Miles Davis
Prince of Darkness
Damn I'm probably gonna miss the Friday game
That porzingis commercial though
That porzingis commercial though
Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Typical Knicks Fan
- Start date
-
- Tags
- knicks knickstape nba
storyteller
Veteran
Long article about KP being the Center of the future and being comparable to Sheed, it's got a ton of great quotables and really is worth the read. It basically lets you know what the hype is about if you're questioning it while being completely honest with his flaws.
Why Porzingis Could Be the Center of the Future
Why Porzingis Could Be the Center of the Future
Knicksman20
Superstar
Schmeelk: Knicks Need To Give Melo, Afflalo More Time In Post
"The Knicks’ offense is different than it was last season, in almost all ways better. But some recent vestiges of the triangle remain, such as the tendency to originate a lot of offense from the post.
These touches can come from the low post down on the block or on the high post from the elbow. Though mostly mid-range looks come from those spots on the floor, with the right players, a lot of high-percentage shots are possible.
What’s confounding about Derek Fisher is who he puts in those positions to make decisions with the basketball.
Traditionally, big men operate out of the post, so at least on the surface it would make sense for guys like Brook Lopez and Kevin Seraphin to be there. Lopez leads the Knicks in post touches with nearly 5 per game, while Seraphin (in limited minutes) is third with 2.2 per game, according to NBA.com. Neither player shoots a high percentage — Seraphin at 45.5 percent and Lopez at 43.7 percent — but at least Lopez has the sense to pass often after he gets the ball.
Seraphin, meanwhile, has a ridiculously high 25.5 usage percentage, third highest on the team behind Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Williams. Want to be even more depressed? In all those post touches, Seraphin hasn’t attempted a free throw yet this season. It remains a complete mystery why Fisher insists on Seraphin being a go-to player in the post, given his lack of efficient offense.
Kristaps Porzingis checks in with three touches in the post per game, logical considering his good mid-range game and considerable length to shoot over defenders. What makes very little sense is where the Knicks two best post players sit on the list: Anthony and Arron Afflalo.
Despite playing more minutes than anyone, Anthony averages only 1.8 post touches per game. Kyle O’Quinn, Williams and Lance Thomas average nearly as many touches in a fraction of the minutes. Even Lou Amundson sits at 1.2 despite playing sparingly.
Afflalo averages only one touch in the post every two games. The only players with a lower average than Afflalo are the Knicks’ point guards and shooting guards.
When the Knicks play the Heat, Miami made a concerted effort to feed Dwyane Wade in the post, and there is no reason New York can’t do the same with its two smaller post players. Afflalo’s post ability was evident late against the Rockets, when he posted up smaller players and made some turnaround jump shots. He is the only other Knick player other than Anthony that can create his own shot and exploit a mismatch, something too seldom taken advantage of.
Anthony, on the other hand, is often put in a position by Fisher where he has to create shots off the dribble against multiple defenders far away from the basket. He leads the team in elbow touches (nearly 5 per game according to NBA.com), but frequently has to start many of his moves from behind the 3-point line. Anthony has fallen in love with his jumper late in games, and refrains from going to the hoop, keeping his percentages in those situations low. Starting in the post would help buck that trend.
Just because Lopez, Seraphin, O’Quinn and Amundson are tall doesn’t mean they should be the team’s primary post players. That honor should belong to Anthony, Afflalo, Porzingis, and even Williams, especially considering his penchant for drawing fouls.
The obsession with the post isolation for Seraphin has to stop. He might have good foot work down there, a hook shot, and look good making some moves, but he doesn’t make enough shots or get to the line. For someone who gets as many opportunities as he does, it is nearly impossible that someone hasn’t accidentally fouled him by now. He’s also only at best average on defense and on the glass, making his continuing prominence even more confounding.
In the offseason, Phil Jackson and Fisher both talked about penetration a lot. They were right. Good offense begins with the ball going towards the rim. The Knicks don’t have enough quick dribble-drive players, so they need to create penetration other ways. One method is the post. The question is: who would you rather have creating offense down there, Anthony, AAfflalo and Porzingis, or Seraphin, Lopez, O’Quinn and Amundson?
The answer is obvious to everyone except the head coach of the Knicks.
"The Knicks’ offense is different than it was last season, in almost all ways better. But some recent vestiges of the triangle remain, such as the tendency to originate a lot of offense from the post.
These touches can come from the low post down on the block or on the high post from the elbow. Though mostly mid-range looks come from those spots on the floor, with the right players, a lot of high-percentage shots are possible.
What’s confounding about Derek Fisher is who he puts in those positions to make decisions with the basketball.
Traditionally, big men operate out of the post, so at least on the surface it would make sense for guys like Brook Lopez and Kevin Seraphin to be there. Lopez leads the Knicks in post touches with nearly 5 per game, while Seraphin (in limited minutes) is third with 2.2 per game, according to NBA.com. Neither player shoots a high percentage — Seraphin at 45.5 percent and Lopez at 43.7 percent — but at least Lopez has the sense to pass often after he gets the ball.
Seraphin, meanwhile, has a ridiculously high 25.5 usage percentage, third highest on the team behind Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Williams. Want to be even more depressed? In all those post touches, Seraphin hasn’t attempted a free throw yet this season. It remains a complete mystery why Fisher insists on Seraphin being a go-to player in the post, given his lack of efficient offense.
Kristaps Porzingis checks in with three touches in the post per game, logical considering his good mid-range game and considerable length to shoot over defenders. What makes very little sense is where the Knicks two best post players sit on the list: Anthony and Arron Afflalo.
Despite playing more minutes than anyone, Anthony averages only 1.8 post touches per game. Kyle O’Quinn, Williams and Lance Thomas average nearly as many touches in a fraction of the minutes. Even Lou Amundson sits at 1.2 despite playing sparingly.
Afflalo averages only one touch in the post every two games. The only players with a lower average than Afflalo are the Knicks’ point guards and shooting guards.
When the Knicks play the Heat, Miami made a concerted effort to feed Dwyane Wade in the post, and there is no reason New York can’t do the same with its two smaller post players. Afflalo’s post ability was evident late against the Rockets, when he posted up smaller players and made some turnaround jump shots. He is the only other Knick player other than Anthony that can create his own shot and exploit a mismatch, something too seldom taken advantage of.
Anthony, on the other hand, is often put in a position by Fisher where he has to create shots off the dribble against multiple defenders far away from the basket. He leads the team in elbow touches (nearly 5 per game according to NBA.com), but frequently has to start many of his moves from behind the 3-point line. Anthony has fallen in love with his jumper late in games, and refrains from going to the hoop, keeping his percentages in those situations low. Starting in the post would help buck that trend.
Just because Lopez, Seraphin, O’Quinn and Amundson are tall doesn’t mean they should be the team’s primary post players. That honor should belong to Anthony, Afflalo, Porzingis, and even Williams, especially considering his penchant for drawing fouls.
The obsession with the post isolation for Seraphin has to stop. He might have good foot work down there, a hook shot, and look good making some moves, but he doesn’t make enough shots or get to the line. For someone who gets as many opportunities as he does, it is nearly impossible that someone hasn’t accidentally fouled him by now. He’s also only at best average on defense and on the glass, making his continuing prominence even more confounding.
In the offseason, Phil Jackson and Fisher both talked about penetration a lot. They were right. Good offense begins with the ball going towards the rim. The Knicks don’t have enough quick dribble-drive players, so they need to create penetration other ways. One method is the post. The question is: who would you rather have creating offense down there, Anthony, AAfflalo and Porzingis, or Seraphin, Lopez, O’Quinn and Amundson?
The answer is obvious to everyone except the head coach of the Knicks.
Bron wanting to be in GOATzingis commercial:wow12:
GOATzingis got next
:wow13:
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
They're trying to force him on us with over-commercialism because he's a Euro. TrashSPN even said he's comparable to Towns and Okafor. Towns shoots 10.1% better than KP without the benefit of a superstar like 'Melo distracting defenses, giving him open looks. Towns is also a much better defender, better shot-blocker, and a better rebounder. In the article I read from TrashSPN, they were really forcing the narrative that KP is just as good as Towns when Towns is better by a landslide. Where's Karl's commercial?Okafor shoots 3.4% better than KP without the benefit of a superstar like 'Melo distracting defenses, giving him open looks, is a better rebounder and shot-blocker, and is just as good a defender, if not better, because he guards better players than KP does. Where's Okafor's commercial?
KP is a decent defender, an ok rebounder for his size (who gets a lot of help from Rolo's box outs), has a lot of toughness, and a nice kid who I like a lot. That said, he's a poor shooter who shouldn't be taking shots from Arron, Jose, 'Melo, O'Quinn, and Rolo.He's a mediocre player who went off on a soft Charlotte team and was guarded by a Center in Houston who is 5 inches shorter than KP and only has 30 games under his belt. It wasn't like he went off on D12.
He's not a great player like Towns and Okafor yet.Euro's get over-hyped for mediocrity. He's faaaaaaaar from a franchise player who should "get more shots" and be "built around". I didn't jump on the bandwagon when the league started over-commercializing Lj, so why would I do that for KP? I'm not swayed by mass marketing, I'm annoyed by it.
I wish the song were in English because I love the beat and hook. What did you want me to say?
Last edited:
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
I did try to google it myself but kept coming up with the same individual team info you did. I'm trying to find out what the league wide average is. Oh well no biggie....to me that is!
The bolded is most likely true. I've missed a few games this season and rarely catch 1 from start to finish. That said....do you now see how despite charts, stats, graphs, and trends....it's possible for someone to have a different view than you? Perception is a mofo. I saw something and commented on what I saw. You read my comment and got your google on so you could try to refute it. This is why I say stats can be misleading. Ok so as of yesterday NY led in opp 3pt pct. Yet still in timely and key situations, they will give one up. Why is that? What's the stat on that? I don't really care...IJS. And I actually started to write "defend the perimeter" too, but Thornton hitting those timely buckets made me type '3'.
You had a different view, but it was wrong.
No, I didn't Google NY's 3-point defense to refute your comment. I already knew defending the 3 wasn't a weakness of theirs as you claimed. I stated that at least twice to someone else in this very thread before you ever posted your comment. I knew it from watching games, seeing their opponents 3fg% in boxscores, NBA stats, and Bball Reference. I only used that Google reference to make a point that you need to look it up, didn't have to be on Google.
The stat in question cannot and is not misleading. Bad defensive games here and there (which is what you saw) are misleading. To answer your question of why, KP has been giving up a lot of buckets late with all that switching on guards. He gave up 3's to Bosh, which got him going the last time NY played them. Sometimes Gallo will guard mismatches like Lj and Gerald Green and get either torched or in foul trouble. Defense (not from 3) was a problem in the Houston game from start to finish, but defense (from 3 or otherwise) isn't NY's problem, scoring is.
Last edited:
Oh you know
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
Oh you know
See my edit. I hope I answered your questions.
storyteller
Veteran
KP's attention is probably because he's on pace to have an elite rookie season by the numbers.
He's got 4 20/10 games already, making him tied for 6th in 20/10 games as a rookie over the last 30 years. The five ahead of him are Shaq (11), David Robinson (11), Blake Griffin (8), Mutombo (7), Larry Johnson (6)
He's at 8 double doubles through 18 games and in the past 30 years, to crack the top 20 rookies in double doubles he'll need to hit 30 (completely attainable).
Last 10 games he's shooting 44% from the field, 36% from 3. Last 5 it's up to 46% from the field and steady at 36% from 3.
He's on pace to at minimum flirt with a 3 per game along with over 1.5 blocks per game (2 really, he's at 1.9) as a rookie, which like the Sheed article states hasn't ever been achieved. Only two players have pulled that off more than one season in their entire careers.
He has to keep up the pace of course, but the kid is putting up elite numbers for a rookie. There's no handicaps or disclaimers to throw at that, it just is what it is.
He's got 4 20/10 games already, making him tied for 6th in 20/10 games as a rookie over the last 30 years. The five ahead of him are Shaq (11), David Robinson (11), Blake Griffin (8), Mutombo (7), Larry Johnson (6)
He's at 8 double doubles through 18 games and in the past 30 years, to crack the top 20 rookies in double doubles he'll need to hit 30 (completely attainable).
Last 10 games he's shooting 44% from the field, 36% from 3. Last 5 it's up to 46% from the field and steady at 36% from 3.
He's on pace to at minimum flirt with a 3 per game along with over 1.5 blocks per game (2 really, he's at 1.9) as a rookie, which like the Sheed article states hasn't ever been achieved. Only two players have pulled that off more than one season in their entire careers.
He has to keep up the pace of course, but the kid is putting up elite numbers for a rookie. There's no handicaps or disclaimers to throw at that, it just is what it is.
storyteller
Veteran
This is really at the heart of our problems...I know Fisher wants to give freedom to these dudes, but he needs to let them know that the post isn't exclusive to the bigs. I'm not as down on KS though, I prefer KOQ as our back-up C but this guy's a bit harsh.
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
Nah, it's because he's a Euro. The comparisons to those players are just forced narratives to make him look better than he does. He's not having those big games against anyone. His shooting has been poor. 20 points on 39% just means you're chucking and wasting possessions. He was shooting at 38% when Arron was out. Towns and Okafor are killing him on both ends, with no superstars to distract defenses, giving them open looks, no Rolo to box out for them, and while defending better players. Yet, they're not sniffing the attention KP is getting.
Wtf?!Man you know what..... Nevermind
storyteller
Veteran
His FG% in the 4 20+ point games..
1. 29 points, 10/17 FG 58%, 2/2 3pt 100%
2. 24 points, 8/12 FG 67%, 2/3 3pt 67%
3. 20 points, 7/18 FG 39%, 3/5 3pt 60%
4. 20 points, 8/13 FG 61%, 0/1 3pt 0%
93 points, 33/60 FG 55%, 7/11 3pt 63%
You're reaching at this point.
BoogieDown23
MY SON HAS COOKIES!
The War Report
NewNewYork
