Paul Ryan: Rape "another form of conception"

[valet]

Until it's out the vagina, its not a self-sufficient organism to me

"potentially" means it will become an independent life upon delivery. That is not the root of the debate, this threads debate is whether its ethical to force women to keep rape babies.

Yes, but underneath that where the debates begins. if it's not alive then it's really no debate of whether rape babies should be aborted. It's not a live so what does it matter. You can't kill what's not alive.

 

[valet]

I don't think you're ok with the initial act of rape, but I think you are ok with extending that act of rape in the form of unwanted pregnancy once it has already happened, in the name of the zygote/embryo/fetus. And I do find that disagreeable, of course, but that's what these debates are always about.

And why did you put "rights" in quotation marks with respect to the woman but not to the zygote? The same rights that were violated in rape are the ones violated by the unwanted pregnency that follows it, and you already agreed that those rights are valid in the first place.

I put it in " " because I don't believe that abortion should be a right of women. I believe it's the reality of the vicious act that has happen. That she became preggo as the result of this as act. Yes, that's the reality. As well as emotional pain, psychological pain. All of these are the results of the rape.

 

[The Real]

I put it in " " because I don't believe that abortion should be a right of women. I believe it's the reality of the vicious act that has happen. That she became preggo as the result of this as act. Yes, that's the reality. As well as emotional pain, psychological pain. All of these are the results of the rape.

The right to abort wasn't the right I was talking about, though. How can the right to abort be violated by the act of rape? That argument wouldn't make sense.

The rights I am talking about are the ones violated by rape, some of which we already agreed on at the outset. Those rights continue to be violated when the woman has an unwanted pregnancy as the result of rape. Those are the rights violations you are ok with extending in the name of the zygote/embryo/fetus.

 

[valet]

The right to abort wasn't the right I was talking about, though. How can the right to abort be violated by the act of rape? That argument wouldn't make sense.

The rights I am talking about are the ones violated by rape, some of which we already agreed on at the outset. Those rights continue to be violated when the woman has an unwanted pregnancy as the result of rape. Those are the rights violations you are ok with extending in the name of the zygote/embryo/fetus.

Yes, those are the consequences of the rape.

 

[The Real]

Yes, those are the consequences of the rape.

Yes. That's why I said the other side of the coin of being pro-zygote/embryo/fetus is unintentionally pro-rapist. But whether or not that price is worth paying is where we disagree, and where the debate will probably never be settled.

 

[DANKTHRONE]

I can definitely see the parallels in this and the pro life position. But where it fails is that the child isn't a parasite leeching off the mom. It belongs there. It's in it's natural place. 2ndly, this isn't totally what's going on with abortion. A more fair analogy would be this woman slicing up this dude Black Mamba style, killing em. 3rd, with abortion this isn't a stranger she responsible for. That's the CHILD'S MAMA. And the mama has the responsiblity to take care of her child. So that's my thoughts on that.

I don't see how "it belongs there." It was placed there forcibly without consent of the mother. It is a parasite because it depends on the biological equipment of the mother to survive. However, it doesn't have a just claim to use of this equipment. Someone else hooked it up without asking permission. Why should it have the right to claim priority to the equipment over the mother? Imagine if someone kidnapped you and performed a procedure that attached another human to you for a nine month span. Why shouldn't you have the right to decide what to do with YOUR biological equipment? You are going to have to explain why it matters that the rape scenario depends on biological processes and the science fiction scenario depends on technology. Either way, someone else is using YOUR body in a way that you NEVER asked for. Shouldn't everyone at least have the final say over what happens to THEIR body?

 

[Fillerguy]

I don't see how "it belongs there." It was placed there forcibly without consent of the mother. It is a parasite because it depends on the biological equipment of the mother to survive. However, it doesn't have a just claim to use of this equipment. Someone else hooked it up without asking permission. Why should it have the right to claim priority to the equipment over the mother? Imagine if someone kidnapped you and performed a procedure that attached another human to you for a nine month span. Why shouldn't you have the right to decide what to do with YOUR biological equipment? You are going to have to explain why it matters that the rape scenario depends on biological processes and the science fiction scenario depends on technology. Either way, someone else is using YOUR body in a way that you NEVER asked for. Shouldn't everyone at least have the final say over what happens to THEIR body?

Why stop there? One could make an argument that a fetus is apart of a woman's body as long as its dependent upon her to survive.

 

[DANKTHRONE]

I agree with that point fillerguy but I don't have the biological education to back that up. Either way, whether you consider it a parasite or as an extension of the mother's body, my last point stands.

 

[GoPro]

My belief is not based on who the person is. If so, then I don't truly believe it. I hold the same feeling for all children.

May your wife get raped and you be forced to raise that rapist baby. Every day you look into it's eyes, may you see your wife being violated and inseminated. If it's a son, may you forever worry about his possible predilection to rape.

It's very easy for you to sit up on your soapbox preaching retarded pro-life talking points, but when you're actually faced with the situation firsthand, I guarantee your position would shift.

 

[valet]

May your wife get raped and you be forced to raise that rapist baby. Every day you look into it's eyes, may you see your wife being violated and inseminated. If it's a son, may you forever worry about his possible predilection to rape.

It's very easy for you to sit up on your soapbox preaching retarded pro-life talking points, but when you're actually faced with the situation firsthand, I guarantee your position would shift.

And I guarantee it won't. You can't tell me how I will react unless you know me. My personality. And you can't. Because you don't know me.

 

[valet]

I don't see how "it belongs there." It was placed there forcibly without consent of the mother. It is a parasite because it depends on the biological equipment of the mother to survive. However, it doesn't have a just claim to use of this equipment. Someone else hooked it up without asking permission. Why should it have the right to claim priority to the equipment over the mother? Imagine if someone kidnapped you and performed a procedure that attached another human to you for a nine month span. Why shouldn't you have the right to decide what to do with YOUR biological equipment? You are going to have to explain why it matters that the rape scenario depends on biological processes and the science fiction scenario depends on technology. Either way, someone else is using YOUR body in a way that you NEVER asked for. Shouldn't everyone at least have the final say over what happens to THEIR body?

A parasite doesn't belong in the body at all. The child belongs in that body and comes from the mother. It's not an invader. As far as why shouldn't a woman have the right to do with her biological equipment. Because the duty of being a mom supercedes any claim to personal liberty. We recognize that outside of the womb (i.e. a mother can't neglect her child). And it should be the same in the womb. There are many laws that constrains us from doing what we want with our bodies. An abortion should be one of them.

 

[DANKTHRONE]

A parasite is an organism that depends on the biological equipment from another organism to survive. A child doesn't depend on that, whereas a fetus obviously does. Should we have laws that require mothers to donate organs to their sick children? What kind of world do you want to live in where the government can tell you what to do with your organs? And it IS an invader because IT WAS PUT THERE WITHOUT THE MOTHER ASKING. A PENIS INVADED HER VAGINA AND LEFT IT THERE. THE RESULTS OF RAPE DON'T BELONG THERE. You are fukking disgusting.

 

[DANKTHRONE]

What a misogynistic fukk. Seriously. Woops you got raped, now you don't have personal liberty anymore, because somehow this rape fetus has prior claim to your organs for no reason other than being a "mother" somehow mystically trumps personal liberty. The government gets to tell you what to do with your organs because you got raped. Holy shyt you are retarded valet.