Official Tour de France Thread [Crash Fuccery]

[Kunty McPhuck]

Pogacar drops huge watts and does best performance of his career on Pla d’Adet | Cycling Today

Tadej Pogacar was better than ever on stage 14 of the Tour de France and registered some unreal numbers while dropping Jonas Vingegaard on the steep Pla d'Adet gradients.

cycling.today

The Slovenian pushed 6.85 ᵉW/Kg for 27min50s, according to lanternerouge.com, which should be 7.16 ᵉW/Kg for sea level normalised. If the numbers prove to be real, this should be best performance of the century in cycling.

Despite losing 39 seconds to Pogacar, Jonas Vingegaard also recorded one of his best performances with 6.67 ᵉW/Kg for 28min29s.

On Pla d’Adet climb, Pogacar easily beat by around two minutes the times of Lance Armstrong, Tony Rominger, Miguel Indurain and Zenon Jaskula.


Yeah I'm supposed to believe Tadej is 2 full minutes faster than known dopers because of ketones?
And then was as fast or faster the very next day? 2 weeks into the tour?

These dudes dirty as ever.

I'm not familiar with Jaskula. But none of those other names are pure climbers. Big Mig and Rominger were TTer who could climb. Also places 3-13 on the stage finished 30-50 secs ahead of those names as well.

Regarding Ketones

'They're Not Some Magic Potion': Inside The Peloton's Ketone Problem

Several WorldTour teams openly use the 'grey area' performance enhancers, but many still fear their influence: What's driving the division?

velo.outsideonline.com

 

[Remote]

I'm not familiar with Jaskula. But none of those other names are pure climbers. Big Mig and Rominger were TTer who could climb. Also places 3-13 on the stage finished 30-50 secs ahead of those names as well.

Regarding Ketones

'They're Not Some Magic Potion': Inside The Peloton's Ketone Problem

Several WorldTour teams openly use the 'grey area' performance enhancers, but many still fear their influence: What's driving the division?

velo.outsideonline.com

So you are leaning on the side that the riders are clean.

I'm not.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

So you are leaning on the side that the riders are clean.

I'm not.

I never said that. Pointing out that Pogi and Jonas are climbers so their numbers should better than guys who were TTers first and climbers seconds. Also Pogi and Jonas are physical freaks with their physiology just like Big Mig was with his lung capacity.

Also Ketones have been discussed about being good/bad for cycling since the late 10's when they were first being reported on being used within the peloton. First by Skineos and Visma.

I think you and I have had this conversation before. I'm in the camp that elite/top level athletes are all on something. When it comes to cycling what's the point of asking if someone might be 'dirty' when the sport has been dirty from the very beginning. Whatever faith i had in cycling being clean died in the 90's and 00's. I watch cycling for the competition.

Are riders dirty sure but there have also been technology advancements to equipment and training over the last 10 year or so that also helps the cyclists go quicker. Or as its otherwise known as marginal gains. Just like in Track and Field with the shoes and tracks. Exclude the doping Cycling was way behind the times compared to other sports im its use of technology. Cycling only just started having video and race/tactical analysts in the last few years.

 

[Remote]

I never said that. Pointing out that Pogi and Jonas are climbers so their numbers should better than guys who were TTers first and climbers seconds. Also Pogi and Jonas are physical freaks with their physiology just like Big Mig was with his lung capacity.

Also Ketones have been discussed about being good/bad for cycling since the late 10's when they were first being reported on being used within the peloton. First by Skineos and Visma.

I think you and I have had this conversation before. I'm in the camp that elite/top level athletes are all on something. When it comes to cycling what's the point of asking if someone might be 'dirty' when the sport has been dirty from the very beginning. Whatever faith i had in cycling being clean died in the 90's and 00's. I watch cycling for the competition.

Are riders dirty sure but there have also been technology advancements to equipment and training over the last 10 year or so that also helps the cyclists go quicker. Or as its otherwise known as marginal gains. Just like in Track and Field with the shoes and tracks. Exclude the doping Cycling was way behind the times compared to other sports im its use of technology. Cycling only just started having video and race/tactical analysts in the last few years.

The guys now are outperforming what the dopers did 15 years ago.

If anything, technology and training improvements would put today's cyclist closer to, or on par with the dopers of 2005 or 2010.

Those advancements alone would never account for them SURPASSING the dopers.

Maybe this is a case of "our roided up guy beat your roided up guy" but until doping is open and legal, I feel comfortable calling into question what I'm seeing.

Because context matters.

 

[Jean toomer]

Pogacar drops huge watts and does best performance of his career on Pla d’Adet | Cycling Today

Tadej Pogacar was better than ever on stage 14 of the Tour de France and registered some unreal numbers while dropping Jonas Vingegaard on the steep Pla d'Adet gradients.

cycling.today

The Slovenian pushed 6.85 ᵉW/Kg for 27min50s, according to lanternerouge.com, which should be 7.16 ᵉW/Kg for sea level normalised. If the numbers prove to be real, this should be best performance of the century in cycling.

Despite losing 39 seconds to Pogacar, Jonas Vingegaard also recorded one of his best performances with 6.67 ᵉW/Kg for 28min29s.

On Pla d’Adet climb, Pogacar easily beat by around two minutes the times of Lance Armstrong, Tony Rominger, Miguel Indurain and Zenon Jaskula.


Yeah I'm supposed to believe Tadej is 2 full minutes faster than known dopers because of ketones?
And then was as fast or faster the very next day? 2 weeks into the tour?

These dudes dirty as ever.

The technology is better…the announcers mentioned that Jorgensen hit 7.2 W/kg for like 30 min leading vinegars out on Saturdays climb. Those are alien numbers.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

The guys now are outperforming what the dopers did 15 years ago.

If anything, technology and training improvements would put today's cyclist closer to, or on par with the dopers of 2005 or 2010.

Those advancements alone would never account for them SURPASSING the dopers.

Maybe this is a case of "our roided up guy beat your roided up guy" but until doping is open and legal, I feel comfortable calling into question what I'm seeing.

Because context matters.

To your question

If pro cycling is now clean, why do records set by dopers keep on getting broken?.

Tech advancements from 9 years ago.

David Millar on changing technology in the pro peloton - and whether disc brakes have a place there

David Millar talks disc brakes and technological advances modernising cycling racing

road.cc

The Changes in Bikes over the past 30 years.

Why does the Tour de France keep getting faster? Sonny Colbrelli and Bahrain Victorious find out

Four bikes from across the eras go head-to-head with some curious results

www.cyclingnews.com

Are modern bikes really so much better? Comparing vintage vs new road bikes for ride quality, aero, weight, gearing + more

How much better is a road bike with an additional 24 years of technological progress behind it? We weigh up whether bikes are heading in the right direction, or if retro really does rule

road.cc

Speed of the Pro Peloton

Pro cycling by numbers: conclusions from the last decade

Stats and graphs from pro cycling 2010-2019

www.cyclingnews.com

The Evolution of the Average Speed of Professional Cyclists

Cycling has improved a lot over time. Consequently, speed also increased and it keeps increasing. Check out how the average speed evolve in the last 100 years.

4endurance.com

How Nutrition has changed. Which is also mentioned in the David Millar interview

How Has the Nutrition of the Peloton Changed – Chefs vs Nutritionists

The diet of a Tour de France competitor has changed a lot in the past 20 years. We talked to a performance chef, Hannah Grant, to find out how has the

www.welovecycling.com

Scientific and Technological advancements is helping the cyclists to go faster regardless if they are on the juice or not.

This is what marginal gains has become.

After being asked a gentle first question at his daily post-race press conference, Pogacar faced a more difficult query. “Tadej, yesterday Jonas [Vingegaard] was asked about the carbon monoxide rebreathing technique, are you familiar with this? Have you ever used it?”

“I heard this, I was thinking about car exhausts, I don’t know. I don’t know much about it. I have no comment on it. I don’t know what it is. I was always thinking it is what goes out of the exhaust of the car. Maybe I am just uneducated.”

Perhaps. Soon after, Pogacar’s UAE team, responding to a question from The Times, said the team does in fact use carbon monoxide rebreathing to measure haemoglobin mass and that this technique has been used in altitude training and research for more than 20 years. “It is a well established, safe, professional method that is backed by a very large amount of research,” the team said in a statement. “It is used widely by athletes, climbers and other persons who are exposed to altitude for professional sports or other physical activities.”

The team pointed out the carbon monoxide test is the only means of accurately measuring haemoglobin mass and this allows the team to assess how their athletes are responding to altitude training. The test is carried out by Dr Irina Zelenkova from the University of Zaragoza, an expert in this field. According to the team, the test is done on every rider at the beginning and end of each block of altitude training.

Using carbon monoxide to measure haemoglobin mass is not banned and is not considered doping. However, it is a poisonous gas and using it, even under the strictest medical control, on healthy young athletes is going to be considered controversial by some. The issue has arisen following the publication of an investigation into the use of carbon monoxide rebreathing and the potential abuse of carbon monoxide exhalation by a US-based cycling website Escape Collective.

According to the Escape piece, UAE Team Emirates, Visma-Lease a Bike and Israel-Premier Tech all do carbon monoxide rebreathing tests to measure haemoglobin. Other teams don’t. “It’s not something we have ever done or would do,” Jonathan Vaughters, chief executive of the EF Education First-Easy Post team, said. “I don’t see how knowing haemoglobin mass is going to be that valuable.”

The danger is that if the Detalo Blood Volume Analyser or any similar device falls into the hands of the unscrupulous, it could be used for carbon monoxide inhalation, leading to hypoxia and the body’s natural response to this would be to create more red cells. “There is no hard evidence that WorldTeams are using CO inhalation for performance enhancement,” Ronan McLaughlin wrote in his piece for Escape Collective. “But their exploration of the technique alone makes it more likely that someone else will cross that line, and both scientists and team officials Escape spoke with voiced concern about the potential for abuse.

 

[Remote]

For a guy who claims he doesn't believe cyclists are clean, you're making a lot of posts defending them.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

For a guy who claims he doesn't believe cyclists are clean, you're making a lot of posts defending them.

Your reading what you want to read. I havent said anything about cycling being clean. But to say the technological and scientific advancements haven't improved the riders that's disingenuous. You can take 2024 PEDs but if your using 2010's methods of equipment data and strategy then you'll only get so far. That's why a team like Moviestar (the oldest in the peloton) have struggled because they didn't evolved with the times quick enough. Same with Ineos who were the most successful team of the 2010's.

Give athletes with freakish physiology + juice + the latest technological equipment and Scientific data and you get the results that we are getting in modern cycling. If I've already accepted that they are doped and I'm still watching then why am I going to complain about it or bring it up all the time.

 

[jj23]

Carapaz bridging to Yates was a beautiful thing

 

[Jean toomer]

Pogacar on another level. Looking like he’s doing a time trial and everyone else climbing a 9% mountain. Catching Jorgensen from 3 mins back is surreal.

 

[Remote]

Pogacar on another level. Looking like he’s doing a time trial and everyone else climbing a 9% mountain. Catching Jorgensen from 3 mins back is surreal.

 

[jj23]

Yeah Lance had a million questions around him. Contactor had that type of acceleration and got caught. I think he is a great talent but this doesn't look normal.

 

[the artist known az]

Got damn Nice is beautiful

I need a 3 week vacation going between there and Monaco

 

[Jean toomer]

Remco thought it was one way Jonas told him it was another way

 

[the artist known az]

Waiting on Pogacar to take off on them