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Those who rely solely on the eye-test are just as stubborn as those who rely solely on stats.

Ideally you need a mix of both.

I don't think anyone relies solely on the eye test. We just overrule what the stats might say if it conflicts with what we see. Stats really are only useful to me when I DONT watch a game or watch much of the player. If I watched the entire game, I don't care what the stat sheet says, I know who performed and who didn't. If I see a guy play 50+ games a year, I don't care what the stats say, I know what quality of player that person is.

What I have a problem with is guys who want to use stats (as if they're infallible) as the best rock of their arguments.
 

G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman

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Bz6_0jMCQAAvLkK.png


@Blackthoughts do u think this pic is too gay, not gay enough, or just the right amount of gay? :ohhh:

Other Warriors stans, feel free to speak on it
You stay thinking about homosexual activity. You've earned every neg you've got you closet homo you.
 

Draje

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ur right. a random nikka who watches a couple of games here or there isn't reliable. but nba coaches and scouts that watch millions of hours of game tape is alot more reliable than some stat geek just mashing numbers at his desk.

when analytics takes over a team like the Grizzlies, its a problem. when you have dudes like John Hollinger telling established NBA coaches like Lionel Hollins how to do his job, that is a problem.

I got no problem with the information analytics provides. I got a problem when these dudes who never played a second of ball in their lives try to tell dudes who have been in the game for decades how to do their jobs.

remember the new coach for the grizzlies almost quit last year cause he couldn't take how much meddling the analytically driven front office had on his coaching strageties.

Coaches and stuff are great but they're not infallible nor do they always have the best eye for talent, scouting, or how to properly develop players. Look at Presti, Dantoni, Mike Brown, etc.

Not are players always the best judge of their talents or other talents. Josh Smith thinks he can freaking shoot.

You got players like Melo who might be a hard cover on an individual basis so individual players might think highly of his offensive ability but then you got a guy like Lebron who is a far bigger defensive nightmare for a coaching staff. Players might say Melo is a harder cover than Lebron because they're thinking in terms of who to guard in an iso setting but coaches and coordinators will say Lebron is a much harder to plan for. Things like that.

A lot of these analytics are dudes who pour over tape and games too, breh. They're not just looking at a computer and formulas. These are dudes who study basjetball like a cracy and break things down, bit by bit.

Grizzlies actually improved, overall, after the analytics cane into play and showed that letting Rudy Gay would help their team.

Analytics are there to help you put things into context and give people more specific insight on things plus put certain things into a better perspective.

Humans also got a tendency to block out things that don't match what we want to believe which is why stats are useful. I know people who still think Lebron chokes in big moments even if you tell them he's hit more playoff game winners than Kobe in far less seasons.

You got people who think AI is better than Lebron, Durant, or Wade because they romanticize his impact because he's small and they look up to him. You got people who think Kobe who is inefficient or a bad passer despite the fact that he's neither but it goes with their "Kobe is a selfish ballhog mentality".
 

SchoolboyC

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I don't think anyone relies solely on the eye test. We just overrule what the stats might say if it conflicts with what we see. Stats really are only useful to me when I DONT watch a game or watch much of the player. If I watched the entire game, I don't care what the stat sheet says, I know who performed and who didn't. If I see a guy play 50+ games a year, I don't care what the stats say, I know what quality of player that person is.

What I have a problem with is guys who want to use stats (as if they're infallible) as the best rock of their arguments.

So you only view the stats as credible if they back up your opinion, if not then they're meaningless?
 

CrimsonTider

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no. they were absolutely right. analytics is just an attempt by the nerds to try and get into basketball. they lack the knowledge of actually playing the game from the time they were kids, then going to high school, college, and the pros. living and breathing basketball for damn near their entire lives.

I think what they said on open court was true. Its easy for players to manipulate the stat sheet. Hell we've had confirmation from Kevin Durant and LeBron James on this. That they intentionally pass up good looks they would normally take if they're FG% is lacking that game.

I'll trust the basketball knowledge of cats who have been playing, coaching, or involved in basketball for 30 years over some MIT nerds who were cut from their high school JV teams.
Its not one of the other.

Its both to come to best conclusion about a player/team.
 

Ben.

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These guys on open court are sounding so stupid when it comes to analytics in basketball. I don't know wtf Isiah is talking about. Video games?
Yeah that's true, you'd think guys who played basketball a ton would know about the league but truthfully it's the opposite since they just play/played it and barely watch it.

Feel bad for any idiot that puts NBA players opinions on a pedestal.
 

I.V.

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I'm bummed that the feeds are garbage, and that places like NBA.com aren't showing ANY highlights from the foreign teams from these games... I wanted to see my man Cristiano Felicio and Dagan Yivzori doing work.

no. they were absolutely right. analytics is just an attempt by the nerds to try and get into basketball. they lack the knowledge of actually playing the game from the time they were kids, then going to high school, college, and the pros. living and breathing basketball for damn near their entire lives.

I'll trust the basketball knowledge of cats who have been playing, coaching, or involved in basketball for 30 years over some MIT nerds who were cut from their high school JV teams.

I think, in a sport like basketball... analytics have their place as a tool in your scouting/analysis kit. I think there is a lot of really useful information that comes from advance stats and sportVU. I actually DON'T automatically trust somebody that's "been playing, coaching, or involved in basketball for 30 years" because that doesn't mean anything for your ability to do things like pick a roster or project talent. And it has been proven over and over that star players make shytty coaches and GMs.

Also, you are ignoring the fact that a guy that does analytics and works for a team for a decade has been around basketball in the same way that guys who spend their entire career cutting tapes as assistant coaches/front office people do.

The guys that get into the numbers game/analytics of basketball are still hoops heads, they've tailored THEIR skillset to work in the sport.

I don't think you can just look at PER just like you can't JUST look at WAR/VORP. But the information plays a valuable role, and the people that find a way to best incorporate it, will have the edge.

We saw it happen in baseball.

Exum is a long ways off, I expect a pretty shytty rookie year from him, you don't go from playing against Aussie high schoolers to the NBA and do well right away.

Yeah, he's going to take some time. This season will be all about the flashes... and then how he works in the next two off-seasons to bulk up.
 
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So you only view the stats as credible if they back up your opinion, if not then they're meaningless?

yes. i trust my eyes. when i watch kevin love play i see a guy who is decent but nothing special. a slightly better version of ryan anderson. stats however say he's the best PF/big man of the last 10 years. that iw why i trust my eyes over a stat sheet.
 

Dayco23

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yes. i trust my eyes. when i watch kevin love play i see a guy who is decent but nothing special. a slightly better version of ryan anderson. stats however say he's the best PF/big man of the last 10 years. that iw why i trust my eyes over a stat sheet.

By this post you are just proving to everyone that you have never actually watched Kevin Love play.

If you have watched him play, you would be able to see why hes so highly rated. While his PPG and rebounding numbers are the best in the league for a PF, that isn't only what makes him valuable. Watch what he does without the ball in his hands. Watch him move to areas on the court to open driving lanes for his teammates or get himself a wide open look when its not necessarily part of the play design. Look at his passing skills and his ability to put the ball in situations where his team has an advantage over the defense. Notice his timing on when to get rebounding position under the basket for easy put-backs and defensive boards.
There is no other PF that does what Kevin Love can do offensively for his team while having the rebounding skills to go with it. He was able to do all that while being the #1 defensive target for the TWolves. He is a player that you can watch and use your "eye test" to understand and verify his good stats.

Comparing him to Ryan Anderson is just ignorant, insulting, and just another reason why your posts are always trash giving you that WOAT banner.
 

Brozay

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LOL @ 'a slightly better version' of Ryan Anderson

what a fukking joke
 
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