Rodman in ‘96: “The league is so watered-down, we can beat pretty much anyone with our eyes closed”

[Professor Emeritus]

This thread needed two revivals four years apart just to reach 5 pages even though what Rodman said was explicitly explained and backed up....while Kawhi made one out-of-context throwaway statement and the thread immediately went 10 pages deep.

90% of the posters on this site don't even want to understand what's happening on the court, they only want to find food for their posting agenda.

 

[mastermind]

It really fukked up the NBA ecosystem. Key players to a team involuntarily being drafted to fill the new rosters. No league in history outside of a merger saw as many teams made in such a short span.

I always felt Stern's failure was building around the popularity Jordan brought to the NBA. I don't give him the brilliant mind tag some give him. First off, he was playing catch up to the Nike because they were the ones taking Jordan and his brand to countries all over Europe before the NBA decided to become global. He treated the league like a cheap suit dumping all of these new teams into the league. Interest in the regular season started its decline during that time.

pretty much

He and his protégé Gary Bettman were on some more is better bullshyt and it fukked both leagues for a decade.

 

[#1 pick]

It really fukked up the NBA ecosystem. Key players to a team involuntarily being drafted to fill the new rosters. No league in history outside of a merger saw as many teams made in such a short span.

I always felt Stern's failure was building around the popularity Jordan brought to the NBA. I don't give him the brilliant mind tag some give him. First off, he was playing catch up to the Nike because they were the ones taking Jordan and his brand to countries all over Europe before the NBA decided to become global. He treated the league like a cheap suit dumping all of these new teams into the league. Interest in the regular season started its decline during that time.

The talent was already watered down due to the late 80s cocaine run. Expansion just sped up the kill. shyt. Look how old teams were in the mid 90s who were winning

 

[fifth column]

The talent was already watered down due to the late 80s cocaine run. Expansion just sped up the kill. shyt. Look how old teams were in the mid 90s who were winning

The 2014 Spurs and 2011 Mavs were pretty old and they were winning

 

[BlackAchilles]

What I really wanna know is Rodzilla's match on who would win in a War Games match: the NWO or the Bloodline

 

[Professor Emeritus]

The 2014 Spurs and 2011 Mavs were pretty old and they were winning

Not even remotely comparable. Look at the 1998 Finals. In just that one series alone:

Rodman: 36
Carr: 36
Stockton: 35
Hornacek: 34
Malone: 34
Jordan: 34
Harper: 34
Pippen: 32
Morris: 32
Kerr: 32

Both teams had 3-4 key players who were 34-36 and there were 5 rotation players on each team who were 32+. That's only counting guys who played at least 12 minutes/game in the Finals.

On Dallas, Kidd was 37 but no one else was over 33.
On San Antonio, Duncan/Manu were 37/36, but no one else was over 31.

The Mavs/Spurs had just 1-2 players each who were in their twilight, and everyone else was in their career primes. The Bulls/Jazz had damn near EVERY star on the court in the last stages of their career and clearly down from their peak (except Malone).

If that's not enough for you, then look at this graph:

1990-2003 is the only era in NBA history where the average age of players actually on the court was over 27 years old. And 1996-2002 basketball specifically was older than any other era in basketball history, with average age of players on the court being 27.5-28.0 years for that stretch. That's a decent measure of how diluted the talent was across too many teams.

 

[fifth column]

Not even remotely comparable. Look at the 1998 Finals. In just that one series alone:

Rodman: 36
Carr: 36
Stockton: 35
Hornacek: 34
Malone: 34
Jordan: 34
Harper: 34
Pippen: 32
Morris: 32
Kerr: 32

Both teams had 3-4 key players who were 34-36 and there were 5 rotation players on each team who were 32+. That's only counting guys who played at least 12 minutes/game in the Finals.

On Dallas, Kidd was 37 but no one else was over 33.
On San Antonio, Duncan/Manu were 37/36, but no one else was over 31.

The Mavs/Spurs had just 1-2 players each who were in their twilight, and everyone else was in their career primes. The Bulls/Jazz had damn near EVERY star on the court in the last stages of their career and clearly down from their peak (except Malone).

If that's not enough for you, then look at this graph:

1990-2003 is the only era in NBA history where the average age of players actually on the court was over 27 years old. And 1996-2002 basketball specifically was older than any other era in basketball history, with average age of players on the court being 27.5-28.0 years for that stretch. That's a decent measure of how diluted the talent was across too many teams.

How old was Dirk, Jason Terry and Shawn Marion in 2011? You left them out

 

[Professor Emeritus]

How old was Dirk, Jason Terry and Shawn Marion in 2011? You left them out

Dirk and Marion were 32, and Terry was 33, all of them were still in excellent shape with Dirk/Terry in their prime.

That's nothing like Jordan, Stockton, Hornacek, Rodman, Pippen, Harper, all of whom were clearly on the downslope by 1998. And all of those except for Pippen were 34+, with Pippen being hurt and falling off.

 

[fifth column]

Dirk and Marion were 32, and Terry was 33, all of them were still in excellent shape with Dirk/Terry in their prime.

That's nothing like Jordan, Stockton, Hornacek, Rodman, Pippen, Harper, all of whom were clearly on the downslope by 1998. And all of those except for Pippen were 34+, with Pippen being hurt and falling off.

Your argument is flimsy at best

 

[NYC Rebel]

The talent was already watered down due to the late 80s cocaine run. Expansion just sped up the kill. shyt. Look how old teams were in the mid 90s who were winning

I do not understand what you mean by the cocaine run

All sports have coke heads. What made the NBA different?

 

[mastermind]

I do not understand what you mean by the cocaine run

All sports have coke heads. What made the NBA different?

Ehhh, I get what he saying.

A lot of guys in the 80s were lost due to coke. In the NFL and MLB, players are more replaceable because of roster sizes and the depth in talent. Dexter Manley snorted himself out the NFL, but the Slurs had Charles Mann to take over. In MLB, I don't know if they even did coke testing in the 80s, tbf.

There aren't that many Len Biases (RIP), Roy Tarpleys (RIP), David Thompsons, Spencer Haywoods, Michael Ray Richardsons or even Mitchell Wiggins and Lewis Lloyds (RIP) walking the Earth.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Ehhh, I get what he saying.

A lot of guys in the 80s were lost due to coke. In the NFL and MLB, players are more replaceable because of roster sizes and the depth in talent. Dexter Manley snorted himself out the NFL, but the Slurs had Charles Mann to take over. In MLB, I don't know if they even did coke testing in the 80s, tbf.

There aren't that many Len Biases (RIP), Roy Tarpleys (RIP), David Thompsons, Spencer Haywoods, Michael Ray Richardsons or even Mitchell Wiggins and Lewis Lloyds (RIP) walking the Earth.

I got you both now.

Roy Tarpley, Michael Ray Richardson….

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Your argument is flimsy at best

Look at the graph - what is flimsy about that?

You have 70 years of NBA history where the average age of NBA players on the court NEVER deviates more than a few months away from 26.5 years.....except for a single period from 1990-2003 where it shoots up over 27 years and nearly hitting 28 years. How do you explain that other than by expansion and talent dilution causing teams to hold onto vets for much longer?

As someone pointed out, you can already see that the league was starting to age in the late 80s (possibly due to loss of talent due to the rising cocaine epidemic), but the very first time it made that jump over 27 years was in 89/90, the exact season the Timberwolves/Magic were added immediately after the Heat/Hornets had been added....then there's a second big jump in 96, the exact season the Raptors/Grizzlies were added, and it took the NBA six years to recover from that and start dropping back down to normal ages.

By '20/'21, we're back down to the lowest average age in league history....and you don't think the fact that there hasn't been an expansion in 20 years and only 1 expansion team in 28 years has something to do with that? Not to mention the influx of foreign talent and the generally superior job of identifying and guiding talent from an early age no matter where they're from, so you aren't losing great ballers to the streets like they used to.

 

[Erratic415]

This SI article from 96’ goes into it as well.

MJ always insists that Hakeem is not a center

Toy Story

All you really need to know about the NBA season was captured in one brief and seemingly inconsequential sequence at USAir Arena in Landover, Md., on Jan. 15.

vault.si.com

 

[Osmosis]

Anybody with half a brain knows the 1990s is the weakest decade in modern NBA history. Those that disagree are blinded by nostalgia or their agendas.