Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

obarth

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:mjlol: You prolly look like prodigy's nerd cousin. I got khaki-pleated goons that'll stomp you out in sperry topsiders. I got dudes that keep exactos in their pocket protectors. I'll throw you in the hudson and do your mama's taxes, to make sure she doesn't get screwed out of her proper annuities. I DGAF. I'll run up on your girl and pay for a new york times subscription - the full version, not some weekender bull, I wanna make sure she sees what's happening in the world 7 days a week. Plus the revamped arts section is bomb. You should check it out. I personally think their magazine is better than Time now with some of the recent editorial hires, but I can't call it, man. Your girl is just gonna have to be the judge.

Run up on me, breh. I'll break your collarbone, pay for your ER visit, get you to the best orthopedic surgeon in the city (he fixed Ryan McDonaugh's shoulder! My dad plays squash with his uncle!), I'll comp your physical therapy and work on your resume, to see if we can get you an internship. You know anything about new media? No matter, I'll get somebody to teach you some coding too. My cousin does all the cyber-protection for the TV networks, he goes by Shark Zuckerberg. You ever heard of him?

Do you enjoy smoothies? They just put a juice generation in my neighborhood, blood. After that rumble, you're gonna be dehydrated, and you'll need to replenish nutrients - they got this new guava, orange, and ginger mix. It's a banger. It'll have you back to health in no time. I'll even cop you the whey protein boost if you're looking like you need to put on some weight. I'm way into complex plyometrics lately, I'll link you up with my personal trainer! His name is Vladimir!
I was about to post a Game of Thrones review in the Film Room, but I don't know if I can match this fire:wow:

Save me a plate of that beans and rice, btw:whew:
 

Houston911

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Cookout at my spot this weekend. We gotta celebrate :blessed: Been workin on greens and red beans n rice recipes that's gonna have y'all :feedme:





He looked like he thought this was a good idea RIGHT UP UNTIL the music came on. :sadcam:


:mjlol: You prolly look like prodigy's nerd cousin. I got khaki-pleated goons that'll stomp you out in sperry topsiders. I got dudes that keep exactos in their pocket protectors. I'll throw you in the hudson and do your mama's taxes, to make sure she doesn't get screwed out of her proper annuities. I DGAF. I'll run up on your girl and pay for a new york times subscription - the full version, not some weekender bull, I wanna make sure she sees what's happening in the world 7 days a week. Plus the revamped arts section is bomb. You should check it out. I personally think their magazine is better than Time now with some of the recent editorial hires, but I can't call it, man. Your girl is just gonna have to be the judge.

Run up on me, breh. I'll break your collarbone, pay for your ER visit, get you to the best orthopedic surgeon in the city (he fixed Ryan McDonaugh's shoulder! My dad plays squash with his uncle!), I'll comp your physical therapy and work on your resume, to see if we can get you an internship. You know anything about new media? No matter, I'll get somebody to teach you some coding too. My cousin does all the cyber-protection for the TV networks, he goes by Shark Zuckerberg. You ever heard of him?

Do you enjoy smoothies? They just put a juice generation in my neighborhood, blood. After that rumble, you're gonna be dehydrated, and you'll need to replenish nutrients - they got this new guava, orange, and ginger mix. It's a banger. It'll have you back to health in no time. I'll even cop you the whey protein boost if you're looking like you need to put on some weight. I'm way into complex plyometrics lately, I'll link you up with my personal trainer! His name is Vladimir!

:damn:
 

Derek Lee

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Knicks' Decision to Hire Hornacek a Surprise, but Just What Phil Jackson Wanted
By Howard Beck, NBA Senior Writer May 19, 2016

hi-res-7e8deeba61e831be99db8c813735e802_crop_north.jpg


NEW YORK — If you want to tag along on Phil Jackson's long, strange NBA journey, it's best to tighten your seatbelt, and load up on the Dramamine. The road is twisted, the driver wickedly unpredictable.

There may be jarring detours, through Sioux City, Iowa and the plains of Nebraska, and there's no telling where or how the trip will end.

Or who will be sitting in the passenger seat when it's all over.

Sometime in the last few days, Jackson locked in on Jeff Hornacek as his top choice to coach the New York Knicks, zooming past David Blatt, Frank Vogel and Kurt Rambis, and stunning the entire basketball world in the process.

As B/R first reported Wednesday night, the Knicks and Hornacek are moving toward a deal, though formal contract negotiations had not yet begun. One source monitoring the talks called Hornacek's hiring "a foregone conclusion," saying that all parties "want to make this happen." Another source confirmed, "It's as close as humanly possible."

This was not the conclusion anyone expected.

Rambis was widely viewed as Jackson's top choice, because of their longtime friendship and Rambis' embrace of Jackson's offensive system, the triangle offense. Blatt had Madison Square Garden ties and a sturdy resume, Vogel a bright mind and a winning record.

But Hornacek? He has no ties to Jackson, no triangle training, and his record is modest.

This, dear reader, would be a good time to drop the Dramamine—or something stronger, if you've got it.

Jackson has never been a linear thinker. He goes where his impulses take him, seeking connections that are apparent only to him.

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Noah K. Murray-USA TODAY Sports


Hiring Hornacek, 53, who was fired by the Phoenix Suns in February, makes no sense, in general terms. Hiring Hornacek makes perfect sense, through the Phil Jackson prism.

What Jackson values most—in both players and coaches—is an intellectual heft, an ability to think the game, and in Hornacek he saw an analytical mind whose basketball values are in line with his.

"Intellectual capacity matters," said one person with insight into Jackson's decision—and now, more than ever, in an NBA shaped by advanced statistics, player tracking technology and sports science.

Though the two hardly know each other, Hornacek earned Jackson's admiration long ago, when Jackson was coaching the Chicago Bulls and Hornacek was firing three-pointers in Phoenix and Utah. There was much to admire: Hornacek arrived as a marginal player, the 46th pick in the 1986 draft, and carved out a career as an elite shooter.

The Bulls and Jazz dueled in consecutive NBA Finals, in 1997 and 1998, giving Jackson an up-close appreciation for Hornacek's cerebral game. It matters, too, that Hornacek played for Jerry Sloan, whose tenacity and offensive system Jackson openly admired.

Put simply, Hornacek has the right pedigree.

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JEFF HAYNES/Getty Images


No, Hornacek is not a triangle disciple. But Jackson has always been more open to change than his many skeptics understood.

"System basketball" is the phrase Jackson used when he was hired as Knicks president in 2014, and again, repeatedly, when he sat down with B/R for a story last spring. Jackson's basketball values are rooted in ball and player movement, reading and reacting, thinking.

He wants all five players involved—not one star isolating on the wing, and four standing idly by. He considers the pick-and-roll a healthy option, not the basis for an entire offense. He favors a system that provides structure, but allows freedom of expression within that structure—rather than relying on a coach dictating every set.

The triangle provided the template for 11 championship runs, in Chicago and Los Angeles, but it is not the only system Jackson could embrace. He has praised the motion offense used by Gregg Popovich in San Antonio, and by his former protégé Steve Kerr in Golden State.

League sources indicate that the Knicks under Hornacek will indeed move away from a pure triangle approach, but will retain triangle elements (as many NBA offenses do).

"He wants a system of play," one source said of Jackson, "so that when he walks away, when you look at the New York Knicks, you say, 'OK, I understand how the Knicks play basketball.' "

That's the legacy Jackson desires, whether he departs next spring (via an opt-out clause) or in three years, when his contract ends.

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Elsa/Getty Images


The Knicks had no shortage of coaching options. Team officials were confident that each of their top candidates—Hornacek, Blatt, Vogel and Rambis—would take the job if offered, according to sources.

Though reports of Hornacek's interview with Jackson surfaced just this week, he was, in fact, the first person Jackson scheduled when this search began, just after the season ended last month, per league sources.

Vogel, then coaching the playoff-bound Indiana Pacers, was not yet available. Luke Walton, a Jackson protégé and assistant to Kerr, eliminated himself from consideration early on, then took the Los Angeles Lakers job.

Though Rambis was widely viewed as the favorite (including by many within the Knicks organization), team officials were leaning toward Blatt, until Hornacek won the job with his interview, with the intellect, creativity and flexibility Jackson sought.



Jackson would have been perfectly comfortable with Rambis, a triangle soul mate, though the backlash in New York would have been fierce. Rambis went 9-19 as the Knicks' interim coach this season, and carries the baggage of a rough two-year run in Minnesota years ago.

Jackson, ever the iconoclast, surely wouldn't have cared about the reactions—no more than he cared about the backlash after he tweeted vacation photos from Sioux City and Fort Robinson State Park earlier this month, in the midst of the coaching search. Nor has James Dolan, the Knicks' owner, ever concerned himself with fan desires (see Lin, Jeremy).

But team officials were "very cognizant" of the intense negativity directed at Rambis, sources said, and it would be foolish to discount it as a factor. (Rambis is likely to be retained in another capacity.)

By hiring Hornacek, the Knicks averted a fan revolt—and more important, entrusted their future, and budding star Kristaps Porzingis, to an unmistakably bright basketball mind.

As a rookie head coach two years ago, Hornacek guided the Suns to a 48-34 record—nearly doubling their win total and obliterating all expectations. He was runner-up for coach of the year, finishing just behind Popovich and ahead of Tom Thibodeau.

The Suns unraveled the last two seasons, amid a series of ill-considered trades and signings, and a flurry of injuries to key players, most notably star guard Eric Bledsoe. Hornacek, 14-35 at the time of his dismissal, paid the price. But he remained popular in Phoenix, and respected around the league.

No, Hornacek was not the most decorated coach available, nor the most popular, and certainly not the most obvious choice. The world expected Phil Jackson to follow the predictable path, to stay strictly attached to his own system, his own people.

But this much should now be clear: You can't put Phil Jackson in a box. Or even a triangle.

Link: Knicks' Decision to Hire Hornacek Just What Phil Wanted
 

JerseyFinest!

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Any Coach that can get the Knicks to play at a faster pace is a good one in my book

This is Phil make or break off-season, so we'll see how things pan out. But we had to go into Free-Agency with a coach.

Outside of Thibs is no other Canidate I can say would have definitely been a better hire.

Knicks biggest problem last season was pace and inconsistency on offense, that's Jeff specialty.
Once we get all the details on if he's going to go the D-Fish route and run the Triangle with some P&R and ball screens sprinkled in or run his own offense which we all pretty much doubt. I don't see him running strictly the traditional triangle it would take away from his strength as coach.

At the end of the day it's all about Roster and right now we have about 5 players we know for fact is going to be back unless something crazy goes down
 

Skooby

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5-on-5: What's next for Porzingis, Melo and Knicks with Hornacek in?


Former Suns coach Jeff Hornacek is reportedly headed to New York.

Now that they have a new coach, what should the Knicks do this offseason? Is it time to trade Carmelo Anthony and build around Kristaps Porzingis?

Our NBA Insiders go 5-on-5.








1. What's your take on the hiring of Jeff Hornacek?
Amin Elhassan, ESPN Insider: Interesting! The news broke during Billy Donovan's pregame presser, and the reaction from everyone was exactly the same: wide-eyed surprise. Hornacek's a fine coach, but there was definitely little expectation Phil Jackson would go "outside the family" for this hire.

Did Hornacek and his representatives sell the Knicks on a willingness to run a triangle-centric offense? Or did Jackson sell Hornacek on the flexibility of running something other than the triangle? We'll find out.


Micah Adams, ESPN Stats and Info: It's a head scratcher. On one hand, maybe it's a good sign if Phil Jackson decided he didn't need a "triangle guy."

On the other hand, you'd think the Knicks would be able to bring in someone with a more distinguished track record. While Hornacek wasn't to blame for the roster mismanagement in Phoenix, two-and-a-half seasons with no playoff appearances isn't exactly a resume to get Knicks fans excited.

Bradford Doolittle, ESPN Insider: I have no problem with Jeff Hornacek as a coach. In fact, in the right situation, I think he'd be a difference-maker. This? It reeks of dysfunction.

No matter how it's spun, everything we know about Phil Jackson is that he wants his teams to play a certain way, with certain types of players, overseen by guys with whom he has history. That's not Hornacek, so we can only assume this hire is a product of unseen pressures.

Royce Webb, ESPN Insider: It might come down to 3-point shooting, and particularly Hornacek encouraging Kristaps Porzingis to let it fly. Hornacek was a great shooter in his day, and the Phoenix teams he coached were above average in 3-point rate (how often a team shoots 3s).

Meanwhile, Phil Jackson's Knicks have been below average in 3-point rate, and only 27 percent of Porzingis' shots were 3s in his rookie season. He needs to improve his accuracy, yes, but his efficiency will go up if he gets behind the line.

Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider: I'm pleasantly surprised. I expected the Knicks to hire Kurt Rambis, whose track record as a head coach is not good. Hornacek represents an encouraging willingness to look outside the Jackson tree for coaching talent.









2. What else do you foresee and advise for the Knicks this offseason?


Elhassan: Nobody's signing in New York for anything less than above-market value, so you can strike names like Kevin Durant, Al Horford and Mike Conley off the list. Trying to quick fix this team isn't going to work -- they now have a lucrative centerpiece to build around in Kristaps Porzingis, so the smart play is to find young vets who fit his developmental timeline.

Adams: Don't do anything out of desperation. The future is Porzingis and they should be doing everything they can to put pieces around him that fit. Obviously, every team wants Durant, including the Knicks. But short of that, they should target Conley or Ish Smith or Matthew Dellavedova, who is a restricted free agent. I'd explore the market for Carmelo Anthony, too.

Doolittle: They'll take a run at the big free agents. From a ready-to-win standpoint, they are far from the best option for the likes of Durant, Horford and Conley. When that fails, they'll throw money at second-tier guys because they're the Knicks and they've operated that way for 40 years. My advice would be a bona fide rebuild around Porzingis.

Webb: The Knicks have New York City and cap space, but what else with which to lure a star free agent? They need to take the Portland route of getting pre-peak players at discount rates rather than "established" role players. Will they be that patient? Doubt it. But they might have to settle for that route, like it or not.

Pelton: Something broadly similar to last summer: After striking out on the top free agents, the Knicks give short-term deals to second-tier free agents who don't move the needle. I'd advise trying to look for young free agents who match Porzingis' timeline, not Carmelo Anthony's.




3. Is it time for the Knicks and Carmelo Anthony to part ways?
Elhassan: Melo's no-trade clause notwithstanding, it's time to aggressively shop him. If they can get a first-round pick for him, great. But waiting until after the first week of free agency might yield some desperate suitors who have struck out in the market and want something to show for their cap space.

Adams: Yes. Hanging on to Anthony and spending cap space on veterans only ensures that the Knicks won't be bad enough to add other high-level pieces through the draft. He's still good enough that teams close to contention might consider giving up a young piece to land him.

And there are several desirable destinations for which Anthony might consider waiving his no-trade clause. Would Miami give up Justise Winslow? How about calling OKC about Serge Ibaka? Or Boston with any combination of their young guards or picks?

Doolittle: It has been time for that for quite awhile. The disconnect between what Anthony needs from the rest of his career and what the Knicks can give him is a big as ever. If the Knicks' offseason plays out as I suspect, this might finally be the summer when Anthony forces his way out. To the Rockets. Clippers. Heat. Anywhere.

Webb: Yes. We've seen what Melo has to offer the Knicks. Meanwhile he turns 32 this month and needs to slide into a supporting role for a contending team. He wanted to create a legacy in New York, but the real opportunity is elsewhere, as a professional scorer and big-brother type for a team that can go deeper into the postseason.

Pelton: From their standpoint, yes. But despite his financial incentive to approve a trade and the resulting trade bonus, Anthony seems relatively happy in the Big Apple. As long as that is the case, Anthony's no-trade clause means he isn't going anywhere.





4. Which is most accurate about team president Phil Jackson?
A. He's part of the solution in New York.
B. He's part of the problem in New York.
C. He won't be there long enough to be either one.



Elhassan: C. Whispers turn into screams, and screams to hollers, that Phil's got one foot out of the door in New York. At this point, I'd be stunned if he's around to see the 2017-18 season in Madison Square Garden. However, what he decides to do over the next 12 months could have a massive impact on the future of the franchise.

Adams: B. When Jackson came to New York, I think many just assumed that his name married to the Knicks brand would sell itself. Everyone would want to play for Jackson, the Knicks would roll out a star-studded lineup and all would be rosy in the Garden. Except it hasn't happened. Rather, it mostly has been one odd thing after another.

Doolittle: The evidence at hand suggests C. Whether he should have been hired with no front-office experience is something we can debate forever. But he was hired, with decades of evidence showing how he likes to do things there for all to see. You have to let Jackson chase his vision, or he'll be gone.

Webb: A. Jackson probably can't or won't do much to solve the systemic, fundamental issues that predated him and will outlast him. Still, if he provides a more stable front office, moves Melo and can count Hornacek and Porzingis on the positive side of the ledger before he leaves town, that makes him part of the solution, potentially.

Pelton: C, since it's still too early to say on answers A and B, and the Lakers rumors won't die. But Jackson has made some positive moves.





5. If the Knicks were a stock and you were looking five years ahead, would you buy, sell or hold?


Elhassan: Call me a pessimist, but I'm eternally holding so long as the franchise remains under the control of Jim Dolan. I am steadfast in my belief that ownership is the biggest determinant of success/failure in the NBA, and even if the Knicks could manage a one- or two-year spurt of positivity, eventually Dolan's meddling would send the franchise back to the abyss it has occupied for much of his tenure as principal owner.

Adams: Sell. While the Knicks already have one cornerstone in Porzingis and the market to attract another one, there's just almost no evidence that points toward them putting it together. Over the past decade, their high-end acquisitions have not panned out. And outside of Porzingis, they have almost nothing left from the draft that's noteworthy, either.

Doolittle: Sell. Anthony and Jackson might not be around much longer, but Dolan will, and faulty ownership is never a good long-term bet. Look, maybe Jackson wanted Hornacek and expects him to install the triangle. Maybe he was coerced into the hire and will let Hornacek do things his way. No matter what, I expect someone isn't going to be satisfied.

Webb: Hold. The Knicks have won 49 games total in two seasons, and presumably it won't get much worse than that. It's impossible to recommend a "buy" for a team that has shown so little ingenuity in the Dolan years, but mediocrity is within their sights.

Pelton: Hold. At some point, Porzingis could anchor a good team and the Knicks seem to have stopped digging a hole in terms of trading draft picks. But there's still little supporting young talent.
 

Typical Knicks Fan

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Do you think we should go after Jeremy Lin? He patterns his game after Dragic who had a good run in Phoenix with Hornacek as coach. We can even go after players who were off the list because they weren't triangle players, like Rondo, who would improve our defense right away.
 
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Do you think we should go after Jeremy Lin? He patterns his game after Dragic who had a good run in Phoenix with Hornacek as coach. We can even go after players who were off the list because they weren't triangle players, like Rondo, who would improve our defense right away.
Lin would be a good fit, since he can play sg too, but outside of him I'd rather not go after any pg and give Grant a chance to shine. His shot looked good towards the end of this season, and as long as he keeps improving his jumper he's bound to take a big step forward. I think the focus should be on finding younger wings who have some upside to them and can stretch the floor.

My ideal target list
1: Nicolas Batum
2.Evan Fournier
3. Allen Crabbe
4. Kent Bazemore
5. Bradley Beal ( not for a max though, but that's probably what it would take to get him )

I'd be iffy on a Derozan signing, but after these guys I can't think of any other guys I'd want on the team. There's already enough front court players on the team, so I don't see a need to go after any unless Phil plans on getting creative and flipping one of them first.
 

Derek Lee

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Lin would be a good fit, since he can play sg too, but outside of him I'd rather not go after any pg and give Grant a chance to shine. His shot looked good towards the end of this season, and as long as he keeps improving his jumper he's bound to take a big step forward. I think the focus should be on finding younger wings who have some upside to them and can stretch the floor.

My ideal target list
1: Nicolas Batum
2.Evan Fournier
3. Allen Crabbe
4. Kent Bazemore
5. Bradley Beal ( not for a max though, but that's probably what it would take to get him )

I'd be iffy on a Derozan signing, but after these guys I can't think of any other guys I'd want on the team. There's already enough front court players on the team, so I don't see a need to go after any unless Phil plans on getting creative and flipping one of them first.

Tyler Johnson, Solomon Hill and Matthew Dellavedova should be looked at too.
 
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