Obamacare has led to a increase in US death rate

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Baby boomers and the greatest generations were fatter than previous aged, had more stationary jobs that the previous generation, and again the obesity rate was growing at a faster rate through those generations than it is currently where we are actually experienced the decline in life expectancy, so to claim those factors now seems weak, imho.

You confused? The baby boomers the ones dying now. The major shift in eating habits and work lives in America really kicked up post-1950s, so today's 70-year-olds were the first to experience their entire adulthood in it and today's 50-year-olds the first for all childhood. The greatest generation didn't even hardly touch fast food as kids, and it wasn't until the 1980s that kids were getting full-on raised on fast food and eating chips every day. Meanwhile, the huge antibiotic and vaccine gains still affected people in living memory - those are both areas the Greatest Generation saw shift in their lives. Of course we're only now seeing a shift in the other direction.
 

David_TheMan

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You confused? The baby boomers the ones dying now. The major shift in eating habits and work lives in America really kicked up post-1950s, so today's 70-year-olds were the first to experience their entire adulthood in it and today's 50-year-olds the first for all childhood. The greatest generation didn't even hardly touch fast food as kids, and it wasn't until the 1980s that kids were getting full-on raised on fast food and eating chips every day. Meanwhile, the huge antibiotic and vaccine gains still affected people in living memory - those are both areas the Greatest Generation saw shift in their lives. Of course we're only now seeing a shift in the other direction.

Why would I be confused when you are the one not actually replying to any points I'm making?
Baby boomers dying means nothing, there are always people dying, the questions is why life expectancy is dropping and death rate increasing.
I'll give you props there is no direct connection presented, between it being ACA, but at the same token the claim that its sedentary lifestyle and work eating habits has no connection or even correlation for reasons I've pointed out.
Fast food isn't unhealthy, eating and not working off calories that you consumed is what causes obesity. Fast food existed before the 80s as well, 60s and 70s kids had fast food, so that claim doesn't hold up as well.
Anti-biotic and vaccine gains, the biggest vaccine was smallpox and the flu and both occured during the "greatest" generation, not the baby boomers. That said again you had higher growth rates for adult obesity and childhood obesity and yet continued growth in health care stats such as life expectancy and lowering death rate, so I would say there is no basis on those arguments as well.

I just noticed you're claiming 6-7 years after effect but quoting 2015 rates. More ridiculousness - those deaths are ONE year after Obamacare started.

And your quotes are the ones that connect drop in life expectancy to less innovation. Don't run from that now. If you have a different excuse than the one listed, explain how and when.

And nice attempt at diversion with the lag times - complaining about gov to hide that my point is accurate and precedes ACA.

I'm not claiming anything, I specifically said now would be the time you see the results from the effects of Obamacara.

Again Obamacare was activated in 2010 and fully implemented in 2015, so you seem to be the one who is confused.

Not attempting any diversions as well, I've been pretty straightforward and addressed your points directly.
 

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Why would I be confused when you are the one not actually replying to any points I'm making?
Baby boomers dying means nothing, there are always people dying, the questions is why life expectancy is dropping and death rate increasing.
I'll give you props there is no direct connection presented, between it being ACA, but at the same token the claim that its sedentary lifestyle and work eating habits has no connection or even correlation for reasons I've pointed out.
Fast food isn't unhealthy, eating and not working off calories that you consumed is what causes obesity. Fast food existed before the 80s as well, 60s and 70s kids had fast food, so that claim doesn't hold up as well.
Anti-biotic and vaccine gains, the biggest vaccine was smallpox and the flu and both occured during the "greatest" generation, not the baby boomers. That said again you had higher growth rates for adult obesity and childhood obesity and yet continued growth in health care stats such as life expectancy and lowering death rate, so I would say there is no basis on those arguments as well.

Your desire to ignore the evidence to prove yourself right is ridiculous. I'm hesitant to keep going with full arguments because you grasp of logic right here is so poor.

Fast food is incredibly unhealthy. White bread buns, high-fat meat, fries soaked in unhealthy oils, corn syrup and vegetable oil based ice cream, and then of course the high-calorie sodas. Everything about it is a dumping of calories into your system without all the other nutrient and roughage that make for a complete diet. From a pure calorie perspective, fast food is a poor idea, but it's bad for you for a dozen reasons beyond that. And that's only one example of the high-fat, high-sugar, high-preservative and other chemical diets of processed food that America is gorged on.

For some reason you're saying the idiot statement that "60s and 70s kids had fast food". People spent 20 times as much on fast food in 2000 ($110 billion) as they did in 1970 ($6 billion). There were 700 McDonalds in 1965, 7,000 McDonalds in 1985, and 14,000 McDonalds by 2005. The massive growth in fast food only started slipping around 2002, and didn't start dropping until very recently. Obviously, people who spent the most years under it's influence are going to be the most affected. So you want to claim that minor differences in health care are changing life expectancy in just a couple years, but a couple decades of massive increase in the consumption of crappy unhealthy food doesn't?

Again, these are HUGE changes. Massive issues in how we live. Not tiny made-up changes from a couple of years of people have slightly different insurance plans.
 

David_TheMan

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Your desire to ignore the evidence to prove yourself right is ridiculous. I'm hesitant to keep going with full arguments because you grasp of logic right here is so poor.

Fast food is incredibly unhealthy. White bread buns, high-fat meat, fries soaked in unhealthy oils, corn syrup and vegetable oil based ice cream, and then of course the high-calorie sodas. Everything about it is a dumping of calories into your system without all the other nutrient and roughage that make for a complete diet. From a pure calorie perspective, fast food is a poor idea, but it's bad for you for a dozen reasons beyond that. And that's only one example of the high-fat, high-sugar, high-preservative and other chemical diets of processed food that America is gorged on.

For some reason you're saying the idiot statement that "60s and 70s kids had fast food". People spent 20 times as much on fast food in 2000 ($110 billion) as they did in 1970 ($6 billion). There were 700 McDonalds in 1965, 7,000 McDonalds in 1985, and 14,000 McDonalds by 2005. The massive growth in fast food only started slipping around 2002, and didn't start dropping until very recently. Obviously, people who spent the most years under it's influence are going to be the most affected. So you want to claim that minor differences in health care are changing life expectancy in just a couple years, but a couple decades of massive increase in the consumption of crappy unhealthy food doesn't?

Again, these are HUGE changes. Massive issues in how we live. Not tiny made-up changes from a couple of years of people have slightly different insurance plans.
What evidence have i ignored? Seems you are trying to attack me now, than simply make your argument, because i addressed every point you made with a rebuttal to said point. If you are not able or unwilling to continue a discussion, fine with me, we can easily agree to disagree and move on, it isn't personal to me.

Fast food isn't incredibly unhealthy, its food. There is nothing unsafe about white bread. There is nothing wrong with meat with high fat content. French fries aren't soaked in oil, the deep fry process doesn't soak the food with oil when done properly, it crisps up the outside and traps moisture inside what is being fried. Corn syrup isn't unhealthy, vegetable oil isn't unhealy. Sodas are high in calories, but they aren't inherently unhealthy either. Also on top of that, high diets aren't unhealthy unless you don't burn it off, and that is the choice of the person eating in how they regularly exercise. You could eat fresh fruit and vegetables and if you consume more calories than your burn off you are going to gain weight. Do it long enough and you will become obese. So right there off the bat you are coming with false food info that has no scientific basis.

There is nothing idiotic about saying there was fast food in the 60s and 70s, those are actual facts. If facts are idiotic to you though, that might be way you started off your post with personal attacks, you have nothing substantive to discuss, just irrational ideas and personal preference. As for the money spent no one said usage of fast food did not increase, my point is that it existed then just as it does now. There is no influence of fast food, either you go or you don't and either you expend more calories than you intake or you dont.

What minor differences in health care have I claimed, post it please?

You haven't posted any huge changes at all, also again, the rate of growth in obesity was greater in the 80s and 90s than it has been in the 00s and 10s yet its only now that we are experiencing a decline in health metrics after government subsidized insurance was implemented. It points to the fast food and obesity angle not providing causation or correlation to the life expectancy or death rate. You have yet to present anything to support your contention.
 

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Fast food is the 'unhealthy choice', McDonald's tells its own staff

Fast Food Still as Unhealthy as Ever

InsideTrack: Is fast food really that bad for you?

Reasons why fast food is bad for health - Times of India



You claim it's just a calorie relation, while appearing to be clueless about why people eat too many calories. Your body has natural mechanisms that tell you when you're full. Eat fresh fruits and vegetables and a well-rounded diet, and these mechanisms get triggered. Eat empty calories, and the mechanisms get ignored - either because your body keeps yearning after missing nutrients from the poorly balanced foods or being there is a high calorie-to-food-bulk ratio. Also, eat pre-made high-calorie meals, rather than food at home, and you'll tend to stuff more calories in you. Studies have shown that children eat 200-300 more calories per meal when they eat fast food than when they eat at home.




There is nothing idiotic about saying there was fast food in the 60s and 70s, those are actual facts. If facts are idiotic to you though, that might be way you started off your post with personal attacks, you have nothing substantive to discuss, just irrational ideas and personal preference. As for the money spent no one said usage of fast food did not increase, my point is that it existed then just as it does now.

:snoop:

At this point I have to think you're only talking to yourself. How did you think that making the point that "fast food existed" was meaningful to anything whatsoever?




What minor differences in health care have I claimed, post it please?

:why:




You haven't posted any huge changes at all, also again, the rate of growth in obesity was greater in the 80s and 90s than it has been in the 00s and 10s yet its only now that we are experiencing a decline in health metrics after government subsidized insurance was implemented. It points to the fast food and obesity angle not providing causation or correlation to the life expectancy or death rate. You have yet to present anything to support your contention.

The rate of growth in obesity was greatest in the 80s and 90s. When the heck did you think those people were going to die? People don't fall over with heart attacks the second they get fat, they get fat first, and then die early a few decades later. Some dude hits 300 pounds when he's 30, he's got going to die at 31, he's probably going to die early in his 50s or 60s. A huge growth in obesity in the 1980s and 1990s fits perfectly with increasing death rates in the 2010s.


Seriously, you seem so wildly fixated on immediate-date correlations, I'm surprised you haven't attributed the fall in life expectancy to a Black president or Lebron James or something yet. You're ignoring obvious, massive changes in American lifestyle

There were already plenty of articles, from 2005-2012, explaining the signs that a drop in life expectancy was coming, as the most vulnerable groups were already seeing stagnation and drop before Obamacare was even in effect. This obviously had nothing to do with Obamacare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/17/h...pectancy-being-cut-short-by-obesity.html?_r=0

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr043743#t=article

U.S. Life Expectancy Declines

Doctors Warned Life Expectancy Could Go Down, And It Did | Smart News | Smithsonian

Life Expectancy for Less Educated Whites in U.S. Is Shrinking
 

David_TheMan

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Fast food is the 'unhealthy choice', McDonald's tells its own staff

Fast Food Still as Unhealthy as Ever

InsideTrack: Is fast food really that bad for you?

Reasons why fast food is bad for health - Times of India



You claim it's just a calorie relation, while appearing to be clueless about why people eat too many calories. Your body has natural mechanisms that tell you when you're full. Eat fresh fruits and vegetables and a well-rounded diet, and these mechanisms get triggered. Eat empty calories, and the mechanisms get ignored - either because your body keeps yearning after missing nutrients from the poorly balanced foods or being there is a high calorie-to-food-bulk ratio. Also, eat pre-made high-calorie meals, rather than food at home, and you'll tend to stuff more calories in you. Studies have shown that children eat 200-300 more calories per meal when they eat fast food than when they eat at home.






:snoop:

At this point I have to think you're only talking to yourself. How did you think that making the point that "fast food existed" was meaningful to anything whatsoever?






:why:






The rate of growth in obesity was greatest in the 80s and 90s. When the heck did you think those people were going to die? People don't fall over with heart attacks the second they get fat, they get fat first, and then die early a few decades later. Some dude hits 300 pounds when he's 30, he's got going to die at 31, he's probably going to die early in his 50s or 60s. A huge growth in obesity in the 1980s and 1990s fits perfectly with increasing death rates in the 2010s.


Seriously, you seem so wildly fixated on immediate-date correlations, I'm surprised you haven't attributed the fall in life expectancy to a Black president or Lebron James or something yet. You're ignoring obvious, massive changes in American lifestyle

There were already plenty of articles, from 2005-2012, explaining the signs that a drop in life expectancy was coming, as the most vulnerable groups were already seeing stagnation and drop before Obamacare was even in effect. This obviously had nothing to do with Obamacare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/17/h...pectancy-being-cut-short-by-obesity.html?_r=0

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr043743#t=article

U.S. Life Expectancy Declines

Doctors Warned Life Expectancy Could Go Down, And It Did | Smart News | Smithsonian

Life Expectancy for Less Educated Whites in U.S. Is Shrinking


Your first link has Mcdonalds saying the title of the article is misleading and taken out of context and that its specifically talking about healthy low caloric options, not the safety or unfitness of its food.

the rest of your link are typical psuedoscience alarmist articles, that want to take the onus off personal caloric intake and put it on the restaurants instead of the individual consumer.

Actual myth and fact breakdown by university of michgan
https://www.med.umich.edu/pfans/docs/tip-2013/foodmyths-0713.pdf

As for obesity and gaining wait, it is scienfically purely a caloric intake and burning issue, that is how your body sees it, there is no difference in calories from fast food, organic food, or etc. Its calories. No difference in how the body sees protein, how it breaks down glucose and sucrose, and etc. As for empty calories, eat a head full of lettuce that has almost no calories since lettuce is comprised mainly of water and tell me if those empty calories leave you unfilled?

As for the myth of hfcs blocking leptin and making one over eat, simply no scientific evidence supports this under scrutiny.
Misconceptions about fructose-containing sugars and their role in the obesity epidemic
A causal role of fructose intake in the aetiology of the global obesity epidemic has been proposed in recent years. This proposition, however, rests on controversial interpretations of two distinct lines of research. On one hand, in mechanistic intervention studies, detrimental metabolic effects have been observed after excessive isolated fructose intakes in animals and human subjects. On the other hand, food disappearance data indicate that fructose consumption from added sugars has increased over the past decades and paralleled the increase in obesity. Both lines of research are presently insufficient to demonstrate a causal role of fructose in metabolic diseases, however. Most mechanistic intervention studies were performed on subjects fed large amounts of pure fructose, while fructose is ordinarily ingested together with glucose. The use of food disappearance data does not accurately reflect food consumption, and hence cannot be used as evidence of a causal link between fructose intake and obesity. Based on a thorough review of the literature, we demonstrate that fructose, as commonly consumed in mixed carbohydrate sources, does not exert specific metabolic effects that can account for an increase in body weight.
This is peer reviewed study, not psuedo science and fear mongering based on ignorance of the body.


As for fast food, you have nothing of substance to add , just putting a pic, typical.

You yet to post the claim I made, wonder why?

The rate that rose was largely adult obesity rate, adults, it did not correspond in the 60s (rate was rising) the 70s (rate was rising) with reduction in life expectancy or increase in death rate. we never saw that , instead we saw health metrics rise positively. As for your contention that obesity leads to death, scientifically there isn't much support for that

http://nypost.com/2015/03/22/why-dieting-doesnt-work/
Katherine Flegal, an epidemiologist at the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics, set out to map the relationship between BMI categories and mortality. They expected to find a linear relationship: The higher a person’s BMI, the greater his or her risk of dying prematurely.

But that’s not what they found. Instead, Flegal and her colleagues discovered what statisticians call a U-shaped curve, with the bottom of the curve — the lowest risk of death — falling around 25 to 26 on the BMI chart, making the risk of early death lowest for those now labeled overweight.

People considered “mildly obese” had roughly the same risk of dying as those in the “normal” category. Death rates went up for those on either end of the scale — underweight and severely obese — but not by much.

“The differences we’re talking about overall are pretty tiny,” explains Flegal.

:mjgrin:

As for your links, your first link has someone saying the following
Arialdi Minino, a statistician who worked on the report, told the Washington Post that officials have no idea what may have caused the fall in longevity in 2008.

"I would take this with a grain of salt," he told the Post. "These are preliminary numbers. You can never tell whether this is a little blip or some trend that will stay there and linger there for some time. You can't tell until you have more data points."

The last links only point to lower life expectancy in specific groups, not overall like this report posts.
A little bit different, but again, like I said in the last post that you ignored, this article does rely on correlation more than showing a defined causation relationship,, but your argument regarding obesity doesn't hold any weight either.
 

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You're one of the more amazing smart-dumb guys I've seen recently. The mental hoops you had to jump through to get that out of the data.

Seriously trying to say "the type of food you eat is irrelevant to how many calories of it you will consume because calories are calories and it won't affect contined intake or activity levels" or "people don't consume any more calories during a fast food meal than in other meals" or "fast food is just as good for your body as anything non-processed, well-rounded, whole food based meal eaten at home" or "calories are calories and how you intake them doesn't matter".

Or pretend that obesity isn't going to decrease life expectancy because being slightly overweight doesn't.

And pretend that the dropping of life expectancies across nearly every demographic group isn't going to proceed the dropping of the rate as a whole. No, let's just ignore all those drops that were already occurring before Obamacare, obviously the mere passage of the bill was enough to make people start dropping like flies immediately!

But no, the moving of meals outside the home, towards processed high calorie foods, is irrelevant.

This is obviously a waste of time.
 

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You want to see life expectancy shoot upward? Start regulating food intake so fat fukks stop eating themselves into a coma and make investments in drug abuse/mental illness treatment

My initial comment was just a way of mentioning obesity is the major driver of health problems in a way that highlights that it's a self-control issue, the only reason I went with your literal argument is because you went full retard with it.

Obesity has steadily increasing in adults and in older populations more susceptible to the catastrophic consequences of obesity.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhis/earlyrelease/earlyrelease201605_06.pdf

You're sure making a lot of inferences about my thoughts. I didn't even mention Obamacare, I made a commentary on how to improve life expectancy. Do you not think reducing obesity and drug abuse would have a beneficial impact on the life expectancy rate?

So people have a lifetime of bad health habits and the side effects of said bad habits is finally coming through. Do people really expect it's supposed to be magically cleared in 2 years because of Obamacare. :dahell:

It took you years to become obese and unhealthy. It will take you years to stabilize and become healthy. It doesn't happen over night. Sometimes you just run out if time.

Get healthy brehs.

Ya think? :jbhmm:




The Baby Boomer generation was the fattest, most obese, coach potato generation ever, growing up in an era of high pollution, sedintary office jobs, and high-fat, high-sugar, highly-processed junk food and fast food full of all sorts of chemicals. Of course they're keeling over from heart disease and cancers and everything else the weak modern lifestyle propagates.

Fast food isn't unhealthy, eating and not working off calories that you consumed is what causes obesity. Fast food existed before the 80s as well, 60s and 70s kids had fast food, so that claim doesn't hold up as well.
Anti-biotic and vaccine gains, the biggest vaccine was smallpox and the flu and both occured during the "greatest" generation, not the baby boomers. That said again you had higher growth rates for adult obesity and childhood obesity and yet continued growth in health care stats such as life expectancy and lowering death rate, so I would say there is no basis on those arguments as well.

Fast food isn't incredibly unhealthy, its food. There is nothing unsafe about white bread. There is nothing wrong with meat with high fat content. French fries aren't soaked in oil, the deep fry process doesn't soak the food with oil when done properly, it crisps up the outside and traps moisture inside what is being fried. Corn syrup isn't unhealthy, vegetable oil isn't unhealy. Sodas are high in calories, but they aren't inherently unhealthy either. Also on top of that, high diets aren't unhealthy unless you don't burn it off, and that is the choice of the person eating in how they regularly exercise. You could eat fresh fruit and vegetables and if you consume more calories than your burn off you are going to gain weight. Do it long enough and you will become obese. So right there off the bat you are coming with false food info that has no scientific basis....

You haven't posted any huge changes at all, also again, the rate of growth in obesity was greater in the 80s and 90s than it has been in the 00s and 10s yet its only now that we are experiencing a decline in health metrics after government subsidized insurance was implemented. It points to the fast food and obesity angle not providing causation or correlation to the life expectancy or death rate. You have yet to present anything to support your contention.

As for obesity and gaining wait, it is scienfically purely a caloric intake and burning issue, that is how your body sees it, there is no difference in calories from fast food, organic food, or etc. Its calories. No difference in how the body sees protein, how it breaks down glucose and sucrose, and etc. As for empty calories, eat a head full of lettuce that has almost no calories since lettuce is comprised mainly of water and tell me if those empty calories leave you unfilled?...

The rate that rose was largely adult obesity rate, adults, it did not correspond in the 60s (rate was rising) the 70s (rate was rising) with reduction in life expectancy or increase in death rate. we never saw that , instead we saw health metrics rise positively. As for your contention that obesity leads to death, scientifically there isn't much support for that

:snoop:


I just happened to be reading an article the other day, specifically on evidence-based, scientifically proven medicine, and what advice did it give for improving life expectancy? Oh, hmm, don't be obese and eat less processed food. What a surprise!


"The health problems that most commonly afflict the American public are largely driven by lifestyle habits—smoking, poor nutrition, and lack of physical activity, among others. In November, a team led by researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital pooled data from tens of thousands of people in four separate health studies from 1987 to 2008. They found that simple, moderate lifestyle changes dramatically reduced the risk of heart disease, the most prolific killer in the country, responsible for one in every four deaths. People deemed at high familial risk of heart disease cut their risk in half if they satisfied three of the following four criteria: didn’t smoke (even if they smoked in the past); weren’t obese (although they could be overweight); exercised once a week; ate more real food and less processed food. Fitting even two of those categories still substantially decreased risk. In August, a report issued by the International Agency for Research on Cancer concluded that obesity is now linked to an extraordinary variety of cancers, from thyroids and ovaries to livers and colons."


An Epidemic of Unnecessary Treatment

:francis:


Keep caping for obesity and processed food coli breh. :mjlol:
 

David_TheMan

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Ya think? :jbhmm:












:snoop:


I just happened to be reading an article the other day, specifically on evidence-based, scientifically proven medicine, and what advice did it give for improving life expectancy? Oh, hmm, don't be obese and eat less processed food. What a surprise!


"The health problems that most commonly afflict the American public are largely driven by lifestyle habits—smoking, poor nutrition, and lack of physical activity, among others. In November, a team led by researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital pooled data from tens of thousands of people in four separate health studies from 1987 to 2008. They found that simple, moderate lifestyle changes dramatically reduced the risk of heart disease, the most prolific killer in the country, responsible for one in every four deaths. People deemed at high familial risk of heart disease cut their risk in half if they satisfied three of the following four criteria: didn’t smoke (even if they smoked in the past); weren’t obese (although they could be overweight); exercised once a week; ate more real food and less processed food. Fitting even two of those categories still substantially decreased risk. In August, a report issued by the International Agency for Research on Cancer concluded that obesity is now linked to an extraordinary variety of cancers, from thyroids and ovaries to livers and colons."


An Epidemic of Unnecessary Treatment

:francis:


Keep caping for obesity and processed food coli breh. :mjlol:

You didn't present any scientific evidence to back your claim and neither did the article.
It would be great to actually scientifically distinguish "real" food from "less processed" food.
You know actual scientific criteria.
 
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