Rand Paul Confronts the GOP's Race Problem

[KingpinOG]

biden and clinton have been behind the biggest legislation related to the war on drugs, and while "the people" on the left may be for decriminalization, there are very few politicians of any stripe that are publicly for decriminalization

Exactly. How many US senators besides Rand Paul speak about the insanity of our drug laws and how it hurts so many people, specifically black people?

But these idiots would rather freak out about a thereotical debate that has no impact on anything currently going on in the world today.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Exactly. How many US senators besides Rand Paul speak about the insanity of our drug laws and how it hurts so many people, specifically black people?

But these idiots would rather freak out about a thereotical debate that has no impact on anything currently going on in the world today.

Wait so you're anti-drug war now Skippy?

 

[theworldismine13]

I never said that segregation was the actual issue at hand. It's an accelerator of racial tension and hatred, which ultimately leads to restricted economic and individual rights in the long-term (that doesn't deflect attention, nor am I saying that segregation is the only cause). I didn't say that black people were trapped exclusively in inner-cities, either. I said that a good amount of blacks are trapped in the inner-cities and in the segregated pockets of the South. Outside of that, there are, of course, black people that live among white populations. That doesn't negate a thing I've said, though. Also, no the government doesn't have the right to tell anyone where to live. However, they did have this power at one time, whether they had the right or not. The truth is that the American government took the influx of blacks from the South migrating to the North and directed them to certain areas of the cities. This has an effect that can be seen today if one chooses to look. Of course, through time some people have branched out from these communities, but unfortunately, it's far fewer than should have in an ideal world.

i wasnt really disagreeing with you, i said it needs to be clarified that segregation is not necessarily bad and it should not be used as a metric

the reason i said the government doesn't have the right to tell people were to live was to protest those policies, i was not saying it didnt happen or that it didnt have a negative effect

i think in this discussion you have to separate government mandated segregation from private segregation because under libertarianism you cant have government mandated segregation, and that is something that i think is positive about libertarianism

the reason why i bring that point it up is that government mandated integration like school busing or affirmative action dont work that great either and when you use segregation as a metric those are the type of policies you come up with

IMO what we need to is focus on economic freedom and individual freedom in black communities to develop the community, that is how progress should be measured, progress shouldn't be measured by the level of segregation, progress should be measured by the the level of economic and individual freedom, i simply wanted to clarify that

 

[theworldismine13]

Where does this fit into the conversation between me and that dude? He didn't accuse Biden, Clinton, Obama, Bush, or any politician of speaking out about Paul's views while not caring about the "War on Drugs." He accused the Left of doing that, which encompasses "the people" of the Left. More directly, he was talking about the people on the Left in this thread, as he was supposedly laughing at our "ignorance." Truth is, as I stated, most people on the Left are against the "War on Drugs," as are most of the Left-leaning people on this forum, much less in this thread. Try again.

im just spreading some facts, it is correct that its not directly related to your conversation but its something people should be aware before they vote, its important to understand that the war on drugs was bi partisan, in fact the members of the congressional black caucus itself was calling for higher penalties for drug crimes at one point

its just something to be aware of

 

[Dyce25]

i wasnt really disagreeing with you, i said it needs to be clarified that segregation is not necessarily bad and it should not be used as a metric

the reason i said the government doesn't have the right to tell people were to live was to protest those policies, i was not saying it didnt happen or that it didnt have a negative effect

i think in this discussion you have to separate government mandated segregation from private segregation because under libertarianism you cant have government mandated segregation, and that is something that i think is positive about libertarianism

the reason why i bring that point it up is that government mandated integration like school busing or affirmative action dont work that great either

IMO what we need to is focus on economic freedom and individual freedom in black communities to develop the community, that is how progress should be measured, progress shouldn't be measured by the level of segregation, progress should be measured by the the level of economic and individual freedom, i simply wanted to clarify that

In theory, you're right. However, the theory doesn't take into account that we're not starting from a clean slate. You can't dismiss the past mandated segregation as if it has no impact on where large populations of black people live today. Thus, if Libertarianism were applied to this issue at the moment, it would only draw black people back to the more densely populated black communities. Some black people like this idea, as do some racist whites obviously, but I would argue that non-integration is a very bad idea for minorities in this country. It would only serve to almost completely trounce any political power of minorities, and subsequently hurt their influence on American culture. America, for so long has been called a "melting pot" (lie) when it has always been a distinct American culture that was supposed to engulf and assimilate other cultures into it. In other words, whites would only acknowledge, respect, and accept you if you were to succumb to their culture. It's well past time for America to completely embrace every INDIVIDUAL'S culture, and I think integration promotes that in everyone's favor. Also, I hope you don't mistake this reply as argumentative at all; that's not my intention.

 

[Dyce25]

im just spreading some facts, it is correct that its not directly related to your conversation but its something people should be aware before they vote, its important to understand that the war on drugs was bi partisan, in fact the members of the congressional black caucus itself was calling for higher penalties for drug crimes at one point

its just something to be aware of

This is true. I just don't see the relevance to the conversation. All politicians with an eye toward the White House have/will contribute to the "War on Drugs" regardless of political party. It's actually just "good politics" when you consider things like 70% of the nation still being Christian (in other words, the masses aren't yet in favor of trying something different). Of course, that doesn't make it right - that much we can absolutely agree on.

 

[Ski Mask]

This is hilarious, a man who supports institutional racism, trying to appeal to black people. That's like Ronald McDonald trying to appeal to health nuts/vegans

 

[theworldismine13]

In theory, you're right. However, the theory doesn't take into account that we're not starting from a clean slate. You can't dismiss the past mandated segregation as if it has no impact on where large populations of black people live today. Thus, if Libertarianism were applied to this issue at the moment, it would only draw black people back to the more densely populated black communities. Some black people like this idea, as do some racist whites obviously, but I would argue that non-integration is a very bad idea for minorities in this country. It would only serve to almost completely trounce any political power of minorities, and subsequently hurt their influence on American culture. America, for so long has been called a "melting pot" (lie) when it has always been a distinct American culture that was supposed to engulf and assimilate other cultures into it. In other words, whites would only acknowledge, respect, and accept you if you were to succumb to their culture. It's well past time for America to complete embrace every INDIVIDUAL'S culture, and I think integration promotes that in everyone's favor. Also, I hope you don't mistake this reply as argumentative at all; that's not my intention.

im not pro or anti segregation, i just dont think the government can ever efficiently manage so called integration

i agree that black people would need to catch up, but IMO that is an internal function of the black community and that is why i wouldnt agree with paul about business having the right to discriminate, because it basically puts economic rights ahead of individual rights (actually its worse than that, what rand is saying is the same fallacy of the citizen's united decision in saying a corporation is a person, libertarians are trying to say any business is a person, which is silly)

individual rights is what protects minorities IMO

the way i see it is the government should just protect economic rights and individual rights of blacks (and native americans for that matter) but ultimately the onus is on black people to develop (assuming the rights are being protected)

i think ultimately you do have to have integration, especially cultural, for the us to survive as a country, if america is just a bunch of people that happen to live within a certain geographic boundary, eventually the US will collapse

but individual and economic rights is a fundamental part of american culture that has to be preserved IMO, so the culture of freedom has to be the foundation of future integration

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

So you agree that integration is a bad thing. So what are these manifestos about?

 

[theworldismine13]

So you agree that integration is a bad thing. So what are these manifestos about?

are you talking to me?

 

[Dyce25]

im not pro or anti segregation, i just dont think the government can ever efficiently manage so called integration

i agree that black people would need to catch up, but IMO that is an internal function of the black community and that is why i wouldnt agree with paul about business having the right to discriminate, because it basically puts economic rights ahead of individual rights (actually its worse than that, what rand is saying is the same fallacy of the citizen's united decision in saying a corporation is a person, libertarians are trying to say any business is a person, which is silly)

individual rights is what protects minorities IMO

the way i see it is the government should just protect economic rights and individual rights of blacks (and native americans for that matter) but ultimately the onus is on black people to develop (assuming the rights are being protected)

i think ultimately you do have to have integration, especially cultural, for the us to survive as a country, if america is just a bunch of people that happen to live within a certain geographic boundary, eventually the US will collapse

but individual and economic rights is a fundamental part of american culture that has to be preserved IMO, so the culture of freedom has to be the foundation of future integration

This is the long-term picture of which I was speaking. I agree that rights need to be preserved in order for this to be achieved, as well. I just disagree on the matter of integration being something that you can "take or leave" at the moment. I guess I'm saying I see it as a more urgent and vital piece of the overall picture if I'm understanding your position correctly.

 

[Mowgli]

O shyt he confronted them? I guess those old raggedy cacs will start embracing non-whites now.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

Not that I agree with the practice, but how does a business that doesn't serve certain races gain or exercise a privilege over others? Seems like they are putting themselves at a huge disadvantage.

Im talking about in a global, macro scale....meaning the market can discriminate freely against blacks w/ little consequence given our limited political, and almost non-existent true economic power. This reality obviously been created throughout our American life as actors, as our current economic status is sort of an artifact of legislative mistreatment and marginalized opportunites. Something libertarians never acknowledge.

Others have covered a sort of micro/indvidualized level....there are many pockets in the south and midwest where blatant discriminatory practices, free from legislative consequence, would be welcomed and embraced by the constituents. I mean, sht, didnt we just have a civil rights movement not that long ago? As a country, we have adopted a governing idea that discrimination is wrong and will be punished. This cant be negotiated given our history. The invisible hand has not proven to push racial biases to the margins...if anything its the opposite.

In short, fck Rand Paul for even entertaining such nonsense.

 

[Dyce25]

O shyt he confronted them? I guess those old raggedy cacs will start embracing non-whites now.

They'll try to draw in minorities. Ultimately, the strategy will obviously be successful, but I'm predicting it'll take a few election cycles. Republicans have done a lot to completely burn their reputation among minorities, and it's gonna take a lot of pandering until a decent amount of the black and overall minority vote will begin to trust them again. The question I really wonder is how long will it take the Republican party to not only pander to but actually respect blacks and minorities?

 

[theworldismine13]

This is the long-term picture of which I was speaking. I agree that rights need to be preserved in order for this to be achieved, as well. I just disagree on the matter of integration being something that you can "take or leave" at the moment. I guess I'm saying I see it as a more urgent and vital piece of the overall picture if I'm understanding your position correctly.

yeah we have to politely disagree on that, like i was saying in the other thread, i think "integration" and "equality" ideologies have intellectually pussified black people and obscured the fact that black people have to make some major changes to catch up