Roland Martin Goes One-On-One With Dr. Umar Johnson

[MeachTheMonster]

The people who disagree with him arent doing anything to help the black community rise. They just sit their lazy asses on the sidelines and critique black men like Tariq and Umar who actuality went out and did something

They've both made a living off judging and critiquing other black people.

 

[Blackout]

They've both made a living off judging and critiquing other black people.

They also did things themselves to try and help the black community rise

What do you do?

 

[DEAD7]

The old tired shyt about "the black family...." is as off base as it's ever been.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

They also did things to try and help the black community rise

What do you do?

First off I married a black woman and am raising a proud black family.

What Umar called one of the most important things you can do(and the only thing he said I agree with)

But beyond that I am active in helping my community in any way that I can.

 

[JahFocus CS]

I'll state my position definitively from the jump so that there's no confusion where I stand.

I 100% oppose Afrikans, and other POC (but I only really focus and care about my own groups on this issue), intermarrying with cacs. That's unequivocal. Under current social conditions I do not care what the situation is to be frank.

500 years (so far) of genocide, ethnic cleansing, slavery, oppression, murder, and rape are the foundations for my position. They've been telling us who they are for centuries at this point. I believe them and react to them accordingly.

NOW, my position would be different prior to the 1500s, when race and white supremacy hadn't yet been fully been invented and the world order built upon it. It would be different under communism with the abolition of the concept of race. It would be different in a post-apocalyptic scenario where race is not a social determinant of anything. But under modern society founded on the legacy and continuance of those 500 years of things I mentioned above? I'm standing firm on my position.

Whiteness is a virus.

I think Afrikans who marry cacs should be socially shunned. If they care about "the work," they can work through organizations to contribute to the "cause" but I personally don't even view them as Afrikan once they make that leap. That doesn't detract from the mechanical work that they're doing, but anyone can engage in anti-racist work.

With regards to POC intermarrying with each other, I don't oppose it unequivocally, only circumstantially (i.e., I judge it on a case-by-case basis). What is the worldview of the Afrikan involved? If his/her partner is Korean or Arab, not gonna lie, I view that with more suspicion than I would if their partner was Latin American (of biracial or triracial ancestry). Because of the anti-Black attitudes that permeate Korean and Arab social conditioning, and also our lack of a deep history of shared struggle or positive social experience with those groups.

Also, it creates too many descendants that will be ambivalent about fighting oppression that we face. Umar did a great job detailing the psychological effects of these unions between black and white in the minds of black people. Sure you will have the occasional black person that can overcome this hindrance and confusion the union creates but most of the time that black person becomes neutralized.

This is a major point for me. There are many half-cacs who walk a tightrope on racial issues because of how they view themselves racially. How you gonna militantly oppose Ann Coulter or Steve King or a cac pig when you look at them and see the face of your mom or dad or Auntie Annie or Uncle Steve?

@MeachTheMonster here you go buddy:

I understand history and why a black person would/should want nothing to do with a white person.

I'm asking how it effects black people as a whole.

Clearly you don't understand, otherwise the answers to the questions you've been asking would be obvious to you.

For the following reasons, off top:

1. 500 years (so far) of genocide, ethnic cleansing, slavery, oppression, murder, and rape, how do you forgive their community for all of that just because they lifted the ban on miscegenation a few decades ago? what a fukking low bar to set for forgiveness and willing to hold hands (and put a ring on their finger, and wake up next to them every morning...) with them
2. Every Afrikan who does it takes a step toward normalizing that behavior/decision in our community.
3. If they have children, they will likely be racially confused to some degree and identify/sympathize with cacs to a significant degree. Again: how you gonna militantly oppose Ann Coulter or Steve King when you look at them and see the face of your mom or dad or Auntie Annie or Uncle Steve?
4. They'll never relate to your experiences of oppression and you will be stunting your personal growth as an Afrikan/Black person.

Points 3 and 4 feed into Point 2 because the more individuals do it, the more visibility and impact it will have in the community.

none of this is even getting into feeding into and exacerbating ideas about privileging cac beauty standards and devaluing African features.

Y'all should just say you don't like white people instead of trying to dictate what other people do or how they feel.

I do not like cacs.

Anyone on this forum who has used the term "cac" feels the same way (it is, after all, a term with some racial animus behind it). And if you don't, take the word out of your vocabulary.

As for the bolded yes. Strategically a lot of social and economic power can be gained through ir marriage.

Beyond any of that, what good is fighting to break free of oppression if you can't even be free to love?

so you admitted the bold. look at how these mulatto elites (how did they become elites you think?) in colonies perpetuated colonialism and even now, under neo-colonialism, help preserve that state of affairs.

What a sappy fukking statement to make, are you fukking kidding me? "What good is struggling so that our children don't get murdered in the streets by pigs if we're not free to struggle for the chance to ask for a PAWG's hand in marriage?"

fukk all the way off.

Whether you work for or against the struggle, the single deal breaker for Umar is sex and procreation with a white woman. So just come out and say white women are evil and laying with one is the most degrading thing you can do for the evolution of black people. JUST SAY IT.

He didn't say it was a deal breaker, in TBC interview he said marrying a cac was a blemish on Douglass' record. And it is.

Cac women are evil. There are a few exceptions (for both cac men and women). But the numbers of cacs fighting to abolish whiteness/racism is so statistically insignificant at this time that I'm comfortable rounding it down to 0. Yes, that is a big fat fukkING ZERO.

I'm not gonna say it is "the most degrading thing you can do for the evolution of black people," but I WILL say that is ONE of the most degrading things you can do for your personal evolution as an Afrikan/Black person, individually. Which of course, on a large enough scale, has ramifications for the entire group.

Y'all are constantly going to run away from saying white people are the devil and their skin color makes their works inconsequential. You guys won't stand by your thoughts and just say.

See above, although I don't think their skin color makes their works inconsequential.

No one can ever question John Brown, for example.

At this point, something approaching John Brown is my standard for judging cacs.

Now that all of those quotations have been addressed, my closing thoughts for this thread since I have nothing more to really say after this:

it's "cac this, cac that" until it comes to your access to white vagina. fukking pathetic. I used to laugh off suggestions that a driver of the Civil Rights Movement was sexual access but now I'm not so sure. There's something to that line of argument.

In this thread we've had dudes 'ing for 12 pages on some #NotAllWhitePeople bullshyt to justify undermining Johnson's pro-Afrikan/Afrikan marriage position. I never want to see several of you using the term "cac" ever again after posting over 10 times in here caping for cacs like your lives depended on it.

So like I said earlier in the thread: most of y'all aspire to be melanated cacs. What separates you from cacs (aside from how they treat you), when you can't imagine living apart from them, are content to live under the system they set up and their governing boot, have no desire to reconnect with your ancestors, and want to join their families? You're chasing acceptance, that yearning for acceptance is what you define as our "struggle" so it's no wonder why you're so adamant about defending the opportunity to consort and lay with the descendants of our enslavers.

Black people in North America have no future as long as the attitudes in the previous paragraph predominate.

Black liberalism is some dangerous shyt.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

What a sappy fukking statement to make, are you fukking kidding me? "What good is struggling so that our children don't get murdered in the streets by pigs if we're not free to struggle for the chance to ask for a PAWG's hand in marriage?"

Free to make any choice they see fit. You want to dictate and oppress just like the cacs you claim to hate.

If I'm gonna fight for freedom, I'm gonna fight for just that. Not for me to force my views and opinions on others.

Clearly you don't understand, otherwise the answers to the questions you've been asking would be obvious to you

This is all just your opinion on why you wouldn't marry a white person.

That's not what I asked.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Free to make any choice they see fit. You want to dictate and oppress just like the cacs you claim to hate.

If I'm gonna fight for freedom, I'm gonna fight for just that. Not for me to force my views and opinions on others.

This is all just your opinion on why you wouldn't marry a white person.

That's not what I asked.

Who is being oppressed by Afrikans not marrying cacs? Shut the hell up fukking ridiculous. That speaks to your own devaluing of Afrikan life, beauty and culture if you think we're being oppressed and missing out on something by not miscegenating with cacs.

You don't like what I said so you dismiss it as my opinion, that's fine.

I can't prevent anyone from marrying a cac, but I do fully support socially ostracizing and shunning them as a deterrent. Why a deterrent is needed after 500 years is dumbfounding to me nonetheless. But if the shunning doesn't work, I believe they should be disowned by the community.

I practice this in my own family, I do not rock with my cousin who married a cac and only interact with him if other family members force us into proximity with each other.

Here's the kicker: he blew up his Afrikan family with two kids to cheat with this cac, then he married her and had a kid with her. He's a c00n.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Who is being oppressed by Afrikans not marrying cacs? Shut the hell up fukking ridiculous. That speaks to your own devaluing of Afrikan life, beauty and culture if you think we're being oppressed and missing out on something by not miscegenating with cacs.

Oppression is about control through things like social ostracism as you describe later in this post.

You don't like what I said so you dismiss it as my opinion, that's fine.

I don't have a problem with what you said. It's just not the answer to my question.

I can't prevent anyone from marrying a cac, but I do fully support socially ostracizing and shunning them as a deterrent. Why a deterrent is needed after 500 years is dumbfounding to me nonetheless. But if the shunning doesn't work, I believe they should be disowned by the community.

I practice this in my own family, I do not rock with my cousin who married a cac and only interact with him if other family members force us into proximity with each other.

Here's the kicker: he blew up his Afrikan family with two kids to cheat with this cac, then he married her and had a kid with her. He's a c00n.

That's fine. But again. That's not what I asked.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Oppression is about control through things like social ostracism as you describe later in this post.

I don't have a problem with what you said. It's just not the answer to my question.

That's fine. But again. That's not what I asked.

That's not my definition of oppression. People are not required to accept you, particularly and especially when they aren't denying or impeding your ability to stay alive or secure the resources you need to stay alive. The denial or impediment of those things is the core of how I define oppression.

I already addressed your question, which was how does it affect the community as a whole.

You didn't like my answer because you're dedicated to caping for cacs. Not much else to discuss at this point.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

That's not my definition of oppression. People are not required to accept you, particularly and especially when they aren't denying or impeding your ability to stay alive or secure the resources you need to stay alive. The denial or impediment of those things is the core of how I define oppression.

Social ostracism leads to the denial of resources. That's exactly how racism works to oppress minorities in America.

I already addressed your question, which was how does it affect the community as a whole.

You didn't like my answer because you're dedicated to caping for cacs. Not much else to discuss at this point.

You really didn't. You just talked about your hate for white folks.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Social ostracism leads to the denial of resources. That's exactly how racism works to oppress minorities in America.

You really didn't. You just talked about your hate for white folks.

Racism only works that way because your buddies genocided and enslaved their way to all of the resources, and then excluded us from partaking in the fruits of our labor.

If cacs left everyone else in the world alone, no one would be clamoring for access to Europe talking about "you're oppressing us by denying us resources."

I thought you were smarter than this.

Maybe I was wrong.

 

[JahFocus CS]

#AllLivesMatter
#IDontSeeColor
#NotAllWhiteFolks

 

[theworldismine13]

Black liberals got straight up exposed in this thread

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Racism only works that way because your buddies genocided and enslaved their way to all of the resources, and then excluded us from partaking in the fruits of our labor.

If cacs left everyone else in the world alone, no one would be clamoring for access to Europe talking about "you're oppressing us by denying us resources."

I thought you were smarter than this.

Maybe I was wrong.

You jump all over the place with each post. And still never answered my question

What you've described here is your desire to oppress black people who don't follow your social doctrine.

That's fine if that's your opinion

You just don't realize how similar you are to those cacs you say you hate.

 

[JahFocus CS]

You jump all over the place with each post. And still never answered my question

What you've described here is your desire to oppress black people who don't follow your social doctrine.

That's fine if that's your opinion

You just don't realize how similar you are to those cacs you say you hate.

"No distance is too far for my "
- @MeachTheMonster