Renting and reinvesting the savings from renting, will outperform owning and building equity

Mike Ock

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I think the only way for OP to prove his point strongly is if he compares renting vs buying in one specific location with the house and apt being the same size and both having the same amenities(beds, bath and parking).

Houses are usually bigger, have parking...and if home owner hits hard times in both scenarios, theres alway an option to rent or sublease a bedroom for the extra income. But any rent prices should have taxes accounted for in them.
 

UpNext

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So the $88K I've invested since 2019 that turned into $168K total (up $80K in 6 years or 90%) is less valuable than his $36K in equity? You're really gonna sit up here and say that?

Do you understand how compound interest works? The longer you allow it to compound the greater it grows.

Those stocks aren't a retirement account it's just something I do with my spare money. I could decide today to liquidate it all combine it with my cash savings and buy a home putting all of it down with little to no mortgage on such a house out here.

You seem to think the equity in his house is more valuable than my investment portfolio equity. I completely disagree. My investments also put out $1200 a year annually in dividends. When I do buy a house I can take the income produced there and put it on the house mortgage trimming time off my loan if I choose.

His home is a dead asset that cost him annual taxes, insurance, maintenance and when he goes to sell will have a commission he has to pay on it. Thats not even getting to the interest that will have been paid on the home.

My stocks cost me nothing but the capital gains taxes on the dividends and the capital gains when I sell.
Nope I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that while you invested 88K in the market, he invested 33K into a house. That leaves 55K left over. Let's give you the advantage and say your rent was somehow $250 cheaper per month. After 6 years that's about 18K. We subtract that 18K from the 55K and the homeowner puts in 37,000 into the market and it does what your return does and now he's sitting on about 72,000 in the market. He has the extra 36,000 in equity from his house and he also will eventually get about another 38,000 since that 33K he paid into the house + the mortgage he's paying isn't just flushing money down the drain the way renting is.


So after 6 years that gives you a 168K networth vs his 146K networth. So right now you have a 22,000 advantage and we're gonna assume the cash on hand and retirement accounts are equal so it still winds up being a 22K gap.


Now you're trying to buy the house he bought for 168K on 3.5% interest with 60,000 down on 204K with 7% interest. As the math above shows, your monthly payment for the next 24 years will now be $400 greater than his because you waited so over the next 24 years he will have put an extra $115,200 into the market. Then because you waited he pays his house off so for the 6 years following that he will have been able to put an extra 72,000 into the market so that's an extra 187k in the market for him that your $250 advantage will have to overcome since you waited 6 years to buy.

Also he put 33,000 (20%) down in his initial investment while you put 60,000. That's 27K he has allocated to the market vs house for you. Also, because you waited and the interest rates are what they are in 2025 vs what they were in 2019, the breh probably has another 6 figures in his pocket vs you just off that alone. You're paying higher interest on a higher priced asset over 30 years. Another hill your $250 per month for 6 year advantage has to climb.

The point of all this is that you have a small advantage in the short term by renting at $250 cheaper, but eventually his monthly housing expenses will be lower than yours and it will stay lower than yours and the gap in what y'all pay per month in housing will continue to grow until you buy a house and that gap will exist until you pay off a house. In the long term, the breh is mopping you up.

You're also disadvantaged in that the breh's emergency savings can be smaller than yours so that's again more money he can perpetually invest in the market.
 
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Mordith

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So the $88K I've invested since 2019 that turned into $168K total (up $80K in 6 years or 90%) is less valuable than his $36K in equity? You're really gonna sit up here and say that?

Do you understand how compound interest works? The longer you allow it to compound the greater it grows.

Those stocks aren't a retirement account it's just something I do with my spare money. I could decide today to liquidate it all combine it with my cash savings and buy a home putting all of it down with little to no mortgage on such a house out here.

You seem to think the equity in his house is more valuable than my investment portfolio equity. I completely disagree. My investments also put out $1200 a year annually in dividends. When I do buy a house I can take the income produced there and put it on the house mortgage trimming time off my loan if I choose.

His home is a dead asset that cost him annual taxes, insurance, maintenance and when he goes to sell will have a commission he has to pay on it. Thats not even getting to the interest that will have been paid on the home.

My stocks cost me nothing but the capital gains taxes on the dividends and the capital gains when I sell.


Here's my 1st home that I sold in 2020 and received 103k tax free after 3 years of ownership.



Here's my current house.

I don't go back and forth with nikkas on here who can't back up the shyt that they post....:sas2:

Post a pic of your apartment that you pay $600 a month for. :sas1:
 
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winb83

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I think the only way for OP to prove his point strongly is if he compares renting vs buying in one specific location with the house and apt being the same size and both having the same amenities(beds, bath and parking).

Houses are usually bigger, have parking...and if home owner hits hard times in both scenarios, theres alway an option to rent or sublease a bedroom for the extra income. But any rent prices should have taxes accounted for in them.
In the end it all depend on your area and situation. My rent is somewhere close to 15% of my after tax take home pay. My fixed cost bills all combined with rent are 28% of my after tax pay. I save about 22%, Invest 20% and use 30% of it for food, entertainment, and random wants.

I'm living in a balance right now of about 40% savings and investing, 30% living expenses, and 30% whatever. Getting a home would really upset that dynamic. I can live somewhat irresponsibly now and still be saving and investing 40% of my income responsibly. Get a home and I'm sure just my housing cost would go from 15% to at least 28-30%.
 

dblive

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Emotional motherfukkers :laff:

I rent. My equity in the stock market (brokerage, 401k, HSA, Roth) beats the equity in your house

What return did you make off your mortgage interest and tax and insurance and maintenance?

:mjlol:
Respectfully, most people that own their homes have occupations that also allow for pensions, 401k’s, annuities and the use of other financial instruments to increase their wealth outside of their home equity. That’s just a piece
 

Conan

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Respectfully, most people that own their homes have occupations that also allow for pensions, 401k’s, annuities and the use of other financial instruments to increase their wealth outside of their home equity. That’s just a piece

Respectfully, if someone is trying to stunt using their unrealized home equity, I'm well within my rights to stunt back with my net worth that I'm sure gulfs theirs, even with said equity of theirs.

And I know it's not an either or. The point is, you can be good financially buying a house. You can also be good financially renting. Run the numbers and determine what works best for you. It depends.
 

dblive

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Respectfully, if someone is trying to stunt using their unrealized home equity, I'm well within my rights to stunt back with my net worth that I'm sure gulfs theirs, even with said equity of theirs.

And I know it's not an either or. The point is, you can be good financially buying a house. You can also be good financially renting. Run the numbers and determine what works best for you. It depends.
Ehh, what you’re saying is either anecdotal or personal confirmation bias at best. What you’re stating is the exception, not the rule. I commend your financial acumen in your accumulation of a significant net worth. However, there have been various studies in the U.S. that indicate home ownership is the primary vehicle for net worth accumulation. Which is part of the reason blacks in America have < 4% of the total net worth of this country. It’s because of the previous generations of laws that locked us out of home ownership.
 

winb83

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Respectfully, if someone is trying to stunt using their unrealized home equity, I'm well within my rights to stunt back with my net worth that I'm sure gulfs theirs, even with said equity of theirs.

And I know it's not an either or. The point is, you can be good financially buying a house. You can also be good financially renting. Run the numbers and determine what works best for you. It depends.
People have been brainwashed to believe that home ownership is the only avenue to living.

It's the same way a father with 2 young kids starts talking about needing an SUV when for generations kids got by in full-sized sedans.
 

maxamusa

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A stock portfolio doesn't cost you money to own. A home does.

My rent doesn't get me any return but that's not the point. My rent is part of a strategy to minimize my cost of living and maximize what I can do with my income from my job.

A home that you live in is not an investment. Your equity is meaningless unless you sell or borrow against it. Any day I can decide to liquidate part of my portfolio and do as I see fit with it adding no debt and not impacting where I stay.

If you were talking an investment property you own and rent out that's completely different than a home you live in that cost you money instead of producing income.

can you explain that? home values increase .......
 

winb83

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can you explain that? home values increase .......
An investment is something you buy or put money into for the financial return. The your primary residence you buy to live in is not something you've bought for the financial return it's a place you've bought to live in. Any possible financial return is an added benefit but not the point of the purchase. In order to even extract that value you either have to sell the home, rent out space in your home, or take on debt. Most of those things are a negative in the face of why you've bought the home.
 

Conan

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can you explain that? home values increase .......

I'll give it a shot.

Primary homes (homes you buy to live in) are mediocre investments. Yes, they appreciate over time. However, they are illiquid. You can only tap the equity upon sale, or through a HELOC (expensive, volatile). They (most of the time) generate zero cash flow. To buy them you gotta pay a lot in closing fees. To own them you gotta pay a lot in taxes and maintenance to keep them in shape. While owning, you pay a shyt ton in interest to the bank. When you sell them, you pay a lot in closing fees. They're vulnerable to natural disasters.

Basically, you're just hoping that when you sell, you come out ahead. But guess what happens when you sell? You gotta buy another house or rent.


Now, housing is an absolute need. Whether you rent or buy, you need a roof over your head. I see a primary home as an expense, more than an investment. Yes I hope it appreciates, but the primary value of a home is hedging against housing cost inflation (to some extent, given property tax/home insurance/maintenance increments). If I am looking for what brings the best return to my pocket I would rather invest in a personal business or the broad stock market or even REITs that are built around commercial real estate businesses.

So yes, a primary home is an investment. But do people sit down and run the numbers and be completely rational when buying a home, the same way they do when buying into any other investment? No. There's a level of irrationality when it comes to buying/owning a primary home that makes it sub-optimal from an investment perspective.

But, there is NOTHING wrong with saying, "fukk all this noise, I WANT a house". Then cool, buy and don't overstretch yourself. I buy vinyl because I want to. They may appreciate over time but I don't call them investments.
 

Rn.

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So a mortgage increases because of taxes increases due to property values increasing but your rent increases cause your landlord says so. Using your logic I'd definitely rather be a home owner.
The harsh reality is that the renter is almost always getting fleeced way more than the owner. I'm not sure how coli brehs have tricked themselves into thinking the opposite
 

Conan

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So a mortgage increases because of taxes increases due to property values increasing but your rent increases cause your landlord says so. Using your logic I'd definitely rather be a home owner.

Another fallacy.

Rent increases or decreases because the market dictates this.

In Austin and Denver, rents have decreased because of the flood of new apartments into the market. If the average rent in Austin is $2500, then if you are a landlord charging $3500 for an average apartment, your apartment will remain empty.

And it's easy to see how rents are trending over time in a region, making it a predictable cost. Landlords aren't idiots. They want to minimize vacancies and turnover costs. So they have a vested interest in increasing rents only as much as the market around them will allow.
 
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