dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
I’m really annoyed by this. 125 ain’t even a lot in some metro’s, Schumer should know this being a fukking NY senator.
Official Student Debt Cancellation Watch Thread
- Thread starter Serious
- Start date
Exactly
richaveli83
Veteran
I don't think student loans will be forgiven. I think they'll change it so that loans can be wiped out in bankruptcy.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Lots of people who make more than $125K often have crazy loads of debt. Black people are underrepresented in the $125K+ demographic, so this means test was designed to maximally close the black-white wealth/equity gap. It's an open point of academic debate though.
how should we measure the racial wealth gap? relative vs. absolute gaps in the student debt forgiveness debate
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
So basically, if you are one of the few black people who took on crazy debt to move out the lower rungs of the economic ladder, fukk you.
academic debate needs to meet actual people. A good 80% of my black friends from college and/or Bschool have crazy debt, we’re not young anymore and I still have friends paying down 50k+ loans just for undergrad. This isn’t a large group across the national stage so it’s easy to marginalize us (and others like us from different races), but it’s high key comedy to act like let’s dismiss them because there aren’t enough numbers...
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
I think it's more that there are a lot of black people who took on debt, but the majority of them aren't making $125K+. The bucket you and your friends are in is disproportionately white. So a total debt forgiveness jubilee targeted to help your bucket would end up giving a disproportionate benefit to White people and expand the black-white wealth gap. A small minority of black people would rise with whites, but black people as a whole would fall.
This isn't to say the situation with you and your friends doesn't suck, I just don't think it's representative of the vast majority of black student debt holders. Black people making $125K+ don't really seem to be the most at-risk demographic within the black community, and their student debts don't seem to be materially holding them back as much as lower-income black debt holders. It seems like your situation is mainly a function of regional cost-of-living disparities though.
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
I don’t think anyone is realistically looking for a total debt jubilee
And lol @ not being at risk. You do realize we have the same backgrounds and families as those who don’t make 125k. My friends aren’t made up of the fabled black bourgeoisie. We came from lower middle class to middle class families in places like Oakland, LA, Detroit, Baltimore, DC, Queens and Brooklyn, we just so happened to go to good schools. All of us have tons of debt, even moreso than the avg black college grad thanks to grad school, yet still have the same issues of needing to, and/or wanting to, support others on our families, the people who struggle to pay bills or need some help covering property taxes or bail for your fukking deadbeat brothers. Miss me with not being held back.
and to your last point, there is a COL component in which 125k is not a high income in America’s coastal metros, I could see 200k as a real phase out, but you can start out at 100k as a cop in the bay given the high COL, the Dems sound like republicans with this bullshyt.
There is a black-white wealth gap because white people had a 400+ year head start on establishing wealth than we did. The only thing that will fix that is reparations. This is white people's problem to fix, but our issue alone.
The student loan debt crisis is an American issue and forgiveness will be most impactful to those with larger balances and no income to match. It's not a race thing to me. The federal government holds these loans so in my view it's the equivalent of my parents letting me slide on money they let me borrow.
Imagine complaining about us being underrepresented at top schools and then punishing the ones who get it done.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Ok, so what corrective would you be looking to apply to the student debt cancellation policy?
I didn't say this $125K+ black demo isn't at risk (all black wealth is at risk), I said it's not the most at risk demo in the black community. Which seems to me like a pretty incontrovertible statement, but if you would like to argue for a policy that privileges the concerns of black folk making six figures at the expense equity for the majority of black folk (mean household income of $60K, median household income is $41K), go ahead. But I think it's objectively incorrect and pretty blinkered to draw an equivalency between black folk who go to a good school and leave with a job making $125K+ and black folk who did not go to a good school and make half of that. Yeah it sucks to have to get calls to bail out your deadbeat brother, but it sucks more being that deadbeat or their kid. Miss me with that "top 10 percentile of black income/wealth are in the same situation as the bottom 90 percentile". You're essentially denying the existence of a black upper class.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
See, this is an honest argument. Student debt cancellation IS NOT reparations, just like Medicare For All or any other myriad of government programs that would give a disproportionate hand up to black folks aren't reparations. Reparations have to have a racial means test, which student debt cancellation does not. But that doesn't mean we cannot factor in the black-white wealth gap when designing policies. The vast majority of progressive housing policies do not have a racial means test but are designed to ameliorate the racial wealth gap and correct for the history of redlining. Just because something isn't reparations doesn't mean it can't be a good idea to pursue from the perspective of black economic benefit.
But I'm not even necessarily opposed to total student debt cancellation on the grounds that you mention; it's an American issue, and even though explicitly racist anti-black factors are what led to black folks being disproportionately targeted and harmed by the student debt industrial complex, non-blacks were harmed as well. I just think we'd also need to contend with the possibility of an unintended consequence of the expansion of the racial wealth gap if that's the policy being pursued.
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
i'm moving on the assumption of 10-50k being forgiven, nothing about full forgiveness is on the board with this administration. i don't get why people keep having that conversation when it's clear that's not even on the board.
you do understand that those making 125k+ aren't just UG degree holders. i've admitted it's a small share of black people, but the cost of crossing the six figure mark was 2-5x more for most black folk than their counterparts who simply hold UG degrees. and splitting hairs between "most" at risk with black wealth is clown shyt. nothing about including all income levels or raising the income limit is about creating a policy to privilege anyone. it's about applying the policy to all. and no, i won't miss you with anything as i see day in and day out nothing is different for my friends who are doctors vs friends who are teachers/social workers/etc. higher income + higher debt burden + same familial economic b/g = ok, sure you may have a few nicer things and more savings, but you're no where near where you'd be coming from an upper income family, specifically white wealth.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Yeah, because I’m a conservative....Imagine considering a focus on helping the less well-off more than the well-off punishing the latter group.
That's some conservative dogma slipping out there
Black faces in high places
Class solidarity over racial solidarity
The policy isn’t about helping those most at risk, it’s about correcting a mistake we made with education and the cost of it. It is essentially a reset.