Official Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Collapse Thread...They're absolutely FU&KED!!!

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/16/w...ince-shatters-decades-of-royal-tradition.html

Rise of Saudi Prince Shatters Decades of Royal Tradition
By MARK MAZZETTI and OCT. 15, 2016

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Mohammed bin Salman, Saudi Arabia’s deputy crown prince, has a hand in nearly all elements of Saudi policy. Fayez Nureldine/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
He has slashed the state budget, frozen government contracts and reduced the pay of civil employees, all part of drastic austerity measures as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is buffeted by low oil prices.

But last year, Mohammed bin Salman, Saudi Arabia’s deputy crown prince, saw a yacht he couldn’t resist.

While vacationing in the south of France, Prince bin Salman spotted a 440-foot yacht floating off the coast. He dispatched an aide to buy the ship, the Serene, which was owned by Yuri Shefler, a Russian vodka tyc00n. The deal was done within hours, at a price of approximately 500 million euros (roughly $550 million today), according to an associate of Mr. Shefler and a Saudi close to the royal family. The Russian moved off the yacht the same day.

It is the paradox of the brash, 31-year-old Prince bin Salman: a man who is trying to overturn tradition, reinvent the economy and consolidate power — while holding tight to his royal privilege. In less than two years, he has emerged as the most dynamic royal in the Arab world’s wealthiest nation, setting up a potential rivalry for the throne.



He has a hand in nearly all elements of Saudi policy — from a war in Yemen that has cost the kingdom billions of dollars and led to international criticism over civilian deaths, to a push domestically to restrain Saudi Arabia’s free-spending habits and to break its “addiction” to oil. He has begun to loosen social restrictions that grate on young people.

The rise of Prince bin Salman has shattered decades of tradition in the royal family, where respect for seniority and power-sharing among branches are time-honored traditions. Never before in Saudi history has so much power been wielded by the deputy crown prince, who is second in line to the throne. That centralization of authority has angered many of his relatives.

His seemingly boundless ambitions have led many Saudis and foreign officials to suspect that his ultimate goal is not just to transform the kingdom, but also to shove aside the current crown prince, his 57-year-old cousin, Mohammed bin Nayef, to become the next king. Such a move could further upset his relatives and — if successful — give the country what it has never seen: a young king who could rule the kingdom for many decades.

Crown Prince bin Nayef, the interior minister and longtime counterterrorism czar, has deep ties to Washington and the support of many of the older royals. Deciphering the dynamics of the family can be like trying to navigate a hall of mirrors, but many Saudi and American officials say Prince bin Salman has made moves aimed at reaching into Prince bin Nayef’s portfolios and weakening him.

This has left officials in Washington hedging their bets by building relationships with both men, unsure who will end up on top. The White House got an early sign of the ascent of the young prince in late 2015, when — breaking protocol — Prince bin Salman delivered a soliloquy about the failures of American foreign policy during a meeting between his father, King Salman, and President Obama.

Many young Saudis admire him as an energetic representative of their generation who has addressed some of the country’s problems with uncommon bluntness. The kingdom’s news media have built his image as a hardworking, businesslike leader less concerned than his predecessors with the trappings of royalty.

Others see him as a power-hungry upstart who is risking instability by changing too much, too fast.

Months of interviews with Saudi and American officials, members of the royal family and their associates, and diplomats focused on Saudi affairs reveal a portrait of a prince in a hurry to prove that he can transform Saudi Arabia. Prince bin Salman declined multiple interview requests for this article.

But the question many raise — and cannot yet answer — is whether the energetic leader will succeed in charting a new path for the kingdom, or whether his impulsiveness and inexperience will destabilize the Arab world’s largest economy at a time of turbulence in the Middle East.

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Prince Mohammed bin Salman, left, and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Nayef of Saudi Arabia. Many Saudis and foreign officials believe Prince bin Salman’s goal is to become the next king. Fayez Nureldine/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
Tension at the Top
Early this year, Crown Prince bin Nayef left the kingdom for his family’s villa in Algeria, a sprawling compound an hour’s drive north of Algiers. Although he has long taken annual hunting vacations there, many who know him said that this year was different. He stayed away for weeks, largely incommunicado and often refusing to respond to messages from Saudi officials and close associates in Washington. Even John O. Brennan, the C.I.A. director, whom he has known for decades, had difficulty reaching him.

The crown prince has diabetes, and suffers from the lingering effects of an assassination attempt in 2009 by a jihadist who detonated a bomb he had hidden in his rectum.

But his lengthy absence at a time of low oil prices, turmoil in the Middle East and a foundering Saudi-led war in Yemen led several American officials to conclude that the crown prince was fleeing frictions with his younger cousin and that the prince was worried his chance to ascend the throne was in jeopardy.

Since King Salman ascended to the throne in January 2015, new powers had been flowing to his son, some of them undermining the authority of the crown prince. King Salman collapsed the crown prince’s court into his own, giving Prince bin Salman control over access to the king. Prince bin Salman also hastily announced the formation of a military alliance of Islamic countries to fight terrorism. Counterterrorism had long been the domain of Prince bin Nayef, but the new plan gave no role to him or his powerful Interior Ministry.

The exact personal relationship between the two men is unclear, fueling discussion in Saudi Arabia and in foreign capitals about who is ascendant. Obscuring the picture are the stark differences in the men’s public profiles. Prince bin Nayef has largely stayed in the shadows, although he did visit New York last month to address the United Nations General Assembly before heading to Turkey for a state visit.

His younger cousin, meanwhile, has worked to remain in the spotlight, touring world capitals, speaking with foreign journalists, being photographed with the Facebook chairman Mark Zuckerberg and presenting himself as a face of a new Saudi Arabia.

“There is no topic that is more important than succession matters, especially now,” said Joseph A. Kechichian, a senior fellow at the King Faisal Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, who has extensive contacts in the Saudi royal family. “This matters for monarchy, for the regional allies and for the kingdom’s international partners.”

Among the most concrete initiatives so far of Prince bin Salman, who serves as minister of defense, is the Saudi-led war in Yemen, which since it was begun last year has failed to dislodge the Shiite Houthi rebels and their allies from the Yemeni capital. The war has driven much of Yemen toward famine and killed thousands of civilians while costing the Saudi government tens of billions of dollars.

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Saudi troops along the country’s border with Yemen. The war in Yemen has cost the kingdom billions and led to international criticism. Carolyn Cole/Los Angeles Times, via Getty Images
The prosecution of the war by a prince with no military experience has exacerbated tensions between him and his older cousins, according to American officials and members of the royal family. Three of Saudi Arabia’s main security services are run by princes. Although all agreed that the kingdom had to respond when the Houthis seized the Yemeni capital and forced the government into exile, Prince bin Salman took the lead, launching the war in March 2015 without full coordination across the security services.

The head of the National Guard, Prince Mutaib bin Abdullah, had not been informed and was out of the country when the first strikes were carried out, according to a senior National Guard officer.

The National Guard is now holding much of the Yemeni border.

American officials, too, were put off when, just as the Yemen campaign was escalating, Prince bin Salman took a vacation in the Maldives, the island archipelago off the coast of India. Several American officials said Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter had trouble reaching him for days during one part of the trip.

The prolonged war has also heightened tensions between Prince bin Salman and Prince bin Nayef, who won the respect of Saudis and American officials for dismantling Al Qaeda in the kingdom nearly a decade ago and now sees it taking advantage of chaos in Yemen, according to several American officials and analysts.

“If Mohammed bin Nayef wanted to be seen as a big supporter of this war, he’s had a year and a half to do it,” said Bruce Riedel, a former Middle East analyst at the C.I.A. and a fellow at the Brookings Institution.

Near the start of the war, Prince bin Salman was a forceful public advocate for the campaign and was often photographed visiting troops and meeting with military leaders. But as the campaign has stalemated, such appearances have grown rare.

The war underlines the plans of Prince bin Salman for a brawny foreign policy for the kingdom, one less reliant on Western powers like the United States for its security. He has criticized the thawing of America’s relations with Iran and comments by Mr. Obama during an interview this year that Saudi Arabia must “share the neighborhood” with Iran.

This is part of what analysts say is Prince bin Salman’s attempt to foster a sense of Saudi national identity that has not existed since the kingdom’s founding in 1932.

“There has been a surge of Saudi nationalism since the campaign in Yemen began, with the sense that Saudi Arabia is taking independent collective action,” said Andrew Bowen, a Saudi expert at the Wilson Center in Washington.

Still, Mr. Bowen said support among younger Saudis could diminish the longer the conflict dragged on. Diplomats say the death toll for Saudi troops is higher than the government has publicly acknowledged, and a recent deadly airstrike on a funeral in the Yemeni capital has renewed calls by human rights groups and some American lawmakers to block or delay weapons sales to the kingdom.

People who have met Prince bin Salman said he insisted that Saudi Arabia must be more assertive in shaping events in the Middle East and confronting Iran’s influence in the region — whether in Yemen, Syria, Iraq or Lebanon.

Brian Katulis, a Middle East expert at the Center for American Progress in Washington, who met the prince this year in Riyadh, said his agenda was clear.

“His main message is that Saudi Arabia is a force to be reckoned with,” Mr. Katulis said.

Interesting read, he'll either run them into the ground or lead them to prosperity. There's no middle ground, that's gotta make them all nervous. I think he gets murdered because he's trying to change too much
 

ZoeGod

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He is ambitious but he lack experience. He foolishly started a war in Yemen that is a graveyard for invaders. He overestimate Saudi Arabia's military power. If he thinks he can militarily challenge Iran in Yemen,Iraq,Lebanon,Syria he is in for alot of trouble. All they have is money. Money can take you so far. Carthage was the richest empire in the world. Only Hannibal tried to militarily defeat the Romans in the ground but even then he could defeat Roses never ending legions. Rome came out on top in the end. Saudi Arabia is the modern Carthage.

The main thing is the war in Yemen is a stalemate and the Saudis are spending 20 million a day in that war. Also the Saudis can't win the war without a massive ground force invading the North of Yemen. Both Pakistan and Egypt refused to aid Saudi Arabia in sendino ground troops because they knew it would be a bloodbath. Early last week the Saudis made a plan to start an offensive in North Yemen with pro Hadi forces. This was the result.


:francis: A massacre. As I said he started a war in Yemen that is burning their cash reserves like a ho who married a billionaire. When you look at the videos in youtube the Saudis are suffering heavy casualties and attrition. They hire mercenaries from Latin America but that still isn't helping them. Also Qaeda and ISIS is operating in Yemen openly and will soon spread into the kingdom. This is a George Bush type of blunder of a war. If he is Saudi Arabia's best hope I can't wait for the downfall.:wow: It will be lit.

If I'm Iran my strategy to bring down the Saudis would be to increase oil production to 5 million a day. Then start some shyt in Bahrain to overstretch the Saudis. Buy hella Russian and Chinese weapons. Arm the North Yemenis when the war is over with manpads and ATGMs.
 
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Red Shield

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While vacationing in the south of France, Prince bin Salman spotted a 440-foot yacht floating off the coast. He dispatched an aide to buy the ship, the Serene, which was owned by Yuri Shefler, a Russian vodka tyc00n. The deal was done within hours, at a price of approximately 500 million euros (roughly $550 million today), according to an associate of Mr. Shefler and a Saudi close to the royal family. The Russian moved off the yacht the same day.

it's like that scene in Syriana. Back to herders their going :skip:

Their fukked :wow:
 

Wild self

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He is ambitious but he lack experience. He foolishly started a war in Yemen that is a graveyard for invaders. He overestimate Saudi Arabia's military power. If he thinks he can militarily challenge Iran in Yemen,Iraq,Lebanon,Syria he is in for alot of trouble. All they have is money. Money can take you so far. Carthage was the richest empire in the world. Only Hannibal tried to militarily defeat the Romans in the ground but even then he could defeat Roses never ending legions. Rome came out on top in the end. Saudi Arabia is the modern Carthage.

The main thing is the war in Yemen is a stalemate and the Saudis are spending 20 million a day in that war. Also the Saudis can't win the war without a massive ground force invading the North of Yemen. Both Pakistan and Egypt refused to aid Saudi Arabia in sendino ground troops because they knew it would be a bloodbath. Early last week the Saudis made a plan to start an offensive in North Yemen with pro Hadi forces. This was the result.


:francis: A massacre. As I said he started a war in Yemen that is burning their cash reserves like a ho who married a billionaire. When you look at the videos in youtube the Saudis are suffering heavy casualties and attrition. They hire mercenaries from Latin America but that still isn't helping them. Also Qaeda and ISIS is operating in Yemen openly and will soon spread into the kingdom. This is a George Bush type of blunder of a war. If he is Saudi Arabia's best hope I can't wait for the downfall.:wow: It will be lit.

If I'm Iran my strategy to bring down the Saudis would be to increase oil production to 5 million a day. Then start some shyt in Bahrain to overstretch the Saudis. Buy hella Russian and Chinese weapons. Arm the North Yemenis when the war is over with manpads and ATGMs.


Latin American mercenaries getting bodied in the middle east....:wow:

Saudi Arabia is done.
 

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Lunch with the FT: Ali al-Naimi on two decades as Saudi’s oil king
Over Dover sole in Mayfair, Saudi Arabia’s former oil minister talks about his frustrations with Opec, his early years as a nomad — and why he will be proved right

Lunch with the FT
New Saudi oil minister signals end to glut[/paste:font]
12


8 HOURS AGO
by: Roula Khalaf

© James Feguson
I am just a few minutes into my lunch with Ali al-Naimi and we are thousands of miles away in another era, racing across the sands of eastern Saudi Arabia on his mother’s white camel. It was her dowry in her second marriage and she took it on long trips in the 1950s — just as other Bedouin women now drive trucks and cars on desert tracks; the national ban on women driving, one of the more outrageous aspects of life in Saudi Arabia, is rarely enforced in remote parts of the kingdom. Naimi, Saudi Arabia’s legendary former oil minister, laughs. “In the past you used to see women riding camels, and now you see them driving Toyotas with the camels in the back of the car.”


We are at George, an elegant brasserie and private club in the heart of Mayfair, seated at a small round table beneath a David Hockney print. The diminutive Naimi, 81, is dressed in a three-piece suit, arguably a little too formal for the chic modern setting. For two decades, as the man responsible for the policy of the world’s largest oil exporter, Naimi bestrode the energy markets like a colossus. The “oil king” has never liked reporters. They have chased him relentlessly over the years. At summits of Opec, the cartel of oil exporters, the more determined took to accompanying him on his early-morning runs seeking to dissect his sometimes cryptic words, his mood and even his body language for clues about the direction of oil prices. He could be humorous with them at times and cantankerous at others. Now, six months after retiring, he is in a mellow mood, eager to tell stories.

Having just published a memoir, Out of the Desert, Naimi’s mind drifts back easily to tales of his childhood growing up in a nomad’s tent. I, of course, am keen to press him on the biggest bet of his long career. In November 2014, with the oil price in freefall, he convinced the ruling royal family to take an enormous gamble. For decades, the kingdom’s role had been as a swing producer, taking its output up or down to balance the oil price. On this occasion, Saudi Arabia abandoned that policy and stunned global markets by opting not to cut its production to bolster prices but instead keep pumping oil to protect its market share. The consequences still overshadow the global economy. After roughly four years at more than $100 a barrel, the price of oil tumbled, hitting a low below $30 earlier this year before staging a recovery to about $50.

 … 

We are both starting with the yellowtail sashimi. Naimi orders the Dover sole for a main course, while I choose the miso cod. When the mains are served, Naimi is excited at the sight of the sprouting broccoli. He takes a bite and nods approvingly, telling me he first tasted the lanky vegetable on a trip to Australia. Naimi is a traveller. A geologist by training, he loves hiking — and sometimes indulges in it at curious times. There was, for instance, the notorious disappearing act in the run-up to the 2014 Opec meeting that sent the markets into a frenzy. “I like to climb, I went to Austria,” he says, as if it was just another trip.

As we settle into our lunch, Naimi explains the logic behind his momentous decision. The era of oil selling at more than $100 a barrel had radically changed the market, encouraging new producers with higher costs to join in, and fuelling the US shale revolution. As oil flooded on to the market, countries outside Opec refused to cut their output. Inside Opec, there was resistance, too. Saudi Arabia was not about to act on its own. “It would have been stupid of Saudi Arabia to agree to a cut then,” Naimi says. “More non-Opec production would have come [on the markets]. We had no choice.” As producers pumped more oil after the 2014 decision, however, prices continued to fall, dropping much lower than the range the Saudis had anticipated. The collapse hit Saudi revenues hard and squeezed the state budget. Naimi came in for severe criticism at home. Abroad, many questioned whether his bet would backfire.

Intriguingly, Naimi ends his memoirs just after that fateful Opec meeting two years ago. When I ask why, his eyes twinkle and he smiles. He says, half in jest, that he intends to write another book, and has more to say about people and events. More seriously, he tells me that he knew “it was going to get worse”.

Naimi is haunted by a period in Saudi oil history that he describes in his book as the mistake that had cost one famous predecessor as oil minister — Zaki Yamani — his job. It was back in the 1980s, amid a surge in non-Opec production from Alaska’s North Slope, the North Sea, and Mexico. Saudi Arabia became the swing producer. When it sought to regain its share, prices collapsed.

Naimi learnt a lesson and adopted a different tack, but will his own gambit also go down in history as a miscalculation? After all, his successor Khalid Al-Falih may move towards reversing it. Meanwhile, predictions in Riyadh that lower prices would inflict lasting damage on the US shale industry underestimated the resilience of that sector: some small producers have gone out of business but, as prices have slowly recovered in recent months, others appear to be weathering the storm.

Naimi is known to be single-minded and stubborn and is not about to show me otherwise. There is no hint of hesitation when he declares that he was “absolutely correct” in his decision. “I didn’t think or say we want to take [shale] out. I said we don’t want to lose more market share. Let the price be decided by the market,” he says. “Anybody who thinks he or any country is going to influence the price in today’s environment is out of his mind.” Going back on the policy he recommended to the king at that time would be inadvisable, he insists. “I have no idea why they want a reversal because a high price will definitely bring more crude to the market and Opec will further lose [market] share.”

He has put down his knife and fork; the waitress is giving us a worried look. There’s nothing wrong with the sole, Naimi reassures her gently. “I’m a fisherman and I know good fish, and that’s good fish.” Then he turns to me and, returning to the past, says that the first time he tasted fish was after he married his wife, who is from Bahrain, the small group of islands east of Saudi Arabia whose name in Arabic means “the two seas”.

Saudi Aramco is working on a public listing, something that would have been taboo under King Abdullah, the late monarch with whom he has worked most closely. Energy subsidies have been slashed, as have benefits for state employees. I ask Naimi whether this diversification effort will be more credible than previous and largely unsuccessful restructuring attempts over the past 20 years. Watch the oil price, he says. When prices are depressed, Saudi Arabia acts, and when they rise again, it “relaxes”. This time is more serious, though. “The best thing is to quit talking and start acting,” he continues. “I believe that’s where we are now. We are beginning to act.”

Nearly two hours have passed and we are back where we started, discussing Saudi women and driving. Will a kingdom that promotes a puritanical Wahhabi Islam, where clerics exert overwhelming influence, ever modernise? Will it ever let its women thrive, and allow them to drive? Naimi takes me back through history one last time, to the 1979 Iranian revolution. Saudi Arabia’s reaction to the fall of the Shah was to “become holier than thou”, he says. He believes the contract between the monarchy and the religious establishment, which handed the clerics the authority to impose social norms, is fraying, and senior princes who were the main stumbling block to women driving have passed away in recent years. Naimi has five granddaughters and they all have non-Saudi driving licences. “I’m a liberal grandfather, I tell them all, ‘Don’t get married until you graduate,’ ” he says. “The world is changing, let’s change with it.”

Roula Khalaf is deputy editor of the FT

Illustration by James Ferguson
 
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