Rappers With Unlimited Flows

[Murkman]

Stupid ass phone forced the early quote.
No.
Hov effortlessly bit and watered down Jaz O and Young Chris flows, among people.

So 2 out of over hundreds of flows he still came up with is where you draw the line?

Tell me a track on RD, that sounds like Jaz influenced it. Because they both changed their styles away from that Fu Schikens/Das flow shyt. Jaz for example for some reason became rhyme dense as hell like KGR was, so he doesn't leave a lot of rests in his flows (cramming syllables in every bar). In turn, that means his cadences don't leave any space to something more rhythmically interesting. Their styles in this way aren't even similar, as Hov isn't known for that.

@stomachlines can probably vouch for what I'm articulating in another way.

For Young Chris, you know that rappers don't have "Whisper flows"?

Anyone who knows how music works, acknowledges the physiology of vocals. Whispering has nothing to do rhythm, that's all in your vocal inflection and overall tone - as you're lowering the dynamic range of your voice at a barely audible pitch. Regardless no matter how loud or quiet your voice is, your pulse of time is held constant (for example you're breathing actively, even when you're not speaking.) Try it yourself and whisper a rap line, notice your vocals change - not the meter, tempo, sequence or syncing of it.

So that's 2 rappers whose flows (well Chris's vocal delivery), in reality he didn't bite as one bit another, while the other had a vocal effect. At this point, you might feel tempted to utter Biggie out of nowhere, but we both know they don't even flow in the same manner.

Biggie, Jaz and Chris, etc. aren't known for switching their cadences constantly in verses. Unless you name other emcees at the time who do that form of a habit, that's where the "biting flows" accusations end.


I've also seen UGK stans say he bit Bun B, when New Yorkers came up with double-time a decade before they even popped off.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

@bigbadbossup2012

You're talking about their deliveries......Being "aggressive" and all that popping a vein shyt.

Lmao, this is about rhythms which is what @stomachlines meant, not what you do with your voice. We all know as fact that Hov doesn't have the most aggressive voice in Rap, so why compare the 2?

And, so what if Pac was aggressive?
EVERY 90's rapper was gonna spit like him?
Nobody in their vocal performance was outdoing him in that category.

Pac had a few flow styles, his deliveries on the other hand...

What's your definition flows vs deliveries ?
And i wasnt saying Jay HAD TO SOUND LIKE HIM.
I'm saying that smooth shyt jay does could also be done by pac + he could do the raw shyt. Which means he could do more

Dont even bother reasoning with the nose ring Alize brigade. All you gonna do is activate their hate

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

So 2 out of over hundreds of flows he still came up with is where you draw the line?

Tell me a track on RD, that sounds like Jaz influenced it. Because they both changed their styles away from that Fu Schikens/Das flow shyt. Jaz for example for some reason became rhyme dense as hell like KGR was, so he doesn't leave a lot of rests in his flows (cramming syllables in every bar). In turn, that means his cadences don't leave any space to something more rhythmically interesting. Their styles in this way aren't even similar, as Hov isn't known for that.

@stomachlines can probably vouch for what I'm articulating in another way.

For Young Chris, you know that rappers don't have "Whisper flows"?

Anyone who knows how music works, acknowledges the physiology of vocals. Whispering has nothing to do rhythm, that's all in your vocal inflection and overall tone - as you're lowering the dynamic range of your voice at a barely audible pitch. Regardless no matter how loud or quiet your voice is, your pulse of time is held constant (for example you're breathing actively, even when you're not speaking.) Try it yourself and whisper a rap line, notice your vocals change - not the meter, tempo, sequence or syncing of it.

So that's 2 rappers whose flows (well Chris's vocal delivery), in reality he didn't bite as one bit another, while the other had a vocal effect. At this point, you might feel tempted to utter Biggie out of nowhere, but we both know they don't even flow in the same manner.

Biggie, Jaz and Chris, etc. aren't known for switching their cadences constantly in verses. Unless you name other emcees at the time who do that form of a habit, that's where the "biting flows" accusations end.


I've also seen UGK stans say he bit Bun B, when New Yorkers came up with double-time a decade before they even popped off.

I'm not even talking about the "whisper" thing and you're obviously not familiar with Jaz O or Chris's individual music enough to make that determination.
Do you even rap? If not, we can't have this discussion...you're going into technical detail about something I do, and I notice things that people who don't rap...don't notice. Hov steals PATTERNS and FLOWS...he has a boring, dry voice. Is he wack? Nope...one of the GOATS...son is still a slave to subliminal influence

He sounds like a weaker version of both the rappers here




Stole the whole cadence off of these nikkas song, basically copypasted it.

Took this hook


Young Chris BEEN had this flow, I bet you don't know how old this song is, do you? I uploaded it and it's a lot older than the upload date.
Swizz stopped making "these" kind of beats a long time ago. Mixtapes stopped sounding like this a long time ago

 

[Murkman]

What's your definition flows vs deliveries ?
And i wasnt saying Jay HAD TO SOUND LIKE HIM.
I'm saying that smooth shyt jay does could also be done by pac + he could do the raw shyt. Which means he could do more

You forgot the times Jay had a hard ass and imposing Rap voice and at certain times had to be? He couldn't just be some Benstein-sounding New Yorker.

That's something most emcees have in the way they express themselves.

Well given we all are talking about music, this shouldn't be rocket science to you guys.
I'll even break this down to the words themselves and their intended meanings.

Your "delivery" is what you vocally bring to a track, with an already preset attitude.
This has to do with inflection, accents, dynamics, dialect, personas/alter egos, etc. What I mentioned with Pac, specifically has do with tone of voice, which he was renowned for being extremely vociferous, disruptive and "aggressive" like you said.

Even when his voice is at "inside voice" levels, you can anticipate him raising his voice in some places. If you're gonna "sound like someone" delivery is the primary red flag, that's inarguable.

Flow is a LOT more complex and requires a working understanding of how rhythms function in music. I doubt the Coli knows how things like polyrhythms, time signatures, tempos, cadences (what that actually means), syncing, meter, etc. are and how those facets of the element of rhythm all have different attributes. So, I'm gonna leave that nerdy "Cac shyt" (they would call it probably?) right there for your interpretation.



If the Coli won't take users @PhonZhi seriously on his knowledge of rhyme schemes, what makes you think a majority of users on here really know what they are talking about when it comes to flows? That's an area I know a lot about myself, as a musician and studied music theory until I got sick of it. Anyone who takes Rap seriously, would consider the knowledge it takes behind something as difficult to comprehend like rhythm.

It takes years, sometimes decades to actively listen for things you notice rappers do rhythmically in terms of their style.

 

[Murkman]

He sounds like a weaker version of both the rappers here

That's ironic given Sauce Money reminds me of how Nas raps, and like I said earlier Jaz took a KGR approach to that whom was an emcee that made that style popular - stuffing your lines with multis and nonstop breath control in flows. That's the same style rappers like Pun, Rugged Man, etc. ran off with all the time, do you see anyone calling them biters?

On Camp Lo, interesting so you're now out of nowhere mentioning Bronx rappers he has no association with?

And no I don't rap, I was unaware you had to be a psychic and rapper before taking courses on music to know how it works in general using the same principles like every other genre.

So, with that exclusitivity bias as if that matters. If I'm not a rapper myself, but know music in general I can't offer my own perspective on how it extends to Rap?

Well then let me share something most of the Coli doesn't know. Do you know that the East Coast made enjambment popular as a technique in Rap? That's a staple of nearly all Golden Age East Coast emcees that still goes on today. Rappers with all their arrogance, usually don't know music theory, so if you're a rapper - there are things about rapping you know that I don't and vice versa, nice try.

At one time I used to play Jazz and studied the form and theory behind it.
Jazz (with the "Scat" subgenre) is the precursor to what we now call Rap.

Again on Young Chris, I have to listen to his endless amount of mixtapes to confirm he been had that style?

We're kinda past that realization as common knowledge. Like I said before, that isn't a flow that's a delivery as he's changing how is voice sounds when rapping.

 

[feelosofer]

I think Snoop is underrated in this regard.

 

[Murkman]

@R$G META

Also on things like flows, you are of aware of techniques like articulations right?


Or do you need to be a rapper to know that too? I never hear rappers demonstrate what they know about music theory in general.

Most of the time, your producers and engineers are expected to have a basic, working knowledge of theory (Kanye is an example of one who doesn't, but needed arrangers and composers to score his music sheets on live orchestral performances).

So save me that "Only rappers know how rap works" bullshyt and use another fallacy.
Because I doubt most of them even know how to use Auto-Tune, (which was originally intended to be pitch correction software), instead of a fukking God awful Wall-E impersonation fest of bytch nikka tendencies - who as a result can't sing for shyt.

 

[Zero]

@PhonZhi being cornered by @Sauce Dab and running the fukk away

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

So 2 out of over hundreds of flows he still came up with is where you draw the line?

Tell me a track on RD, that sounds like Jaz influenced it. Because they both changed their styles away from that Fu Schikens/Das flow shyt. Jaz for example for some reason became rhyme dense as hell like KGR was, so he doesn't leave a lot of rests in his flows (cramming syllables in every bar). In turn, that means his cadences don't leave any space to something more rhythmically interesting. Their styles in this way aren't even similar, as Hov isn't known for that.

@stomachlines can probably vouch for what I'm articulating in another way.

For Young Chris, you know that rappers don't have "Whisper flows"?

Anyone who knows how music works, acknowledges the physiology of vocals. Whispering has nothing to do rhythm, that's all in your vocal inflection and overall tone - as you're lowering the dynamic range of your voice at a barely audible pitch. Regardless no matter how loud or quiet your voice is, your pulse of time is held constant (for example you're breathing actively, even when you're not speaking.) Try it yourself and whisper a rap line, notice your vocals change - not the meter, tempo, sequence or syncing of it.

So that's 2 rappers whose flows (well Chris's vocal delivery), in reality he didn't bite as one bit another, while the other had a vocal effect. At this point, you might feel tempted to utter Biggie out of nowhere, but we both know they don't even flow in the same manner.

Biggie, Jaz and Chris, etc. aren't known for switching their cadences constantly in verses. Unless you name other emcees at the time who do that form of a habit, that's where the "biting flows" accusations end.


I've also seen UGK stans say he bit Bun B, when New Yorkers came up with double-time a decade before they even popped off.

You're saying biggie didnt switch up his shyt mid-verse?

 

[MoneyTron]

stays unlocking new flows, theres a even a website dedicated to this

Thugger really the correct answer to this thread.

Unlocking multiple flows within one verse.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Thugger really the correct answer to this thread.

Unlocking multiple flows within one verse.

Tupac is but thugger DOES do that alot,yes

 

[Palm Tree's & Blunts]

Bone and Lord Infamous.

 

[Murkman]

You're saying biggie didnt switch up his shyt mid-verse?

Biggie generally stays within one range of tempo (exception is him rapping fast on tracks like "Gimme The Loot" and "Notorious Thugs"), uses a specific kind of meters, syncs with beats in lockstep and off-kilter rhythms. His type of cadences that almost carries a "Timbs stomping" sequence no matter pace of the beat he flowed to.

Biggie only switched cadences within that style he is known for, which he happened to rap in for near entirety of 3 albums ("Hardcore" is another), so in most cases it sounds similar across the scope of his approach to beats. Sometimes he may sound like he extended a cadence past 2-3 loops, other times he smoothly links in small fragments of measures.
He perfected it, so he didn't need to challenge himself to try other kinds of flow styles, - despite a handful of occasions.
His switching is seamless and more of in the "background" (he prefers to primarily ride the bassline) and didn't bring immediate attention, it was very nuanced.

Puffy wanted him to be more commercial, so why fix what isn't broke to his formula?

 

[Hovlee23]

Wayne

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Biggie generally stays within one range of tempo (exception is him rapping fast on tracks like "Gimme The Loot" and "Notorious Thugs"), uses a specific kind of meters, syncs with beats in lockstep and off-kilter rhythms. His type of cadences that almost carries a "stomping" sequence no matter pace of the beat he flowed to.

Biggie only switched cadences within that style he is known for, which he happened to rap in for near entirety of 3 albums ("Hardcore" is another), so in most cases it sounds similar across the scope of his approach to beats. Sometimes he may sound like he extended a cadence past 2-3 loops, other times he smoothly links in small fragments of measures.
He perfected it, so he didn't need to challenge himself to try other kinds of flow styles, - despite a handful of occasions. His switching is seamless and more of in the "background" (he prefers to primarily ride the bassline) and didn't bring immediate attention.

Puffy wanted him to be more commercial, so why fix what isn't broke to his formula?

So you're saying in order for someone to be considered as "switching up" they have to change their whole tempo, while changing the rhythm or cadence alone doesnt matter?