Real talk, I wish there were more "serious" conservative posters here

[acri1]

Diversity is good, right?

It'd be cool to actually have posters on here giving legitimate arguments in favor of right-wing policies. Might be interesting to have a legit debate with a right-winger that actually has rational arguments (if there are such people). The closest thing we have on here would be complaints about Obama (or other Democrats), but we don't have many posters actually advocating for conservative policies. I'd be interested in hearing the intellectual arguments for things like neocon foreign policy, lower taxes for the wealthy, etc.

It seems like just about all of the (few) right wing posters on here are either trolls, paranoid conspiracy theorists, adhominem-ers ("You're a lazy bum that wants to leech off the government!") or people that just repeat what they heard on FOX News last night.

If anybody here posts on other boards with more serious conservatives they should invite them here

 

[Shogun]

from what I've found, any attempt at a serious conservative post gets immediately passed off as a talking point.

That, and the current republican party is impossible to defend.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I mean, but what really is a "conservative" anymore? For the past 3 decades or so, conservatism in terms of the left-right mainstream political axis has been mostly centered around 3 things: religious conservative social values, aggressive neocon foreign policy, and supply side economics.

Social values:

Foreign policy: Aggressive foreign policy seems to be pretty much bipartisan as it has been since WW2. But the neocon brand was hugely discredited after the Iraq War.

Supply side economics: It's been proven to not work thoroughly.

It's hard to take people who still cling to those ideas seriously. The type of people who call themselves conservatives based on fiscal restraint and are not neocon war-mongers or jesus freaks like George Will, Kathleen Parker, and Andrew Sullivan are probably mostly Obama voters now.

There's some more libertarian paleoconservative-minded people here, but http://www.the-coli.com/higher-lear...verything-since-2008-thread.html#.UGjn1K74KU0

It's really hard to take what has passed for conservative (as defined by the Republican party) for the past 3 decades or so seriously anymore. They keep trying to call themselves fiscally conservative, but the Democrats have been the more fiscally conservative of the two parties since about the late 70's. They need to redefine themselves. Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan as their face right now is not a good look...neither is Hannity, Limbaugh, Levin, Savage, etc.

 

[No1]

They are here. It's just that you guys would all just jump down their throats. I don't think you all realize sometimes how hostile you all are to contrary opinions. VVD is the prime example of it as evidenced by the post he just wrote.

I have lots of conservative or moderate/center-right friends that would make very good arguments. Then again, two of them are now Democrats. But as a whole this board needs to allow for comedy (don't be so upset with the Mowglis of the world...I promise, I've never let trolling get out of hand), and (b) not be so aggressive. Here's the thing, if all of you posted the way you talk on the podcast, it would be a more welcoming environment.

Being on a messageboard brings aggressive attitudes out of people that is not necessarily reflective of how they conduct themselves on a daily basis.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

They are here. It's just that you guys would all just jump down their throats. I don't think you all realize sometimes how hostile you all are to contrary opinions. VVD is the prime example of it as evidenced by the post he just wrote.

I have lots of conservative or moderate/center-right friends that would make very good arguments. Then again, two of them are now Democrats. But as a whole this board needs to allow for comedy (don't be so upset with the Mowglis of the world...I promise, I've never let trolling get out of hand), and (b) not be so aggressive. Here's the thing, if all of you posted the way you talk on the podcast, it would be a more welcoming environment.

Being on a messageboard brings aggressive attitudes out of people that is not necessarily reflective of how they conduct themselves on a daily basis.

What was hostile about what I just typed? I'm saying what has passed for conservatism for the past 3 decades or so has been religious social values, neocon foreign policy, and supply side economics. Do you not agree that those things have been thoroughly discredited?

Many would argue that those things do no define conservatism and there is merit to that, that's why I asked the question what really is a conservative anymore and feel they need redefinition.

And for the record, that dude OGC whatever is conservative on fiscal matters and nobody's really hostile him because he's not a moron and he supports his arguments with data..

 

[No1]

What was hostile about what I just typed? I'm saying what has passed for conservatism for the past 3 decades or so has been religious social values, neocon foreign policy, and supply side economics. Do you not agree that those things have been thoroughly discredited?

Many would argue that those things do no define conservatism and there is merit to that, that's why I asked the question what really is a conservative anymore and feel they need redefinition.

And for the record, that dude OGC whatever is conservative on fiscal matters and nobody's really hostile him because he's not a moron and he supports his arguments with data..

Instead of addressing the premise of what acri said, instead you went into a spiel about dissecting conservatism and its merits and about "what does it even mean anymore?" You automatically put anyone who wants to post anything conservative on the defensive. They come into the thread having to defend conservatism in its totality. Most people who are conservative are not entirely so. It's most on specific issues or in regards to specific things.

But more importantly, that would be like me wanting onto a conservative talk show and being hit with a string of things wrong with liberalism and then being asked, "given all these things, why are you a liberal and what is liberalism?" It's just a loaded ass proposition.

"It's hard to take these people seriously", etc., etc. It's like you guys have no skills in how to actually pull a debate out of someone. You don't start from the position of completely attacking their entire value system or creating the dichotomy that you did. Whether I believe it to be true or not, I've won more debates by treating people's opinions earnestly and then eventually talking them down then coming at them like

I'm not even trying to come at you personally, but you and the vast majority of HL posters enter every debate and argument with your guns loaded.

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

As one of the few conservative posters here, any actual attempt at criticism becomes another thread of name calling and juvenile insults. You people aren't trying to hear a different viewpoint, just more cosigning of your boy Obama and his hideous policies.

 

[Gallo]

I understand your attempt to bring civility to this board Barnone but don't forget this is a Hip Hop site that interviews porn actresses on its front page on occasion. This is wolf territory and our debating is a little influenced by hip hop bravado and the like. I'm sure these soft pandas can find some other more civil websites to bark on.

 

[Demon]

A conservative that wasn't a troll wouldn't last more than a day in this place.

I'd like to see alot more independents. My personal political beliefs go all over the board. From far left, to far right.

fukk clinging to a party.

This subforum is full of Obama cockslobbers

 

[acri1]

As one of the few conservative posters here, any actual attempt at criticism becomes another thread of name calling and juvenile insults. You people aren't trying to hear a different viewpoint, just more cosigning of your boy Obama and his hideous policies.

I'm not sure I've ever seen you actually argue in favor any conservative policies, your threads are mostly just anti-Obama rather than pro-anything.

Complaining about any and everything Obama does isn't advocating anything.

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

I'm not sure I've ever seen you actually argue in favor any conservative policies.

Complaining about any and everything Obama does isn't advocating anything.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

 

[No1]

I understand your attempt to bring civility to this board Barnone but don't forget this is a Hip Hop site that interviews porn actresses on its front page on occasion. This is wolf territory and our debating is a little influenced by hip hop bravado and the like. I'm sure these soft pandas can find some other more civil websites to bark on.

It's not even just civility. It's boredom. The best threads we've had on here are when people with different viewpoints start getting in and people who don't usually post here. Look @ the Lupe thread, look at the thread on the role of black americans and shared identity or not? Etc.,

Plain and simple, the board is better when it does not involve the usual cast of characters. It makes the rest of us better posters too because you can't just laugh and dismiss someone as a caricature.

I already know that in any given thread if The Real, daze, VVD, Serious and some others have posted then anything I would've said is already covered.

That's not Higher Learning, that's Higher General Concensus.

 

[acri1]

Then you haven't been paying attention.

Fair enough. In that case:

Without mentioning Obama/Democrats, what do you think the government should actually do (if anything) to stimulate the economy?

What would you like to see in terms of US foreign policy?

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Instead of addressing the premise of what acri said, instead you went into a spiel about dissecting conservatism and its merits and about "what does it even mean anymore?"

I did address what he said directly. It is a perfectly good question to ask what is a conservative anymore when the party that is billed as the party of fiscal conservatism and their mouthpieces has been less fiscally conservative than the supposed party of big reckless spending for at least a couple of decades now. Conservatism is at an identity-confused crossroads right now. That's my point.

A serious conservative isn't going to say you hurt my feelings so I'm gonna take my ball and go home. They would hopefully expound on that.

You automatically put anyone who wants to post anything conservative on the defensive. They come into the thread having to defend conservatism in its totality. Most people who are conservative are not entirely so. It's most on specific issues or in regards to specific things.

There's nothing wrong with aggressive vigorous debate. I didn't call anybody any names. I pointed out specific tenets of what has passed as conservatism in recent years and called into question their credibility. And I even said that many would argue those particular tenets (aggressive neocon foreign policy, supply side economics, evangelical social issues) are not conservative. I don't see your point.

I am interested in fleshing out exactly what "conservative" means in 2012. Whether that "puts someone on the defensive" or not is irrelevant. Any time politics are discussed, people should be put on the defensive.

But more importantly, that would be like me wanting onto a conservative talk show and being hit with a string of things wrong with liberalism and then being asked, "given all these things, why are you a liberal and what is liberalism?" It's just a loaded ass proposition. "It's hard to take these people seriously", etc., etc. It's like you guys have no skills in how to actually pull a debate out of someone. You don't start from the position of completely attacking their entire value system or creating the dichotomy that you did. Whether I believe it to be true or not, I've won more debates by treating people's opinions earnestly and then eventually talking them down then coming at them like

I'm not even trying to come at you personally, but you and the vast majority of HL posters enter every debate and argument with your guns loaded.

I didn't say it's hard to take these people seriously. I said it's hard to take specific positions and policies seriously based on empirical data. That doesn't mean the term conservative is meaningless and anyone who calls themself a conservative can't be taken seriously. Many people who call themselves conservative would agree with what I said in many respects regarding the fiscal, social, and foreign policy matters I mentioned. That's my point. I'm saying there probably is a disconnect between what some conservatives would define as conservative and what is billed as conservatism by the right's loudest talkers.

And regarding people having their guns loaded or whatever, that's the tone of the site. It's not endemic to the liberal side of the aisle. You cannot honestly act is if the liberal posters here are more hostile or acerbic than the conservatives ones. We just outnumber them. They're just as abrasive as anyone else though...except Sly, and he is sometimes. Meta Reign? Has he ever made a post where he wasn't insulting someone? Gundam? KingpinOG? Come on.

 

[Slystallion]

Only conservatives that would be considered serious here would be of the Charlie Crist variety who apologize on behalf of conservative beliefs.

To sit here and just spout out supply side economics doesn't work doesn't prove anything. Economics is a soft science so none of those theories can be proven because you can't test them in a controlled environment.

So then both parties end up displaying data to bolster their case and data can be used to say almost anything you want at some point.