Physicalists get in there...

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you know reality exists independent of our vision¿*

I wasn't saying it doesn't :dahell:

I'm simply saying the physical appearance of reality or at least the way it appears to humans (and other living beings for that matter) is based on how our 5 senses perceive it.

I'm not saying we create the Sun but there is no big yellow ball in the sky without a physical apparatus to perceive color/form.
 

010101

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I wasn't saying it doesn't :dahell:

I'm simply saying the physical appearance of reality or at least the way it appears to humans (and other living beings for that matter) is based on how our 5 senses perceive it.

I'm not saying we create the Sun but there is no big yellow ball in the sky without a physical apparatus to perceive color/form.

The physical realm only appears physical because of our observation of it
*
 

MischievousMonkey

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you for sure can get lit on fire bro ha*
Lol yeah but I don't mean how my body reacts to fire. I mean the rules that dictate how fire reacts, how electricity works... Are those informations imbued with everything material?

Cuz you said that rules are part of the matter, so are you saying that every rules is present everywhere in everything? Or that rules reside only in the objects they concern?
 
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010101

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Lol yeah but I don't mean how my body reacts to fire. I mean the rules that dictate how fire reacts, how electricity works... Are those informations imbued with everything material?

Cuz you said that rules are part of the matter, so are you saying that every rules is present everywhere in everything? Or that rules reside only to the objects they concern?
materials in different combinations in different states behave in different manners.........dawg is you smoking¿ ha*
 

King Khufu

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Here's a picture I made about this subject. Mind you it's very crappy. But, it works!
erheherh.png
 

010101

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:dwillhuh:

All u just did was quote a TLDR version first then the shorter version next

In both quotes my emphasis was on the appearance of physical reality

Funny because something told me not to even acknowledge this alert now I see why
ok

we aren't talking about appearances though

talking about existence actually relying on the perception of humankind to exist like all this wasn't here before mankind & won't be here after as well ha
 

MischievousMonkey

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Bump :mjgrin:

To allay some of the confusion posted thus far in this thread, I'd advise anyone really interested in the subject to read this book......

quantum_enigma_cover_e2.png
So I finally got around to start this book. I'm halfway through and it's fire :wow::damn: raises so many questions and indeed, it touches on several things we talked about. I'd thought I update our conversation with some info.


Reading this reply.... I understand what ur talkin about more.. and me bringing up Theory fits right in...
Real science... the type to really try to figure out what's going on... extensive, honest testing and experimentation... looking for actual results, not just trying to confirm what they already want to believe...
Should get to a point where they push our knowledge of theory (rules)...
Then we can see the beyond physical nature life (the code)...

And start to better understand the programmer (God/creator)
Again, This wont happen or already has happened but that knowledge will be kept from us
The bolded is actually what's happening with quantum physics breh :ohhh: there is an implication that our consciousness actually affects the physicality of matter :ohhh: whether matter and light is in form of waves or in form or particles... It depends on the experiment conducted... Which would imply that an observer can affect how the physical world is set up by a non-physical process...

I fully agree with that breh. These rules are just not physical elements. You can discover new ones by playing and experimenting with physical things but that's pretty much it. The rules were there before us (us=the physical realm) or appeared at the same time
It seems possible that all rules weren't necessarily there before us because observation affects physics, just like a rule... :patrice: Gotta think deeper about that :jbhmm:

"energy" doesn't have forms; As transference from one length/volume at density + pressure to another that transforms itself in combined elements to shift the energy particles.

A real world example is like this!
student-pwr.gif
Energy actually has many potential forms, from electric, to nuclear, to thermal...

the rules are present within the material.........rules don't exist in nothingness & act upon matter at random

the physical realm was here before our observation of it

*
This is the most interesting about quantum physics... Basically, we can have two boxes and an atom... Project the atom in one or the other box or both at the same time... And depending on what experiment you decide to do... The atom will be in one of the two boxes or in two boxes at the same time :mindblown:

Lemme be clearer: it's like I got one spaghetti and two plates covered with foil. I put the spaghetti where I want and you have to find in which plate is the spaghetti. If you take the foil off of one plate, then automatically, the spaghetti will be in one of the two plates. But if you decide to feel through the foil with your fingers... It will be in both plates at the same time! :mindblown: Which implies your testing method of finding the spaghetti impacted how it would be :wtf: even if it was supposed to be set in the past :huhldup:

you know reality exists independent of our vision¿*
ok

we aren't talking about appearances though

talking about existence actually relying on the perception of humankind to exist like all this wasn't here before mankind & won't be here after as well ha
Not with quantum physics apparently :gucci:
 

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MischievousMonkey said:
Not with quantum physics apparently :gucci:

THAT is the reason Einstein didn't fukk with it. Called it 'spooky'. He was right. Shyt is counterintuitive since we base all our observations upon what is physical, but that is not the sum-total of 'reality'.
To put it plainly: Nothing exists without an observer......which is ...........:mindblown:

Science can only explain the physical as that is objectively observable. QM steps into the realm of consciousness which has yet to be quantified by science and is subjective by nature and raises a question: If NOTHING exists without an 'observer', then who/what is 'observing' the Universe/Multiverse?​
 

Berry

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Bump :mjgrin:


So I finally got around to start this book. I'm halfway through and it's fire :wow::damn: raises so many questions and indeed, it touches on several things we talked about. I'd thought I update our conversation with some info.



The bolded is actually what's happening with quantum physics breh :ohhh: there is an implication that our consciousness actually affects the physicality of matter :ohhh: whether matter and light is in form of waves or in form or particles... It depends on the experiment conducted... Which would imply that an observer can affect how the physical world is set up by a non-physical process...


It seems possible that all rules weren't necessarily there before us because observation affects physics, just like a rule... :patrice: Gotta think deeper about that :jbhmm:


Energy actually has many potential forms, from electric, to nuclear, to thermal...


This is the most interesting about quantum physics... Basically, we can have two boxes and an atom... Project the atom in one or the other box or both at the same time... And depending on what experiment you decide to do... The atom will be in one of the two boxes or in two boxes at the same time :mindblown:

Lemme be clearer: it's like I got one spaghetti and two plates covered with foil. I put the spaghetti where I want and you have to find in which plate is the spaghetti. If you take the foil off of one plate, then automatically, the spaghetti will be in one of the two plates. But if you decide to feel through the foil with your fingers... It will be in both plates at the same time! :mindblown: Which implies your testing method of finding the spaghetti impacted how it would be :wtf: even if it was supposed to be set in the past :huhldup:

So is this book and theory expounding on the whole schrodinger’s cat Situation? Like how up until the box is open the cat is both alive and dead, but only one is apparent once the top is lifted? :ohhh:
 

010101

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Bump :mjgrin:


So I finally got around to start this book. I'm halfway through and it's fire :wow::damn: raises so many questions and indeed, it touches on several things we talked about. I'd thought I update our conversation with some info.



The bolded is actually what's happening with quantum physics breh :ohhh: there is an implication that our consciousness actually affects the physicality of matter :ohhh: whether matter and light is in form of waves or in form or particles... It depends on the experiment conducted... Which would imply that an observer can affect how the physical world is set up by a non-physical process...


It seems possible that all rules weren't necessarily there before us because observation affects physics, just like a rule... :patrice: Gotta think deeper about that :jbhmm:


Energy actually has many potential forms, from electric, to nuclear, to thermal...


This is the most interesting about quantum physics... Basically, we can have two boxes and an atom... Project the atom in one or the other box or both at the same time... And depending on what experiment you decide to do... The atom will be in one of the two boxes or in two boxes at the same time :mindblown:

Lemme be clearer: it's like I got one spaghetti and two plates covered with foil. I put the spaghetti where I want and you have to find in which plate is the spaghetti. If you take the foil off of one plate, then automatically, the spaghetti will be in one of the two plates. But if you decide to feel through the foil with your fingers... It will be in both plates at the same time! :mindblown: Which implies your testing method of finding the spaghetti impacted how it would be :wtf: even if it was supposed to be set in the past :huhldup:



Not with quantum physics apparently :gucci:
things on a quantum scale are a matter separate from the level human life takes place on

trying to draw a line from how infinitesimally small particles behave to how life as we know it is doesn't work

on the quantum scale folks are largely still in the dark so you ar filling in the gaps & making conclusions like sci-fi

*
 

MischievousMonkey

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THAT is the reason Einstein didn't fukk with it. Called it 'spooky'. He was right. Shyt is counterintuitive since we base all our observations upon what is physical, but that is not the sum-total of 'reality'.
To put it plainly: Nothing exists without an observer......which is ...........:mindblown:

Science can only explain the physical as that is objectively observable. QM steps into the realm of consciousness which has yet to be quantified by science and is subjective by nature and raises a question: If NOTHING exists without an 'observer', then who/what is 'observing' the Universe/Multiverse?​
What struck me so far in the book is how Einstein was pivotal in almost all advancements made on the subject. Every time they talked about a contributor they mentioned Einstein and how he was one of the first to peep the implications of what they advanced. The implications are actually spooky :lupe:

I didn't finish the book yet, I'm halfway through, so where I'm at the quantum mystery is only talked about how in the sense of consciousness affecting how physical matter will appear though, not creating it :jbhmm: I would say stuff still pre-exist as a potential but its properties are not strictly defined yet... The observer, through his observation, is setting up these properties :what:

I was for real mind blown reading it. I know it's a mystery, not a rule and that the implications are hypothesis but still :whoo:


So is this book and theory expounding on the whole schrodinger’s cat Situation? Like how up until the box is open the cat is both alive and dead, but only one is apparent once the top is lifted? :ohhh:
Oh yeah, this is one of the first things they talk about. Got me like :childplease: at first then :ohhh:
things on a quantum scale are a matter separate from the level human life takes place on

trying to draw a line from how infinitesimally small particles behave to how life as we know it is doesn't work

on the quantum scale folks are largely still in the dark so you ar filling in the gaps & making conclusions like sci-fi

*
Actually applying quantum theory to bigger stuff seems to work and only be a matter of means. They say in the book that they are experimenting with always bigger objects and it never fails. Plus the fact that from quantum theory you can deduce all Newtonian theory which undoubtedly works with large to extremely massive stellar objects.

I agree with your last paragraph though: the quantum mystery is about implications that troubles us but we're not sure if they are true or not or if there is an explanation out there that would fit our pre-quantum vision. But whatever that explanation is it would change the way we see the world and consciousness.
 
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