Th3G3ntleman
Superstar
Yall ready for the Jimmer stimulus package? It's gonna be on some linsanity shyt all over again.
Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread
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Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
That Amare signing was a bad move; no one else was gonna give him a max,so Amare really didn't have much leverage when it came to negotiations,and his contract handicapped the franchise until he was gone. Walsh was given an out with the amnesty clause, and uses it on Billups even though everyone knew Amare's knees were a ticking time bomb. A lot of vets where either traded for, or overpaid and signed between Walsh and Grunwald(some taking more assets to trade away), and lets not talk about the Bargnani trade, which is the second worst trade in recent nba history. Both basically sold the farm for short term mediocrity( with one good year sprinkled in), leaving the franchise crippled in terms of flexibility, and barren in terms of picks and young talent.
Everything was gonna fall apart eventually with either one of those two at the helm, and with Dolan still being hands on, and they'd have probably have the team in way worse shape than Phil does right now; picks would've been traded left and right, the team would've have Lowry but no Kristaps (Thank Phil for that
), more overpaid bums would be here, and the team would still be a 30-40 win team, with old talent in a league that has the most young talent it's ever seen. The Knicks would be Brooklyn basically.I'm glad Phil is straddling the line between rebuilding and being competitive; it might not mean playoffs for a year or two, but if it means success long term and less fringe playoff teams, I'm all for it. Even if Phil hasn't made the best of his moves yet, they where at least sound logically ( trading away a depreciating asset in Tyson was a sound move in theory for example ), and he still hasn't had any of the incredible misses his predecessors had, with one home run coming the form of KP.
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seemorecizzy
Superstar
There's no argument to be made that Phil had better job then the previous 2 guys in charge. We overpaid for amare but it started off the movement of players actually wanting to come here again. He brought the knicks back and made that relevant and attractive again. His injuries cAught up to him but he was a star, not Robin LopezThat Amare signing was a bad move; no one else was gonna give him a max,so Amare really didn't have much leverage when it came to negotiations,and his contract handicapped the franchise until he was gone. Walsh was given an out with the amnesty clause, and uses it on Billups even though everyone knew Amare's knees were a ticking time bomb. A lot of vets where either traded for, or overpaid and signed between Walsh and Grunwald(some taking more assets to trade away), and lets not talk about the Bargnani trade, which is the second worst trade in recent nba history. Both basically sold the farm for short term mediocrity( with one good year sprinkled in), leaving the franchise crippled in terms of flexibility, and barren in terms of picks and young talent.
Everything was gonna fall apart eventually with either one of those two at the helm, and with Dolan still being hands on, and they'd have probably have the team in way worse shape than Phil does right now; picks would've been traded left and right, the team would've have Lowry but no Kristaps (Thank Phil for that
I'm glad Phil is straddling the line between rebuilding and being competitive; it might not mean playoffs for a year or two, but if it means success long term and less fringe playoff teams, I'm all for it. Even if Phil hasn't made the best of his moves yet, they where at least sound logically ( trading away a depreciating asset in Tyson was a sound move in theory for example ), and he still hasn't had any of the incredible misses his predecessors had, with one home run coming the form of KP.
The amnesty situation was botched but It still got us one of the best centers in the league and again, another Allstar.
You sound like your satisfied with medicority , I ain't. Get some players here, do your job. And Dolan turned down the Lowry deal, not PHIL. See, it's not hard to turn down shytty offers lol
You need to shut the fukk up already and stop fukkin complaining
Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
Phil advised Dolan to turn down that Lowry deal. The team has been mediocre up until now, outside of one season that could be chalked up as an anomaly, in large part because all the previous gm's followed the same strategy. I don't want a mediocre team, but sometimes you gotta take a step back before forward, or at least not make a desperate leap towards relevancy and crash and burn when you fall.
And to be frank, for all the stars that Amare attracted, the team ended up being barely more successful that it was the previous 10 years, while trending downwards in a extreme way when these stars exited their primes. It's all hypothetical right now, but if Amare doesn't sign and the team doesn't throw away all of it's assets (or spent them more wisely), you could argue the team would be in better shape right now, and going forward. Stars and names don't matter much if you don't have depth or flexibility to tinker with your roster. I'd say it's a miracle right now that Knicks future outlook looks even somewhat hopeful considering the Knicks didn't have a pick in '14 or have one this year( a result of chasing names), or any assets on the squad before Phil got here.
Phil could be a bust,but it's too early to grade him on the roster considering the shyt hand he got dealt. It's really only been a year and a half, wait to see what he does this offseason at least.
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seemorecizzy
Superstar
Just telling the truthYou need to shut the fukk up already and stop fukkin complaining
Nets lost really pissed me off
Some of yall need to stop pretending like phils doing anything special
Cause he isn't
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
Just telling the truth
Nets lost really pissed me off
Some of yall need to stop pretending like phils doing anything special
Cause he isn't
Honestly I am hoping he does trade Melo for picks and go young. If ever a GM could come to NY and do what needs to be done to make the franchise not a joke it's him. Dolan would of forced that Beverly trade on any other GM.
storyteller
Veteran
Yeah that's the caveat, but I wouldn't say "continues to decline" when he's averaging the second most RPG and most APG of his career as well as playing the best defense he's ever played. His game is shifting but if he can stay healthy and play games like he did last night (or like he did before the ref injury) then his value will be high enough to draw out something better than that C's offer at minimum (on the assumption that the BK pick wasn't involved).
These losses have some of you talking real crazy......anyways, let's try & get this win tonight
storyteller
Veteran
Not gonna break down individuals, we're still transitioning to the new coach. Just wanna punch down some of my observations and even after a crappy win, I gotta say there some...
. Melo's legs are improving but his lift isn't all there yet. Lateral movement was there, he was willing to drive, his jumper wasn't showing ill effects or falling short. His stat line was similar to things he was doing before the injury (which I gotta repeat, was off a freak accident not typical NBA wear and tear). There wasn't a fifth gear though, when the Knicks needed points at times, he didn't really take over like he typically can. I'm not sure if that was fatigue in the second half or if he really wants to stick to the system no matter what or if he didn't want to press his luck...but this was the most promising sign of the night (because even if it doesn't translate to the improbable playoff run, it means more value in trade offers this offseason or a better sell to potential FAs).
. They're making decisions faster and cutting harder. Now this actually translated into a negative because there were a myriad of TO's the happened because guys were making decisions BEFORE they had the ball in hand. A lot of TO's in that second quarter especially, came as the system was being run well but a player decided to dribble at his man instead of continuing the ball movement. They were choosing to attack before the advantage was fully realized and it meant getting stripped. That said, had they been doing this from day one, they'd probably have far better instincts by now. If you get a chance, watch the second unit's off ball movement during a Knicks in 60 or something...they were actually sprinting through screens at times.
. Kurt Rambis still does a terrible job coaching defense. I mean...it's only two games, so we can cross our fingers but he had the same issue last time he coached. Our defensive awareness and communication was garbage, Bogdanavic was looking like Tony Kukoc out there. Saving RoLo for the Blopez match-up for most of the game is kinda dumb when Blopez averages 55% from the field against the guy for his career (and over 20 ppg). I also thought Rambis rested Melo too long when they were close in the fourth which is a pretty bad one.
. KP really needed that break...he just moved better and wasn't laboring as much. This is another promising sign. The rookie wall was looming, but hopefully the break was enough to keep him fresh for the last 26. His overall offensive awareness has looked stronger in recent games as well. He's not receiving the ball locked into one decision which means some really smart ball movement from him. He had some resets out of the post, a cross court pass to AA for a wide open look and just a handful of other passes that weren't spectacular but showed that he's surveying the floor.
. Jerian Grant was good. Sasha wasn't out there. Both nice developments. Grant made some rookie mistakes, but he also looked more confident there than he has for a long time. Defensively, he's light years ahead of Calderon which translates to an average defender but still, it's a difference maker.
. Lance Thomas was AWFUL. D-Will got caught ball watching a few times which is a habit he had improved on for a while there. Seraphin was really bad as well. The bench needs at least one forward to show up and play well. KOQ didn't play big minutes, but looked pretty solid in his time out there.
. Three guard sets are really good for this team. It's been that way since Kidd was a 2 guard for us. Last night the Grant, Galloway, Afflalo trio really worked in terms of ball movement.
. Scoring slumps are still an issue. Especially frustrating because I thought they were getting pretty solid looks in the fourth quarter slump that ended the game. Here's hoping Jimmer is the answer to this...smh.
. Melo's legs are improving but his lift isn't all there yet. Lateral movement was there, he was willing to drive, his jumper wasn't showing ill effects or falling short. His stat line was similar to things he was doing before the injury (which I gotta repeat, was off a freak accident not typical NBA wear and tear). There wasn't a fifth gear though, when the Knicks needed points at times, he didn't really take over like he typically can. I'm not sure if that was fatigue in the second half or if he really wants to stick to the system no matter what or if he didn't want to press his luck...but this was the most promising sign of the night (because even if it doesn't translate to the improbable playoff run, it means more value in trade offers this offseason or a better sell to potential FAs).
. They're making decisions faster and cutting harder. Now this actually translated into a negative because there were a myriad of TO's the happened because guys were making decisions BEFORE they had the ball in hand. A lot of TO's in that second quarter especially, came as the system was being run well but a player decided to dribble at his man instead of continuing the ball movement. They were choosing to attack before the advantage was fully realized and it meant getting stripped. That said, had they been doing this from day one, they'd probably have far better instincts by now. If you get a chance, watch the second unit's off ball movement during a Knicks in 60 or something...they were actually sprinting through screens at times.
. Kurt Rambis still does a terrible job coaching defense. I mean...it's only two games, so we can cross our fingers but he had the same issue last time he coached. Our defensive awareness and communication was garbage, Bogdanavic was looking like Tony Kukoc out there. Saving RoLo for the Blopez match-up for most of the game is kinda dumb when Blopez averages 55% from the field against the guy for his career (and over 20 ppg). I also thought Rambis rested Melo too long when they were close in the fourth which is a pretty bad one.
. KP really needed that break...he just moved better and wasn't laboring as much. This is another promising sign. The rookie wall was looming, but hopefully the break was enough to keep him fresh for the last 26. His overall offensive awareness has looked stronger in recent games as well. He's not receiving the ball locked into one decision which means some really smart ball movement from him. He had some resets out of the post, a cross court pass to AA for a wide open look and just a handful of other passes that weren't spectacular but showed that he's surveying the floor.
. Jerian Grant was good. Sasha wasn't out there. Both nice developments. Grant made some rookie mistakes, but he also looked more confident there than he has for a long time. Defensively, he's light years ahead of Calderon which translates to an average defender but still, it's a difference maker.
. Lance Thomas was AWFUL. D-Will got caught ball watching a few times which is a habit he had improved on for a while there. Seraphin was really bad as well. The bench needs at least one forward to show up and play well. KOQ didn't play big minutes, but looked pretty solid in his time out there.
. Three guard sets are really good for this team. It's been that way since Kidd was a 2 guard for us. Last night the Grant, Galloway, Afflalo trio really worked in terms of ball movement.
. Scoring slumps are still an issue. Especially frustrating because I thought they were getting pretty solid looks in the fourth quarter slump that ended the game. Here's hoping Jimmer is the answer to this...smh.
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
Tommy Dee (who may or may not know nothing) said teams were mostly interested in trying to trade for Melo. His contract is like the twitter posted here great for the amount of money he is getting paid. Especially in an era where guys like Batum and Conley who while nice are being talked about as $20 mil+ contracts at the start.'
I think if its going to happen it'll be this summer, and I actually think the knicks could get a lot for him (picks + younger players), once teams realize what they are going to have to pay starting 25-30 mil for guys of Melo's caliber from now on.
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, I know
Shooting the lowest percentage since his rookie year and struggles finishing at the rim now, this year is the lowest he's ever shot at the rim, that is a clear sign of decline. His game is shifting because he can't beat the elite defenders anymore, his value was the highest this year, there's a lot of time between now and the trade deadline next year.
storyteller
Veteran
Coming back from knee surgery, players always see an efficiency dip short term. Allowing for a 20 game recovery and not controlling at all for the latter injury (which was under anything but normal circumstances); you have a 30 game sample shooting .437% from the field averaging 8.3 rpg and 4.9 apg. The trend would be upward if you assume his health has improved over the break (something he himself has acknowledged). I'd say 44% from the field, improved defensive play, career high in assists per game and just below a career high in rebounds per game over that long stretch of games (accounts for more than half this season) is a compelling case against the rapid decline implications.
Also, we're back to my original point, with the cap increasing and one less year commitment; it can be argued that his value will increase organically assuming his play remains at the averages established so far. It's already been reported that multiple teams made late runs at him; no reason to think that would just vanish if he keeps up the same production or god forbid improves with his health.