No thread on Syria's chemical/gas attack massacre...

Jello Biafra

A true friend stabs you in the front
Supporter
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
46,184
Reputation
4,943
Daps
120,888
Reppin
Behind You
The "Assad might not have gassed his people" theory has officially hit the mainstream. Joe Scarborough of all people just tossed it out there that his sources in the intelligence community have told him it is not a slamdunk that Assad was the one who did the gas attack and that there are questions about who benefits from the use of chemical weapons more than Assad.
Its like I am in Bizarro world...Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean are all gung-ho to blow shyt up, Obama and the architects of the Iraq debacle are in agreement, Marco Rubio all of a sudden changes his stance on intervening in Syria and Joe Scarborough is introducing conspiracy theories on his TV show.
 

Kritic

Banned
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
8,937
Reputation
500
Daps
5,891
Reppin
NULL
The "Assad might not have gassed his people" theory has officially hit the mainstream. Joe Scarborough of all people just tossed it out there that his sources in the intelligence community have told him it is not a slamdunk that Assad was the one who did the gas attack and that there are questions about who benefits from the use of chemical weapons more than Assad.
Its like I am in Bizarro world...Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean are all gung-ho to blow shyt up, Obama and the architects of the Iraq debacle are in agreement, Marco Rubio all of a sudden changes his stance on intervening in Syria and Joe Scarborough is introducing conspiracy theories on his TV show.
rofl@conspiracy theories.
that joe guy i think i've seen his show once or twice. i think he came across as a nicca who thinks he has a backbone. well guess what joe.. you're part of the machine. you either go with the script or get off air cause there's someone else who'll take your place and sing that script.


i find it crazy how anyone who questions the establishment is called crazy and a conspiracy theorist.
 

Dyce25

Rookie
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
125
Reputation
0
Daps
67
Reppin
NULL
A bunch of Syrian citizens in the capitol Damascus were gassed on the 21st of August including lots of women and children. 'murrica assures us that the ruling Assad regime is responsible(eerily similar to the WMDs excuse that got us in Iraq), the Russian president Putin is extremely doubtful. Some say the Saudi's supplied rebels with the chemical weapons and they were used then to entice an international response. This is probably the biggest point being looked over, we know weapons were used but there's no clear idea of who used them. Besides Russia's only interests in the region, part of Putin's doubts comes the gas attack having happened just before a U.N. visit which would make no sense at all for someone who was winning at that point and could ill afford to win real support for the rebels.

Some of the rebel groups who's side we're fighting with in this conflict are terrorist organizations with links to AQ. Yesterday Sec. of State Kerry said the rebels weren't AQ and assured the congressional panel on this, so just before the G20 summit the Russian president called John Kerry a straight up liar. The British Parliament voted against British military intervention, this of course has 'murrica butthurt. Meanwhile, France says they only gon follow up if we throw the first punch. So as if this point the resolution for military intervention passed the Senate 10-7 and it's going to the House which is when shyt is gonna get realllllly interesting since a lot of them reps on both sides legit are against this intervention.

This is all while shyt is going down in Egypt, Libya is degenerating into a lawless terrorist state, and we're remote control bombing the shyt out of Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia. Imperialism's a bytch.

I don't understand why people get so confused by political workings, but this is incorrect. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved a full Senate vote on the topic of intervention in Syria, 10-7. That's all. That means that a resolution must be drafted, submitted, amended (if there are amendments the Senate wishes to make), and then voted on during a full session of 100 members; nothing passes the full Senate with a vote of 10-7, so that should have been a tip-off. If it is passed by the Senate, then the final version of the Senate's resolution will make its way to the House to be voted on again. The House has the option to provide amendments, as well, and then it is voted on. If it passes the House, then Obama will sign it, and the action will begin. Things like this take time and are part of a strict process. It seems that even people interested in politics sometimes forget or simply don't understand that process for some reason.
 

2Quik4UHoes

Why you had to go?
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
63,381
Reputation
18,450
Daps
235,840
Reppin
Norfeast groovin…
I don't understand why people get so confused by political workings, but this is incorrect. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved a full Senate vote on the topic of intervention in Syria, 10-7. That's all. That means that a resolution must be drafted, submitted, amended (if there are amendments the Senate wishes to make), and then voted on during a full session of 100 members; nothing passes the full Senate with a vote of 10-7, so that should have been a tip-off. If it is passed by the Senate, then the final version of the Senate's resolution will make its way to the House to be voted on again. The House has the option to provide amendments, as well, and then it is voted on. If it passes the House, then Obama will sign it, and the action will begin. Things like this take time and are part of a strict process. It seems that even people interested in politics sometimes forget or simply don't understand that process for some reason.

Thanks for clarifying.
 

Dyce25

Rookie
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
125
Reputation
0
Daps
67
Reppin
NULL
Thanks for clarifying.

Sorry if I came across as a bit dikkish. Lol. I didn't mean to, but sometimes the tone of my writing can come across that way (and I noticed by rereading that my last post could qualify). It doesn't seem like you took any offense, but I just wanted to apologize just in case anyway. It's hardly ever my intention to appear brash. You're welcome for the explanation, though.
 

2Quik4UHoes

Why you had to go?
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
63,381
Reputation
18,450
Daps
235,840
Reppin
Norfeast groovin…
Sorry if I came across as a bit dikkish. Lol. I didn't mean to, but sometimes the tone of my writing can come across that way (and I noticed by rereading that my last post could qualify). It doesn't seem like you took any offense, but I just wanted to apologize just in case anyway. It's hardly ever my intention to appear brash. You're welcome for the explanation, though.

Nah I ain't trippin, I could see how it would be perceived that way tho. I'm a true student so I'm not ashamed of any ignorance I may have or any holes in my logic that's how you grow and become better. Hell, it was even suspicious to me when I wrote it that the Senate voted 10-7 and that was that, didn't get all the info.
 

MoneyBags

Dapper Don Don Boss of Bosses Chief of Chiefs
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
3,664
Reputation
760
Daps
7,484
Reppin
East Side!
i don't know, I think the repubs like McCain want war so that they can flip this back on the Dems in 2016.
 

tru_m.a.c

IC veteran
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
31,332
Reputation
6,850
Daps
90,881
Reppin
Gaithersburg, MD via Queens/LI
The point is that it's not a "powder keg" at all. The only military ramifications from this will be in Syria itself.

*checks geographic location* pretty liberal use of the word "only" here

As I said, it depends on what one means when asking the question about Russian intervention. If the question is whether or not they'll strike us directly, then the answer is no. If the question is whether us and Russia will be fighting a proxy war through Syria (plus a renewed Cold War), then the answer is yes.

Thats not the question anyone is asking. The Russians have been helping the Syrians. The Americans have been helping the rebels. Nobody cares about Russian "intervention." The most important factor is the balance of power. A civil war that drags on and on and on is a perfect scenario for everyone. It focuses all extremist aggression on Syria thus relieving the pressure off of other governments/us having to look harder for people. Assad in power keeps Syria from focusing on Israel. Assad in power keeps the extremist from focusing on Israel.

Overall, the bigger international impacts of a unilateral decision to strike Syria would not manifest themselves immediately, though. And direct, open military confrontation between us and Russia (or even China) is not going to happen in our lifetimes* because of simple "mutually assured destruction." *Admittedly, technology might change that equation in the future, however.

That is our point. We're saying a military strike doesn't change the dynamics at all. The threat of military action was always on the table, and chemical weapons were still used. How does striking Assad over 90 days change his position on chemical use? If we know he'll use chemical weapons when he's winning, doesn't that mean he's twice as likely to use them when he starts losing? The point of this military intervention isn't to end the civil war, so why do it at all? According to the US, Assad is the devil reincarnate, but he's not evil enough to be removed from power? Hmmm why is that? Because an unstable country is more dangerous than a chemical weapons using tyrant (a harsh reality that the US will never publicly admit).

I keep saying this over and over again. How is it possible to attack Assad and NOT shift the balance of power in the war, while crippling his ability to deploy chemical weapons, and killing less than the 350-1500 Syrians civilians (the estimate of civilians killed during the chem attacks)?
 

Dyce25

Rookie
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
125
Reputation
0
Daps
67
Reppin
NULL
*checks geographic location* pretty liberal use of the word "only" here



Thats not the question anyone is asking. The Russians have been helping the Syrians. The Americans have been helping the rebels. Nobody cares about Russian "intervention." The most important factor is the balance of power. A civil war that drags on and on and on is a perfect scenario for everyone. It focuses all extremist aggression on Syria thus relieving the pressure off of other governments/us having to look harder for people. Assad in power keeps Syria from focusing on Israel. Assad in power keeps the extremist from focusing on Israel.



That is our point. We're saying a military strike doesn't change the dynamics at all. The threat of military action was always on the table, and chemical weapons were still used. How does striking Assad over 90 days change his position on chemical use? If we know he'll use chemical weapons when he's winning, doesn't that mean he's twice as likely to use them when he starts losing? The point of this military intervention isn't to end the civil war, so why do it at all? According to the US, Assad is the devil reincarnate, but he's not evil enough to be removed from power? Hmmm why is that? Because an unstable country is more dangerous than a chemical weapons using tyrant (a harsh reality that the US will never publicly admit).

I keep saying this over and over again. How is it possible to attack Assad and NOT shift the balance of power in the war, while crippling his ability to deploy chemical weapons, and killing less than the 350-1500 Syrians civilians (the estimate of civilians killed during the chem attacks)?


First, the term "only" isn't being used liberally. If military conflicts do extend outside Syria, those conflicts would be confined in limited spaces and wouldn't come close to threatening American shores. At most, small conflicts in the immediate surroundings of Syria may crop up. Still, it's very likely that most, if not all, military conflict related to this issue will remain in Syria itself, in my opinion. Refer to the third point to understand why I mentioned the conflict not reaching American shores.

Secondly, do you not remember our previous discussion about my calculations on Syria? I'm not in favor of military strikes.

Third, do you not remember how this current discussion began? I responded to a post made by Leasy, which you quoted and began debating. However, Leasy's post was in response to a question asked by Ghost305. My response to Leasy was made because I disagreed with Leasy's assessment, and I wanted to provide another answer to Ghost305's question. His question was: "[Do] you guys think [R]ussia is going to get involved should we attack Syria?" Again, that depends on what he means by Russia getting "involved," which I've been over. So, your response of, "That's not the question anyone is asking" is just not correct. In fact, that's the only question I was answering. I'm not sure how you got so confused, but there ya go.
 
Last edited:

Kritic

Banned
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
8,937
Reputation
500
Daps
5,891
Reppin
NULL
:dahell: this ain english class. this is politics. this is sohh. lighten up a little bit. use some smileys and sh1iit. i need pictures to visualize sh1t.


:usure:
 

Dyce25

Rookie
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
125
Reputation
0
Daps
67
Reppin
NULL
:dahell: this ain english class. this is politics. this is sohh. lighten up a little bit. use some smileys and sh1iit. i need pictures to visualize sh1t.

Lol. I actually was an English major before I switched. Honestly, it's just natural for me to write properly now; I made a habit of it from a young age.
 

Kritic

Banned
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
8,937
Reputation
500
Daps
5,891
Reppin
NULL
i'm just fuqqin with you. online im just easy. if you hear me talk (and see how i write) you'd be on some :dahell: too.
 

Kritic

Banned
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
8,937
Reputation
500
Daps
5,891
Reppin
NULL
i personally don't even think procedure and bureaucracy matters at this point. the cat's out the bag and they have to force it through. even if it takes to fabricate some terrorwrist attack to get their votes.
 
Top