No, Manufacturing jobs won't revive the economy
- Thread starter Dusty Bake Activate
- Start date
Nobody even attempts to read all the bs you post. I have trouble wrapping my mind around the efficacy of work you do with mentoring young adults.
seems like your line of irrational thinking could be causing more harm than good.No wonder America is sohh
at STEM subjects.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Hear me out, friend.
We both know that corporate responsibility is at an all time high.
Do you really want some Ivy League, hot shot, bureaucrat in D.C. and your state capital setting minimum wage and telling you what your time is worth? No! Lets let the free market decide. We know that, we can trust that! The free market is what made America a great country, the best country!
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
@ me being one of the few students in my classes who can speak "fluent" english...
ill take the higher prices on products if it translates into more money for the work force, thats a no brainer.
but obviously not if it only translates into higher pay for the high executives in the company AT THE EXPENSE of the work force.
our current arrangement obviously benefits the corporation, which inherently i dont have a problem with. the problem comes in when the benefits of the corporation come AT THE EXPENSE of the common good.
this was never a conversation about whats best for google or nike, this is about what's best for the COUNTRY. two totally different conversations.
what do you hear me saying? do you hear me saying drop everything and focus on manufacturing, putting all our eggs in the manufacturing basket so to speak?
thats not what im saying at all.
i am talking about simple economic balance, because right now the way we operate our systems of political economy we are driving the country into financial ruin.
as i said before, thats great for the company, but bad for the country. we gotta look at the big picture and see short term sacrifices for long term gain, not long term sacrifices for short term gain.
but even that being said the business model you described could be useful IN MODERATION, and be very beneficial for both the US and China in markets that cater to that kind of comparable advantage. but like you said, this business model is becoming the STANDARD for US companies, which is devastating to the US economy, as you can see.
yes, let's adapt, let's evolve. but let's also remember the fundamentals of a successful economy. 1) you have to produce 2) your economy needs balance. and right now we are severely mismanaging both of these key areas to the point that we have extreme poverty and unemployment, and a national debt we will eventually have no choice but to default on, among several other brewing financial crises.
Dusty Bake Activate
Fukk your corny debates
I am in awe of how you can type and talk so much and manage to say absolutely nothing in the process.
Vandelay
Life is absurd. Lean into it.
I hear you saying, continue you to do the same we've been doing for 150 years.
Whats ideal, and whats reality are 2 completely different ideas.
Whats ideal, and whats reality are 2 completely different ideas.
partly.
im saying do whats worked for hundreds of years (i.e. have a strong manufacturing base) because it's worked in dozens of different countries and is a proven economic strategy.
but we must evolve also. and so in current terms that means manufacturing products that are relevant for us today.
you guys keep implying that manufacturing is somehow an outdated practice, but the manufacturing is taking place, it's just not taking place within our borders as much as it needs to.
also the protectionism is taking place, but in general it's not happening in the right sectors of the economy, and in the sectors it is happening in the wrong people are being protected.
banks and big corporations are having lots of economic success in this system, while the country as a whole is on the brink of financial collapse.
again, i dont blame the corporations because they're doing what they're supposed to do, which is get money.
but it's the government's job to regulate the market in a way that is most beneficial for the country AS A WHOLE. and right now most regulating is benefiting only the corporations.
i feel like im saying the same thing over and over again and ya'll aren't getting it... but this is really basic stuff. we need to make the products we consume, period. but right now we are doing a lot of consuming, and not enough manufacturing of products.
Vandelay
Life is absurd. Lean into it.
If corporations are the big bad wolf...and i can agree that in a sense they are...empower people to be entrepreneurial and start their own business. 5, 10, 100 people can develop, market, and sell a product locally but manufacture it abroad...there's literally 1000s of companies doing this now, and theres room for more...
Car related accessories
Software and hardware for electronics
Clothing
Transportation
Food
Etc...i can name dozens of sectors, and dozens of businesses for each sector that someone can either start their own brand or piggyback on the wave of an up and coming brand to be a part of...niching brands are the wave of the future. You wont be a multi billion dollar company but you can be a multi million company and have the skills to move onto something else should that business collapse.
The problem nowadays is 2 fold...putting to much reliance in these multinational corporations to save you...and holding onto obselete jobs and skills as a means of income. The sooner people figure that out, the better off we'll all be.
i co-sign the entrepreneurship movement 1000%, we definitely need more of that in the community. cooperative economics has the power to bring us all up.
i agree with your second point as well, i would just add on the role the government has played in allowing all this fukkery to happen, and in some cases even AIDING in making fukkery happen.
we could fix all this shyt in a year if we the people got organized and put strategic pressure on politicians and had them change the way they create and enforce economic policy.
but anyways, i appreciate the dialogue good brotha.
Scustin Trillberlake
Banned
Time to bless this thread, with individuals working in the manufacturing sector:
Two American Families | FRONTLINE | PBS
Two American Families | FRONTLINE | PBS
From 2008:
What are the Top Manufacturing Countries? (with pictures)
"The world's top manufacturing country is the United States, and this has been the case since before World War II. In 2007, the United States' manufacturing output was $1.831 trillion US Dollars (USD). This is about 12% of the USA's entire gross domestic product (GDP), or $12,206 USD for every person in the 150 million-strong labor force. Still, the USA's output per capita is not the world's greatest — that honor goes to Japan.
Important goods manufactured in the United States include the following, in order of percentage of exports in 2007:
production machinery and equipment, 31.4%; industrial supplies, 27.5%; non-auto consumer goods, 12.7%; motor vehicles and parts, 10.5%;aircraft and parts, 7.6%; food, feed and beverages, 7.3%; and other, 3.0%.
In 2007, the top manufacturing countries besides the United States were as follows: China ($1,106 billion USD), Japan ($926 billion USD), Germany ($670 billion USD), Russian Federation ($362 billion USD), Italy ($345 billion USD), United Kingdom ($342 billion USD), France ($296 billion USD),South Korea ($241 billion USD), Canada ($218 billion USD), Spain ($208 billion USD), and Brazil ($206 billion USD).
There is also a general correlation between how much a country manufactures and its total GDP. Depending on the percentage of their total economy taken up by manufacturing, a country's economic and political leaders may wish to take steps to adjust accordingly. For instance, the USA has been losing substantial ground to China in recent decades, meaning that US political leaders have an interest in increasing the total percentage of the country's GDP dominated by manufacturing.
Of all the leading manufacturers, the one that is growing the fastest economically is China. China's GDP grew by 22.59% in 2007, which was among the greatest GDP growth out of any country, made all the more impressive by China's huge size, with over 1.1 billion people. The country's leaders wish to reclaim China's position as the world's #1 manufacturer by 2020, and have engaged in an ambitious industrialization program to do so. Because much of China is still unindustrialized, China has considerable room for improvement, while the United States is already completely industrialized. China was once before the world's leading manufacturer — back in 1830, the country was responsible for 30% of the global industrial output.
There is much debate among economists about the various measures of manufacturing output and what they mean. For instance, there is gross total output, the total of all value added to manufactured goods throughout the manufacturing process, the per capita manufacturing output, the manufacturing output as a percentage of the GDP, and other measurements.
-besides the comment that "the US is already completely industrialized" (i think that comment is misleading), this article is on point. now let's fast forward...
From 2013:
China Widens Lead as World’s Largest Manufacturer
According to the latest research from theUnited Nations, China has further outpaced its competitors in world manufacturing, generating $2.9 trillion in output annually versus $2.43 trillion from the U.S., the world’s second-largest manufacturing economy.
Over the last two years, China’s manufacturing sector has made strong gains, while the U.S. has been mired in economic and political doldrums.
“In 2011, China’s manufacturing output surged by 23 percent while manufacturing output in the U.S. only increased by 2.8 percent,” theAmerican Enterprise Institute explains. “That brought China’s manufacturing output last year to more than $2.9 trillion, which was almost half a trillion dollars (and 20 percent) more manufacturing output than the $2.43 trillion of manufacturing output that was produced in the U.S. last year.”
America’s trade gap with China also widened considerably over the same period. According to statistics from the Manufacturers Alliance for Productivity and Innovation (MAPI), the U.S. trade deficit with China rose by 8 percent to $498 billion in 2012, while the Chinese surplus increased 15 percent, to $755 billion.
MAPI officials point out that from 2009 to 2012, “the U.S. deficit rose by $172 billion, or 53 percent, while the Chinese surplus soared by $333 billion, or an extraordinary 79 percent.”
In addition to striking a blow to national pride, the comparatively slower growth in U.S. production versus Chinese manufacturing has also cost many jobs. MAPI found that the three-year increase in the U.S. trade deficit resulted in the loss of 700,000 to 1.4 million American manufacturing jobs, including 140,000 to 280,000 jobs in 2012 alone.
However, many experts consider the rapid growth in Chinese manufacturing to be unsustainable unless the country begins to reorient its economy toward more advanced processes and complex products.
The factors putting stress on China’s industrial economy include a downturn in overall productivity, which is a vital part of economic growth and depends on technological change and institutional efficiency. So while China might have produce a higher quantity of manufactured goods, the U.S. still leads in quality and advanced manufacturing, particularly aircraft and other specialized products.
Moreover, the costs of offshoring production are becoming increasingly onerous for U.S. companies. Given the insecurity of intellectual property in China and other factors, many businesses are discovering that it makes more sense to keep production capacity at home.
Last year, Manufacturing Trends and News concluded that “changes in the economic environment are making homeshoring more and more attractive, with a number of manufacturers actively moving their offshore operations back to the home turf.”
Instead of simply looking at cheaper labor costs, manufacturers now look at the “total cost of ownership,” or TCO. This relies on a comprehensive view of the manufacturing industry, taking into account the cost of quality, delivery, transportation, energy consumption, labor monitoring, carrying stock, freight, packaging, and all other aspects of production.
In addition, Chinese labor costs are rising an average 15 to 20 percent per year, compared to only 2 percent increases in the U.S.
Despite China’s accelerating growth, the U.S. continues to lead in top-end manufacturing and smart technologies. And if additive manufacturing, or 3-D printing, expands as forecast, America is likely to further solidify its position as the world’s leader in advanced production capabilities.
_______________________
I think these articles are important for a number of reasons. 1) it further confirms the direct correlation between manufacturing (producing goods) and economic prosperity, which has been pretty consistent for oh, say the past 2000 years or so.
but 2) it also shows how economies must evolve in the arena of manufacturing.
in terms of american productivity i think the article is spot on-we cant compete with other countries (especially china) in terms of quantity or diversity when it comes to manufacturing, they are built to manufacture in bulk and to manufacture cheap. but that also allows the US in the comparative advantage to dominate other countries in terms of quality and "specialization" in manufacturing, which in terms of political economy can be one of the most important factors in success. because at the end of the day producing a specialized product that other countries cannot produce at the same level of quality is always a plus. and on a basic level, no consumer has a problem paying an extra 20%-40% for a quality version of a given product if the product will perform better and last longer.
the fact the US has the lead on specialized manufacturing is a huge plus, and legislatively/policy wise need to continue to capitalize on our advantage.
but we also need to remain rooted in the economic fundamentals and make sure we are producing the basics domestically even if they only present a modest profit margin, because it's the bigger picture we need to look at. you can build a 300 story tower of gold if you want, but if it's built on a shaky foundation eventually it will fall.
thoughts?
What are the Top Manufacturing Countries? (with pictures)
"The world's top manufacturing country is the United States, and this has been the case since before World War II. In 2007, the United States' manufacturing output was $1.831 trillion US Dollars (USD). This is about 12% of the USA's entire gross domestic product (GDP), or $12,206 USD for every person in the 150 million-strong labor force. Still, the USA's output per capita is not the world's greatest — that honor goes to Japan.
Important goods manufactured in the United States include the following, in order of percentage of exports in 2007:
production machinery and equipment, 31.4%; industrial supplies, 27.5%; non-auto consumer goods, 12.7%; motor vehicles and parts, 10.5%;aircraft and parts, 7.6%; food, feed and beverages, 7.3%; and other, 3.0%.
In 2007, the top manufacturing countries besides the United States were as follows: China ($1,106 billion USD), Japan ($926 billion USD), Germany ($670 billion USD), Russian Federation ($362 billion USD), Italy ($345 billion USD), United Kingdom ($342 billion USD), France ($296 billion USD),South Korea ($241 billion USD), Canada ($218 billion USD), Spain ($208 billion USD), and Brazil ($206 billion USD).
There is also a general correlation between how much a country manufactures and its total GDP. Depending on the percentage of their total economy taken up by manufacturing, a country's economic and political leaders may wish to take steps to adjust accordingly. For instance, the USA has been losing substantial ground to China in recent decades, meaning that US political leaders have an interest in increasing the total percentage of the country's GDP dominated by manufacturing.
Of all the leading manufacturers, the one that is growing the fastest economically is China. China's GDP grew by 22.59% in 2007, which was among the greatest GDP growth out of any country, made all the more impressive by China's huge size, with over 1.1 billion people. The country's leaders wish to reclaim China's position as the world's #1 manufacturer by 2020, and have engaged in an ambitious industrialization program to do so. Because much of China is still unindustrialized, China has considerable room for improvement, while the United States is already completely industrialized. China was once before the world's leading manufacturer — back in 1830, the country was responsible for 30% of the global industrial output.
There is much debate among economists about the various measures of manufacturing output and what they mean. For instance, there is gross total output, the total of all value added to manufactured goods throughout the manufacturing process, the per capita manufacturing output, the manufacturing output as a percentage of the GDP, and other measurements.
-besides the comment that "the US is already completely industrialized" (i think that comment is misleading), this article is on point. now let's fast forward...
From 2013:
China Widens Lead as World’s Largest Manufacturer
According to the latest research from theUnited Nations, China has further outpaced its competitors in world manufacturing, generating $2.9 trillion in output annually versus $2.43 trillion from the U.S., the world’s second-largest manufacturing economy.
Over the last two years, China’s manufacturing sector has made strong gains, while the U.S. has been mired in economic and political doldrums.
“In 2011, China’s manufacturing output surged by 23 percent while manufacturing output in the U.S. only increased by 2.8 percent,” theAmerican Enterprise Institute explains. “That brought China’s manufacturing output last year to more than $2.9 trillion, which was almost half a trillion dollars (and 20 percent) more manufacturing output than the $2.43 trillion of manufacturing output that was produced in the U.S. last year.”
America’s trade gap with China also widened considerably over the same period. According to statistics from the Manufacturers Alliance for Productivity and Innovation (MAPI), the U.S. trade deficit with China rose by 8 percent to $498 billion in 2012, while the Chinese surplus increased 15 percent, to $755 billion.
MAPI officials point out that from 2009 to 2012, “the U.S. deficit rose by $172 billion, or 53 percent, while the Chinese surplus soared by $333 billion, or an extraordinary 79 percent.”
In addition to striking a blow to national pride, the comparatively slower growth in U.S. production versus Chinese manufacturing has also cost many jobs. MAPI found that the three-year increase in the U.S. trade deficit resulted in the loss of 700,000 to 1.4 million American manufacturing jobs, including 140,000 to 280,000 jobs in 2012 alone.
However, many experts consider the rapid growth in Chinese manufacturing to be unsustainable unless the country begins to reorient its economy toward more advanced processes and complex products.
The factors putting stress on China’s industrial economy include a downturn in overall productivity, which is a vital part of economic growth and depends on technological change and institutional efficiency. So while China might have produce a higher quantity of manufactured goods, the U.S. still leads in quality and advanced manufacturing, particularly aircraft and other specialized products.
Moreover, the costs of offshoring production are becoming increasingly onerous for U.S. companies. Given the insecurity of intellectual property in China and other factors, many businesses are discovering that it makes more sense to keep production capacity at home.
Last year, Manufacturing Trends and News concluded that “changes in the economic environment are making homeshoring more and more attractive, with a number of manufacturers actively moving their offshore operations back to the home turf.”
Instead of simply looking at cheaper labor costs, manufacturers now look at the “total cost of ownership,” or TCO. This relies on a comprehensive view of the manufacturing industry, taking into account the cost of quality, delivery, transportation, energy consumption, labor monitoring, carrying stock, freight, packaging, and all other aspects of production.
In addition, Chinese labor costs are rising an average 15 to 20 percent per year, compared to only 2 percent increases in the U.S.
Despite China’s accelerating growth, the U.S. continues to lead in top-end manufacturing and smart technologies. And if additive manufacturing, or 3-D printing, expands as forecast, America is likely to further solidify its position as the world’s leader in advanced production capabilities.
_______________________
I think these articles are important for a number of reasons. 1) it further confirms the direct correlation between manufacturing (producing goods) and economic prosperity, which has been pretty consistent for oh, say the past 2000 years or so.
but 2) it also shows how economies must evolve in the arena of manufacturing.
in terms of american productivity i think the article is spot on-we cant compete with other countries (especially china) in terms of quantity or diversity when it comes to manufacturing, they are built to manufacture in bulk and to manufacture cheap. but that also allows the US in the comparative advantage to dominate other countries in terms of quality and "specialization" in manufacturing, which in terms of political economy can be one of the most important factors in success. because at the end of the day producing a specialized product that other countries cannot produce at the same level of quality is always a plus. and on a basic level, no consumer has a problem paying an extra 20%-40% for a quality version of a given product if the product will perform better and last longer.
the fact the US has the lead on specialized manufacturing is a huge plus, and legislatively/policy wise need to continue to capitalize on our advantage.
but we also need to remain rooted in the economic fundamentals and make sure we are producing the basics domestically even if they only present a modest profit margin, because it's the bigger picture we need to look at. you can build a 300 story tower of gold if you want, but if it's built on a shaky foundation eventually it will fall.
thoughts?