Royce Da 5’9” - Silence Of The Lambda (Lupe Fiasco Response) (Produced By Carlos “6 July” Broady)

[Insensitive]

@Insensitive Because Lupe was kind of the prototype conscious mainstream rapper akin to a J. Cole or a Kendrick. With lyricism, since words have been around forever, it's hard to really carve your own thing unless you start to get gimmicky (see Young Thug, though I love his music) Lupe was less about having signature flows that audiences can easily pick up and sing along to.

I actually agree on some of your points, but what you're mentioning is more of an artist thing than a rapper thing, which Lupe admitted to when he said Kendrick was a better artist than him. To be honest, Lupe didn't have the 'artist mystique' or rockstar antics that a Kendrick, Lil Wayne, Andre 3000 would have style wise, or music wise. He's actually a pretty regular dude and always came off as such. He wasn't into the theatrics that sometimes come with being pioneering like artist I've mentioned before, at least far as style and artistically.

One thing I always was able to highlight about Lupe's music is he always dropped knowledge in a way that was easily digestible and made you wanna look more into it as well as hood perspectives that no one else really covered how he did (American Terrorist, He Say She Say, Dumb It Down etc.) Kendrick kind of used to do that, but it's hard to really claim knowledge and perspective stylistically.

I'm tired brehs. This a Royce thread

No.
He wasn't.


Pure revisionist history.

"The prototype mainstream conscious rapper" from a dude who couldn't recite Quest lyrics

All of the things Lupe was saying were literally cliche by the time he was doing it.
It only seems "crazy" and "out there" because it was a dude on a major saying and not yah know Public Enemy or De La Soul or The Roots or Talib Kweli
or Mos Def or Common or...there's SO many cats, some of which have sold just as much as Lupe if not more (Common for example).

I dare someone to tell me De La Soul Is Dead or Stakes Is High is not the whole prototype to whatever Lupe was tryna do 14/20 whole years later with songs like "Dumb it Down" and "Next To It".

 

[NoHalfWay]

@Insensitive ill have my response later my brother I’m burnt out rn

 

[BK The Great]

Yeah...that’s all he wants..

I don’t know.

 

[TheOptimisticCynikal]

No.
He wasn't.


Pure revisionist history.

"The prototype mainstream conscious rapper" from a dude who couldn't recite Quest lyrics

All of the things Lupe was saying were literally cliche by the time he was doing it.
It only seems "crazy" and "out there" because it was a dude on a major saying and not yah know Public Enemy or De La Soul or The Roots or Talib Kweli
or Mos Def or Common or...there's SO many cats, some of which have sold just as much as Lupe if not more (Common for example).

I dare someone to tell me De La Soul Is Dead or Stakes Is High is not the whole prototype to whatever Lupe was tryna do 14/20 whole years later with songs like "Dumb it Down" and "Next To It".

Thank you for agreeing with me. Lupe was one of the first mainstream/major label conscious rappers that set the blueprint for a Kendrick or a J. Cole.

Edit: thinking about it 'first' is probably a reach, but I can't think of another rapper before him that was heavy on the conscious rap that had major label backing and push (Jay Z, Kanye co-signs. Was Atlantic's priority until they decided to sabotage him)

Edit 2: So cliche it got him four #1 charting albums in a row and a Grammy.

Edit 3: I don't know about them 90s rappers because I was barely an infant and hip hop wasn't as popular. Common maybe, but he only started getting chart topping albums after 10+ years in the game. My main point is Lupe is the prototype to that #1 priority major label backing conscious rapper. There is no Kendrick or J. Cole without Lupe. He proved to labels that consciousness can sell

 

[Dboy41]

Its crazy how people act like Lupe had no impact. Im not going back and forth when receipts can speak for themselves

Lupe might not have reached the commercial heights as Kendrick or Cole, but for HIS style of music/rapping, he came out ok. Y’all say he sucks at making songs, yet Kick Push is a classic and iconic.

I saw Common’s name thrown around, his career was a slow burn. He didnt get mainstream success until about 10+ Years later.


Kick, Push: New The Undefeated On ESPN+ Special, Debuting Today, Spotlights Black Skateboarders

 

[Jugernot]

Death is Certain & The Book Of Ryan are great albums, But Neither one of them are better than F&L & for damn sure not as good as The Cool imo

Oh I agree. I am saying overall. All of the bar exams, The Allegory is his best album by far, his PRhyme albums, Trust the Shooter mixtape etc.. While F&L has some of Lupe's best songs, I think it is has some of his worst too. However, The Cool is simply a genius album. I am actually incredibly disappointed on how his career went after it because I thought he was the next prolific rapper after that masterpiece.

 

[Jugernot]

Its crazy how people act like Lupe had no impact. Im not going back and forth when receipts can speak for themselves

Lupe might not have reached the commercial heights as Kendrick or Cole, but for HIS style of music/rapping, he came out ok. Y’all say he sucks at making songs, yet Kick Push is a classic and iconic.

I saw Common’s name thrown around, his career was a slow burn. He didnt get mainstream success until about 10+ Years later.


Kick, Push: New The Undefeated On ESPN+ Special, Debuting Today, Spotlights Black Skateboarders

Love Lupe, but Common's career has been way more impactful and it's almost disrespectful to compare him to Lupe.

 

[Insensitive]

Thank you for agreeing with me. Lupe was one of the first mainstream/major label conscious rappers that set the blueprint for a Kendrick or a J. Cole.

No.
That's an incredible stretch.
fukking Public Enemy & Brand Nubian were signed to Columbia & Elektra, Talib Kweli was on Geffen/Warner Brothers, Mos Def was on Geffen and so on.
All of these dudes have sold hundreds of thousands of records.
Yeah they weren't household names but they FOR SURE weren't nobodies and they DEFINITELY provided/added to the "Blueprint" long before Lupe Fiasco was even a factor.

Edit: thinking about it 'first' is probably a reach, but I can't think of another rapper before him that was heavy on the conscious rap that had major label backing and push (Jay Z, Kanye co-signs. Was Atlantic's priority until they decided to sabotage him)

Then frankly, you aren't thinking hard enough.

Edit 2: So cliche it got him four #1 charting albums in a row and a Grammy.

Cliche =/= Bad
It just means that it was a played out Hip-Hop/Rap Cliche by the time Lupe was doing it.
A different spin sure, but trying to paint bro as "Fresh" or "New" is not being truthful whatsoever.

Edit 3: I don't know about them 90s rappers because I was barely an infant and hip hop wasn't as popular. Common maybe, but he only started getting chart topping albums after 10+ years in the game.

He wasn't on a major until later in his career if memory serves me correctly.
Which really means fukk all because he was already relevant within Hip-Hop, like...really relevant, relevant enough to get
disses sent his way by other legends like Ice Cube.

My main point is Lupe is the prototype to that #1 priority major label backing conscious rapper. There is no Kendrick or J. Cole without Lupe. He proved to labels that consciousness can sell

Oh ok cool, your main point holds no weight IMO.
And J. Cole isn't "Conscious", he's more "Backpack" than anything.
He's very "Everyman" while "Conscious" rappers tend to be in the vein of Gil-Scott Heron, Kendrick is probably closest to that description
but either way, they all hail from that same tradition established again...well before Lupe Fiasco was even a factor, hell before was even walking this earth.

I was also a small child in the 90's but by the mid-2000's I was old enough to have watched Kanye West blow up and help to revitalize
and/or jumpstart a few careers like Lupe FIasco's, so maybe I just have more perspective.


If you're a zennial, it helps to explain some things.

 

[Jugernot]

B

No.
That's an incredible stretch.
fukking Public Enemy & Brand Nubian were signed to Columbia & Elektra, Talib Kweli was on Geffen/Warner Brothers, Mos Def was on Geffen and so on.
All of these dudes have sold hundreds of thousands of records.
Yeah they weren't household names but they FOR SURE weren't nobodies and they DEFINITELY provided/added to the "Blueprint" long before Lupe Fiasco was even a factor.


Then frankly, you aren't thinking hard enough.

Cliche =/= Bad
It just means that it was a played out Hip-Hop/Rap Cliche by the time Lupe was doing it.
A different spin sure, but trying to paint bro as "Fresh" or "New" is not being truthful whatsoever.


He wasn't on a major until later in his career if memory serves me correctly.
Which really means fukk all because he was already relevant within Hip-Hop, like...really relevant, relevant enough to get
disses sent his way by other legends like Ice Cube.

Oh ok cool, your main point holds no weight IMO.
And J. Cole isn't "Conscious", he's more "Backpack" than anything.
He's very "Everyman" while "Conscious" rappers tend to be in the vein of Gil-Scott Heron, Kendrick is probably closest to that description
but either way, they all hail from that same tradition established again...well before Lupe Fiasco was even a factor, hell before was even walking this earth.

I was also a small child in the 90's but by the mid-2000's I was old enough to have watched Kanye West blow up and help to revitalize
and/or jumpstart a few careers like Lupe FIasco's, so maybe I just have more perspective.


If you're a zennial, it helps to explain some things.

Bro it is like people are completely forgetting history. Kanye was a MAJOR reason as to why conscious/backpack rappers were getting play in the 2000's. He helped Lupe, Common and Talib tremendously.

 

[NoHalfWay]

As I said in my original post discog wise and chart performance wise bro has largely been a non-factor for nearly a decade. 2012 ,in four months, will be ten years ago breh.

I also said: his last major hit was more his label's pen than his own.

I know Kick, Push & Superstar are all in house. The other records are debatable and that's because his major wanted a larger cut of his album sales (so he got shopped the same demo's B.O.B. was getting).

Lupe Fiasco blew up because that was the goal of his employers to try to make another Star and profit off of their investment. Something they succeeded at doing but self sabotage, massive ego on top of major label interference did his career in.
He's cool as an album artist, has a hit or two under his belt but is he big LIKE THAT? Nah.

Nah my guy I ain’t bout to put the majority onus on Lupe like that. The derailment of Lupe’s mainstream career was 60% Atlantic being greedy, 25% Chilly’s incarceration, 15% Lupe's political rampaging.

He never hit the heights of a Cole or Kendrick in mainstream popularity and has the career success very comparable to Wale, not because of his lack of talent but mostly pure circumstance. Idk how nikkas at TDE careers turn out if Top Dawg lookin at fed time before his cash cow breaks through the mainstream

As for asking about where he ranks in comparison to these other emcees. You’d have to go case by case. Kanye is a mega pop star icon he’s in the Dr. Dre class nikkas rank him completely differently he’s not an emcee

He’s been part of classic work but I’d take Lu over Talib Kweli…

Mos Def… ehhh BOBS is better than any Lu album and BlackStar is a classic collab. I don’t rank him above Lu especially he ran from him but I can see the justification for it

Common is an actual underground* (sorta) GOAT

But Royce da 5’9? Absolutely not

 

[Insensitive]

Nah my guy I ain’t bout to put the majority onus on Lupe like that. The derailment of Lupe’s mainstream career was 60% Atlantic being greedy, 25% Chilly’s incarceration, 15% Lupe's political rampaging.

It's not ALL on Lu but some of it is DEFINITELY on him.
When the major handed the reigns back, Lupe couldn't replicated F&L or The Cool. Lasers & F&LII basically get relegated
to the backseat and treated as if they don't exist and that's after bro aped a classic beat in T.R.O.Y.
That was absolutely NOT the time to let his foot off the gas pedal because......

He never hit the heights of a Cole or Kendrick in mainstream popularity and has the career success very comparable to Wale, not because of his lack of talent but mostly pure circumstance. Idk how nikkas at TDE careers turn out if Top Dawg lookin at fed time before his cash cow breaks through the mainstream

Guys like Kendrick, Cole, Wale, Drake, Big Sean were all growing into their own or in
Cole, Kendrick & Drakes* case, they were starting off heavy.

For perspective, Lupe was dropping those two albums when indie projects like Section.80 & Truly Yours/Friday Night Lights were either right around
the corner or had already dropped.

As for asking about where he ranks in comparison to these other emcees. You’d have to go case by case. Kanye is a mega pop star icon he’s in the Dr. Dre class nikkas rank him completely differently he’s not an emcee

He’s been part of classic work but I’d take Lu over Talib Kweli…

Mos Def… ehhh BOBS is better than any Lu album and BlackStar is a classic collab. I don’t rank him above Lu especially he ran from him but I can see the justification for it

Common is an actual underground* (sorta) GOAT

I'd argue all three of those dudes not only positively impacted Hip-Hop but continued to carry the banner for "Hip-Hop" from the 90's.

Talib has not only a solid discography but classic shyt IMO.
Quality ? Reflection Eternal ? Eardrum ? (Came out the same year as The Cool and easily ranks on the same level)
He often is regarded as "not as dope as Mos" but looking at Talib's career, he's done really, really well for himself and has
a solid discog if not great discog.

Mos Def? Well, it's Mos Def.

Common ? Again, I mean, it's Common.

But Royce da 5’9? Absolutely not

Royce Da 5'9" actually has a really strong career.
Outside of a handful of guys in the middle-card Koch records tier.
How many dudes in Hip-Hop have really had Royce's success ?
Hell how many of those cats are even remotely relevant and still touring & releasing music in 2021 that
would've been called his peers back in the day ? Or even just five years ago ?

If we run down the gamut of those rappers who've either been within that range record wise or were
even labelmates with Royce at some point, he's got damn near double the plays, hundreds of thousands more
followers and the rap game clout as far as co-signs from O.G.'s.
Then when I factor in not just SOLID but GREAT releases like Death Is Certain, Book of Ryan, The Allegory
or more solid projects like Trust The Shooter, Street Hop or Success Is Certain, I sincerely feel bro is not
just "okay" but actually really, really good, great even.
Easily on Lupe's level as far as discographies go, grammy success aside (but that's a slippery slope, Drake has more grammy's than
any rapper we're talking about but...he ain't the G.O.A.T. at all....)[/QUOTE]

 

[O.Red]

Lupe stans are making that impossible. I thought I was a stan but I see the light now.

You been the most stannish nikka in all these threads by FAR breh

 

[Dboy41]

Love Lupe, but Common's career has been way more impactful and it's almost disrespectful to compare him to Lupe.

Again, Common consistently grinded. Lupe checked out after lasers.

 

[SleezyBigSlim]

Lupe's diss was better, he's more potent then Royce and his lines always deliver better because of it

 

[TheOptimisticCynikal]

No.
That's an incredible stretch.
fukking Public Enemy & Brand Nubian were signed to Columbia & Elektra, Talib Kweli was on Geffen/Warner Brothers, Mos Def was on Geffen and so on.
All of these dudes have sold hundreds of thousands of records.
Yeah they weren't household names but they FOR SURE weren't nobodies and they DEFINITELY provided/added to the "Blueprint" long before Lupe Fiasco was even a factor.


Then frankly, you aren't thinking hard enough.

Cliche =/= Bad
It just means that it was a played out Hip-Hop/Rap Cliche by the time Lupe was doing it.
A different spin sure, but trying to paint bro as "Fresh" or "New" is not being truthful whatsoever.


He wasn't on a major until later in his career if memory serves me correctly.
Which really means fukk all because he was already relevant within Hip-Hop, like...really relevant, relevant enough to get
disses sent his way by other legends like Ice Cube.

Oh ok cool, your main point holds no weight IMO.
And J. Cole isn't "Conscious", he's more "Backpack" than anything.
He's very "Everyman" while "Conscious" rappers tend to be in the vein of Gil-Scott Heron, Kendrick is probably closest to that description
but either way, they all hail from that same tradition established again...well before Lupe Fiasco was even a factor, hell before was even walking this earth.

I was also a small child in the 90's but by the mid-2000's I was old enough to have watched Kanye West blow up and help to revitalize
and/or jumpstart a few careers like Lupe FIasco's, so maybe I just have more perspective.


If you're a zennial, it helps to explain some things.

Late 80s/ early 90s hip hop was still a novelty. It's not fair to compare that era to the early 2000s when the industry was more established. As mentioned before, Common was a 10 year vet before his first #1 and Mos Def acknowledges Lupe as the superior rapper/artist. J. Cole very much is a conscious rapper. Kids on Drugs is a testament to that alone.

My argument is Lupe is the prototype main focus artist that labels sign to make them the big bucks as a conscious act. Right from when he was signed when there was a bidding war for him after co signs from Jay (same dude that signed Cole trying to replicate the Lupe success) and Ye (when he was the old Kanye). You admitted yourself that the artists you mentioned weren't house hold names. Lupe was. His catalogue and numbers and Grammy is testament to that. Common is a great mention. Love his music. But he was a vet by the time he was invested into by Kanye's GOOD Music label. Lupe's first four albums topped Billboard Rap charts with Lasers topping US Billboard, US R&B and US Rap charts. Tetsuo & Youth is the only major label album he had that didn't go #1 (went #2). After that he quit dealing with mainstream hip hop but by that time Kendrick & Cole took the torch as leaders of that superstar conscious rap, but that's near a decade of absolute success.