career, 5 if you wanna stretch it. He was occasionally great, could be the best in The League at his best, but most of his career he was mediocre to bad...

Kurt Warner is not an All-Time great QB but is in The Hall and can't take it from him. Russell Wilson is better than Kurt Warner, who many people have in their Top 20...

Russ has been an elite QB since 2015, that's more seasons than Warner was an elite QB period. Before he got hurt he was on pace to be right where he's been since 2015, which is below:

2015-20 Russ (6 seasons)
.646 win percentage, 10.3 wins/year Per 16
3-5 playoffs, 5 playoff appearances
2x NFCW champ
'19 2nd Team All-Pro, 5x Pro Bowl
'20 MOY
'15 rtg champ, '17 TD champ
4000-33-9 on 65.7-7.8-102.9 (Per 16)

He was on pace for these same numbers or greater had he not got hurt...

One of the hallmarks of an All-Timer is being able to lead The League in multiple categories at peak. Russ at his best has already led the NFL in touchdown passes and passer rating. He's winning over 10 games a year despite the fact that his prime coincides with the disintegration of Seattle's defense and offensive line, and without Pro Bowl help on offense, much less All-Pro superstar assistance that many other guys get...

He'll be back. Whichever team he's on, he's gonna be back. But nikkas in here wanna say Russell fukking Wilson isn't a Hall Of Fame quarterback. If he was Just A Guy the way guys claim, he wouldn't be able to take a team like Seattle to the playoffs 5 times in 6 years. Matt Stafford is Just A Guy. But yall (not necessarily you) say one successful playoff run makes him a Canton-worthy player while Wilson isn't lmao...

Russell Wilson is one if the greatest quarterbacks this league has ever seen. About the only real knock on him is lack of longevity----->the true greats have 10+ year runs as elite QBs, he's only at 7 right now but I have no doubt he gets to 10...

The only other legitimate knock is he hasn't yet proven he can make a deep postseason run without an elite back, an elite line, and an elite defense. That's legitimate, Rodgers is a contemporary he's been oft-compared to and Rodgers has gotten to the doorstep of the Super Bowl more than once with deficiencies in these areas. The read on Russ is he's great enough to get you in the dance and win alot of games, because that's more than guys like Padford or Cousins have done with similar roster deficiencies, but can only transcend you to a point...

He's a proven winner. Give him just one elite area of support he's been lacking for years and he can get you right back to the Super Bowl. He isn't Stat Padford, I hate to keep bringing his name up but he's the man of the hour...

He ain't Padford who has literally needed a superstar-laden team on both sides of the ball, with a superstar coach, to win a playoff game. If Russ gets just one teammate at the skill positions who is to their position what he is to theirs, meaning one elite RB or receiver, he can transcend the weak line or defense. Or if he gets an elite defense again, he's already shown he can elevate average talent around him on offense. Or give him a line that can pass protect to an elite level and he doesn't need a superstar offensive teammate or elite defense...

This thread has pissed me off lol. There is no argument with validity that he isn't one of the very best quarterbacks ever. Average quarterbacks aren't doing what he does and he's clearly one of the most efficient quarterbacks ever...

I'm gonna bookmark this fukking thread, when he has his comeback years I'm shytting on all these dudes in here. All these opinions that he ain't an All-Timer are already terrible and are gonna age worse. 7 straight years of elite play have already shown him to be an All-Timer, so he doesn't need a Super Bowl run to prove that. But let my nikka win another ring, lotta these dudes gonna look even more foolish than they already do...

 

[NYC Rebel]

Bro I didn't say I had a problem using accolades, I said there are guys in thus thread using them to shyt on Russ when guys without certain accomplishments they are ranking higher...

I just said whole body of work, at his best Russ has played like the best player in football. I can go back to his coming out party in 2015 when he ascended as an elite quarterback, up to his play the first half to most of 2020. He certainly isn't without flaw but his entire body of work validates his credibility as an All-Time great...





I said Brees is arguably Rushmore, not set in stone. I personally feel he's the 5th greatest QB ever---->for me it's Brady, Montana, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, with a healthy gap between Manning and Rodgers---->and most QB lists have him in the top 6-7 historically. So yes, he has a case you can make for him as #4 GOAT...

And Dan Marino is overrated as shyt, time has completely swept some of his worst performances and chokes away. He was Rodgers before Rodgers, a regular season assassin who routinely played substandard in the Second Season.



Even if he isn't it's debatable, there haven't been 20 quarterbacks to play the position better in the history of the NFL, and for that matter, there haven't been 20 greater than Wilson either...

So many of us are devaluing that we have grown up in and been able to see the NFL's Golden Age of quarterbacking. The post-2000 NFL has been flooded with All-Time QBs to an unprecedented degree the first 80 years of league history didn't reach...

Blame Dan Marino for never having a single 100 yard rusher behind him in a playoff game for his career.

 

[murksiderock]

Blame Dan Marino for never having a single 100 yard rusher behind him in a playoff game for his career.

Marino won 3 playoff games in his last 8 years/second half of his career. He was smoked off the field in his last two AFCCG appearances, on 44 of 93 passing. Missed the playoffs completely 7x in 16 years, so almost half his career he wasn't even in the dance, and had one stretch he missed the playoffs 4 years in a row. Only won his division twice in the second half/last 8 years of his career...

Dan Marino was super talented but wildly overrated measuring him by the same standards everyone else is judged by. Do you know this cac never even won a playoff game on the road? Not one? Marino typically wasn't a guy who could rise to the moment, he was Rodgers before Rodgers except Rodgers is better...

 

[Hoodoo Child]

'Hot Take Era' is the worst.

 

[Street Knowledge]

Blame Dan Marino for never having a single 100 yard rusher behind him in a playoff game for his career.

Every day people win playoff games without 100 hard rushers

 

[NYC Rebel]

Every day people win playoff games without 100 hard rushers

In the 80s?

and please tell me “everyday people” who can play 32 straight games without a single 100 yard rusher in any of them and succeed?

 

[Street Knowledge]

In the 80s?

and please tell me “everyday people” who can play 32 straight games without a single 100 yard rusher in any of them and succeed?

You want me to name playoff games won by QBs in the 1980’s when none of his Rbs reached 100 yards? Is that correct?