NYC public schools revamp Gifted & Talented, eliminate testing

dora_da_destroyer

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I think we all agree, but I think he's saying Gifted and Talented is racial segregation.
Given testing 4 yr olds vs identifying kids once they’re in 1st grade or whatnot tends to favor those with resources, I’d agree to an extent. But we tend to overlook the significant portion of Asian immigrant headed households who are low to moderate income who get their kids into these tracks, so there is something to say for it being cultural values around education that are holding black and brown kids back as well. But I forgot we’re not allowed to mention this on thecoli
 

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Is that so, Nazi?
:heh:

Anyway, that's my understanding of someone else's position. I'm of the opinion that even if gifted and talented classes segregate by race instead of ability in practice, the admissions process should be fixed. Not scrapped entirely. No one benefits by holding back the truly exceptional.
 

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I benefited from a gifted program that involved testing when I grew up in ATL but it was structured way differently: first testing wasn't until 3rd grade and second, slots for the gifted program were partly allocated by home school so that you got a diverse student body pulling out of heavily Black, White, etc. areas taking the top students from each. Lot of Black kids and most did well in life. I think the NYC model and NYC's competitiveness and wealth inequality are part of the issue. Why only one school for such a huge metro too? Couldn't they create a new school and open new spots?

But we tend to overlook the significant portion of Asian immigrant headed households who are low to moderate income who get their kids into these tracks, so there is something to say for it being cultural values around education that are holding black and brown kids back as well. But I forgot we’re not allowed to mention this on thecoli

This is important, but there is an element of being in the know too. I say this because I have the "in" track to a lot of the tutoring opportunities Asian kids have where we live. Why? I had my oldest son in Chinese language school weekly, at least pre COVID, (I lived in China and speak Chinese) and also have a good friend whose spouse is Indian. There are tutoring centers, groups, and inside information they use to get ahead. My son is at one of these tutoring centers and is one of the top scorers but we would never have known about it without a connection and despite my wife and I being very educated and education oriented, we would have had our kids behind.

You all may not know about this but what is real interesting is what is happening in China right now where the government has banned a lot of the private tutoring/education companies. Everyone portrays the NYC deal as Asians v. Blacks/Hispanics but in China this move was prompted by the same issue: well to do people using private education companies to gain an edge for their kids and hog opportunities.

This is in a country with the same ethic towards education. The Communist Party is worried such an accrual of educational (and later life) advantage by a small slice of the population is going to cause social stability issues. What they have done is 10X more draconian than NYC.
 

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Given testing 4 yr olds vs identifying kids once they’re in 1st grade or whatnot tends to favor those with resources, I’d agree to an extent. But we tend to overlook the significant portion of Asian immigrant headed households who are low to moderate income who get their kids into these tracks, so there is something to say for it being cultural values around education that are holding black and brown kids back as well. But I forgot we’re not allowed to mention this on thecoli
Be careful, you might get your post erased.
There is an industry of people who do nothing but produce research, charts, forums, etc about the achievement gap. And nearly every one of them tapdances around what you just mentioned. But then again, their goal isn't to reduce the gap, but to always have a job studying the issue.
 
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Gifted and talented programs are segregation and clearly saying the normal classes aren't good.
For good reason. Normal classes go at a snails pace, as they should, and it makes it damn near impossoble to stay engaged if you already know what you're doing and have the concept down. The issue is no one has a plan for accelerated students once they get past elementary school
 

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Gifted and talented programs are segregation and clearly saying the normal classes aren't good.
Segregation?
Are AP classes in high school segregation? Are accelerated tracks in college segregation?

This country has a history of REAL segregation. Codified and enforced. Always startles me to see that word applied so casually.
 

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For good reason. Normal classes go at a snails pace, as they should, and it makes it damn near impossoble to stay engaged if you already know what you're doing and have the concept down. The issue is no one has a plan for accelerated students once they get past elementary school
??

a lot of districts have magnet schools or academies which cater to the most academically inclined students. And in high school, there are generally so many levels of classes (algebra, trig, calc a/b, calc b/c, physics, chemistry, AP classes etc) or options to take college level work at a JC that you don’t really need a gifted program, they can take more advanced classes vs being in the multilevel learning environment of elementary
 
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??

a lot of districts have magnet schools or academies which cater to the most academically inclined students. And in high school, there are generally so many levels of classes (algebra, trig, calc a/b, calc b/c, physics, chemistry, AP classes etc) or options to take college level work at a JC that you don’t really need a gifted program, they can take more advanced classes vs being in the multilevel learning environment of elementary
Thats not the plan Im talking about. Once youre in the gifted program, depending on your district, you have to do a certain amount of seminars and other meeting during a grading period. Not sure if my post conveys it but I've gone through the gifted/accelerated program and always found it to be stupid. There's so much side bullshyt to the program that doesn't even touch academics, its a waste of time and resources. When I say there's no plan I'm referring to the shyt that doesn't relate to actual academics
 

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Parents rally at DOE to protest the decision

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Given testing 4 yr olds vs identifying kids once they’re in 1st grade or whatnot tends to favor those with resources, I’d agree to an extent. But we tend to overlook the significant portion of Asian immigrant headed households who are low to moderate income who get their kids into these tracks, so there is something to say for it being cultural values around education that are holding black and brown kids back as well. But I forgot we’re not allowed to mention this on thecoli

It's bullshyt to attribute that primarily to "cultural values around education", that's the same model minority BS used against Black communities all the time.

"Low-to-middle income" households from certain Asian immigrant communities do well because those are an extremely small and elite subset of their national population, mostly families that were either highly educated in their home nations, came to the USA via education visas, or are the rare highly entrepreneurial talents. The vast majority of disadvantaged poor in those nations ain't touching the USA, so trying to compare their most elite performers to the entire Black population, or especially Black folk in low-income communities, is bunk.

In the cases where Asians come to the USA via refugee status rather than high-skill visas and entrepreneurship, and thus the immigrant population is more representative of the entire nation (Laotians, Cambodians, Hmong, etc.), their academic and financial performance isn't any better than it is for Black folk.

Just look at India. They have a horrific education system, do poorly on every single measure of school performance and even basic IQ. Yet they are among the most elite in the USA, beating out nearly every other racial group. Where are those "cultural values" for education in their home country? Do Indians just magically change when they get to America? Hell no. It's that the 70% of Indian families in poverty with shyt educations can't dream of touching a US visa. Even the random Indian truck drivers and restaurant cooks in New York were part of the elite in their home countries and already have a huge head start in education and stability which they are then able to pass on to their children even if it didn't translate immediately into a high-paying US job for themselves.
 

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It's bullshyt to attribute that primarily to "cultural values around education", that's the same model minority BS used against Black communities all the time.

"Low-to-middle income" households from certain Asian immigrant communities do well because those are an extremely small and elite subset of their national population, mostly families that were either highly educated in their home nations, came to the USA via education visas, or are the rare highly entrepreneurial talents. The vast majority of disadvantaged poor in those nations ain't touching the USA, so trying to compare their most elite performers to the entire Black population, or especially Black folk in low-income communities, is bunk.

In the cases where Asians come to the USA via refugee status rather than high-skill visas and entrepreneurship, and thus the immigrant population is more representative of the entire nation (Laotians, Cambodians, Hmong, etc.), their academic and financial performance isn't any better than it is for Black folk.

Just look at India. They have a horrific education system, do poorly on every single measure of school performance and even basic IQ. Yet they are among the most elite in the USA, beating out nearly every other racial group. Where are those "cultural values" for education in their home country? Do Indians just magically change when they get to America? Hell no. It's that the 70% of Indian families in poverty with shyt educations can't dream of touching a US visa. Even the random Indian truck drivers and restaurant cooks in New York were part of the elite in their home countries and already have a huge head start in education and stability which they are then able to pass on to their children even if it didn't translate immediately into a high-paying US job for themselves.
Technically, can't the same things you're saying about those Asian "low to middle income" immigrants be said about their counterparts from other regions/countries of the world?
Why do those Asian immigrants outperform other immigrants academically?
 
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