Nikki Haley out here engaging in anti black racism

Nkrumah Was Right

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lol was he th politician in charge of the state of GA.
Was he the senator, representative, governor?
If not really means nothing.

Anecdotes dont cover much.
No different than again today if I got a billionaire and he wroete letters about how he supported the Afghanistan invasion because they were going to bring freedom and get bin ladin.
He could earnestly beleive that, doesn't make the afghanistan invasion about freedom or getting bin ladin for 9/11.

So I will say again, if the civil war was about the US ending slavary, the corwin amendment would not have been introduced and would not have had the non slave holding state support it did, if the war had been about slavary. That amendment alone tells you that. Why would the US trying to fight a war against slavary literally authorize private slavary forever, nevr able to be removed, if the southern statews would come back and just vote yes for it.
Why would the southern states if the issue was just slavary not come back and protect slavary for ever in the US if the issue was slavary?

The answe ris clear, the war wasn't really about slavary.

I think you’re not understanding a few fundamental premises/contextual things. Assuming you’re arguing in good faith, I’ll add:

  • The Republican Party was formed, in part, to limit the expansion of slavery to western territories of the United States and preserve the West for white, free labour.
  • Southerners understood this to be attempt to strangle slavery. If the expansion of slavery to massive new western territories was limited, it would ring the death knell and the end of ‘Slave Power’ (the democratic stranglehold that slave owners and their northern allies in the Democratic Party had over American politics) Slave Power - Wikipedia
  • The election of Abraham Lincoln, a Republican, in 1860 was a signal to slave owning elites across the South that the Republicans could forge electoral majorities that could defeat Slave Power. If they didn’t secede from the United States, the Republicans and millions of white immigrants from Europe who would go to the western territories would outnumber them greater than 4:1 which existed by 1860.
  • Alex Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy: “Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science.”
  • South Carolina secession declaration: “A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery.” Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
Let me know if you want more information.
 

The Fade

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lol was he th politician in charge of the state of GA.
Was he the senator, representative, governor?
If not really means nothing.

Anecdotes dont cover much.
No different than again today if I got a billionaire and he wroete letters about how he supported the Afghanistan invasion because they were going to bring freedom and get bin ladin.
He could earnestly beleive that, doesn't make the afghanistan invasion about freedom or getting bin ladin for 9/11.

So I will say again, if the civil war was about the US ending slavary, the corwin amendment would not have been introduced and would not have had the non slave holding state support it did, if the war had been about slavary. That amendment alone tells you that. Why would the US trying to fight a war against slavary literally authorize private slavary forever, nevr able to be removed, if the southern statews would come back and just vote yes for it.
Why would the southern states if the issue was just slavary not come back and protect slavary for ever in the US if the issue was slavary?

The answe ris clear, the war wasn't really about slavary.
Dude you basically said primary sources don’t matter. Primary sources are how you interpret history at an accurate level. There is a reason why they make you include as much of them as you when you do a thesis. Letters matter because while you can find one letter saying one thing you can find one that says another and line it up with actions lmaooo
You can go in the congressional globe right now and they have the arguments in Congress word for word documented. We have Benjamin French’s journal and countless others. It all points to being about slavery
 
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invalid

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lol was he th politician in charge of the state of GA.
Was he the senator, representative, governor?
If not really means nothing.

Who do you think is setting the conservative agenda? What do you think the Koch Brothers are doing after founding the Cato Institute or the Coors Family after founding the Heritage Foundation? Who do you think are funding these politicians? Those are the folks that are in charge, goofy.

And for the record, his son was a Confederate Governor of Georgia, whose campaign he funded.


Anecdotes dont cover much.
No different than again today if I got a billionaire and he wroete letters about how he supported the Afghanistan invasion because they were going to bring freedom and get bin ladin.
He could earnestly beleive that, doesn't make the afghanistan invasion about freedom or getting bin ladin for 9/11.

So I will say again, if the civil war was about the US ending slavary, the corwin amendment would not have been introduced and would not have had the non slave holding state support it did, if the war had been about slavary. That amendment alone tells you that. Why would the US trying to fight a war against slavary literally authorize private slavary forever, nevr able to be removed, if the southern statews would come back and just vote yes for it.
Why would the southern states if the issue was just slavary not come back and protect slavary for ever in the US if the issue was slavary?

The answe ris clear, the war wasn't really about slavary.

You didn't read anything I posted at all.

The answer is also clear, the amendment is proof the war wasn't about states rights seeing that it was giving southern states autonomy over their own domestic affairs. Why didn't they accept it if that was the Confederate cause?
 

David_TheMan

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I think you’re not understanding a few fundamental premises/contextual things. Assuming you’re arguing in good faith, I’ll add:

  • The Republican Party was formed, in part, to limit the expansion of slavery to western territories of the United States and preserve the West for white, free labour.
  • Southerners understood this to be attempt to strangle slavery. If the expansion of slavery to massive new western territories was limited, it would ring the death knell and the end of ‘Slave Power’ (the democratic stranglehold that slave owners and their northern allies in the Democratic Party had over American politics)
  • The election of Abraham Lincoln, a Republican, in 1860 was a signal to slave owning elites across the South that the Republicans could forge electoral majorities that could defeat Slave Power. If they didn’t secede from the United States, the Republicans and millions of white immigrants from Europe who would go to the western territories would outnumber them greater than 4:1 which existed by 1860.
  • Alex Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy: “Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science.”
  • South Carolina secession declaration: “A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery.”
Let me know if you want more information.
GOP was anti slavary party.
It was also a big government party descendant from the Whig party and at the time the big business corporate party and big government, whereas Democrat party at the time was the small limited government party that was classically liberal.

The southern states literally had almost rebelled over the tarrif of abominations as they were called in 1828, and Jackson was a democrat president who didn't even support them.
You look at the events, the southern states did not want tarrifs as they relied economically on european imports, whereas the northern states used them to boost their own industrial base. So you had the internal conflict.

Tarrif of abominations pushed the tarriffs to 38% and the southern states refused to pay and literally drafted a letter of secession that they didn't deliver. Jackson struck first sent the US army down and initiated a compromise. This was the Nullification crisis there was legitimately almost a open civil war, with the same states, led by South Carolina, again.

Lincoln ran on a open platform of reinstating the tarriffs that almost caused a War with Jackson a Democrat president. This is important, he did not run on a platform of ending slavary, his big platform was restoration of the tariffs. This is what caused lincoln to be removed by some southern states from the ballot. Thats how contentious this was.

Then what happens, Lincoln gets in office and raises the tariffs. The southern states that already were itching to leave and mad about the tariffs before hand that they were about to leave the union when a Democratic president that was friendly to them was in office and actively working to reduce the tariffs, had it and left. South Carolina kicks off the war again, at Ft. Sumter, a tariff collection site and things begin again and escalate even further.

Again after the southern states leave what is issued by the US government, the Corwin Amendment, stating that slavery will continue in the US unbothered in perpetuity of the US's existance.

That alone tells me and is supported by history and documented that the civil war was not about slavary, no more than Vietnam was about saving the south vietnamese democracy, Desert Storm was about saving Kuwait, OEF wasn't about 9/11, Afghanistan wasn't about bin ladin, and etc.

Thats my stance supported by history.
 

David_TheMan

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Who do you think is setting the conservative agenda? What do you think the Koch Brothers are doing after founding the Cato Institute or the Coors Family after founding the Heritage Foundation? Who do you think are funding these politicians? Those are the folks that are in charge, goofy.

And for the record, his son was a Confederate Governor of Georgia, whose campaign he funded.




You didn't read anything I posted at all.

The answer is also clear, the amendment is proof the war wasn't about states rights seeing that it was giving southern states autonomy over their own domestic affairs. Why didn't they accept it if that was the Confederate cause?
confederate governor isn't the same as the people who made the decision to leave in the first place and you haven't provided that.
I read what you posted, its a personal annecdote for a person who wasn't making the deicision.s
 

Nkrumah Was Right

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GOP was anti slavary party.
It was also a big government party descendant from the Whig party and at the time the big business corporate party and big government, whereas Democrat party at the time was the small limited government party that was classically liberal.

The southern states literally had almost rebelled over the tarrif of abominations as they were called in 1828, and Jackson was a democrat president who didn't even support them.
You look at the events, the southern states did not want tarrifs as they relied economically on european imports, whereas the northern states used them to boost their own industrial base. So you had the internal conflict.

Tarrif of abominations pushed the tarriffs to 38% and the southern states refused to pay and literally drafted a letter of secession that they didn't deliver. Jackson struck first sent the US army down and initiated a compromise. This was the Nullification crisis there was legitimately almost a open civil war, with the same states, led by South Carolina, again.

Lincoln ran on a open platform of reinstating the tarriffs that almost caused a War with Jackson a Democrat president. This is important, he did not run on a platform of ending slavary, his big platform was restoration of the tariffs. This is what caused lincoln to be removed by some southern states from the ballot. Thats how contentious this was.

Then what happens, Lincoln gets in office and raises the tariffs. The southern states that already were itching to leave and mad about the tariffs before hand that they were about to leave the union when a Democratic president that was friendly to them was in office and actively working to reduce the tariffs, had it and left. South Carolina kicks off the war again, at Ft. Sumter, a tariff collection site and things begin again and escalate even further.

Again after the southern states leave what is issued by the US government, the Corwin Amendment, stating that slavery will continue in the US unbothered in perpetuity of the US's existance.

That alone tells me and is supported by history and documented that the civil war was not about slavary, no more than Vietnam was about saving the south vietnamese democracy, Desert Storm was about saving Kuwait, OEF wasn't about 9/11, Afghanistan wasn't about bin ladin, and etc.

Thats my stance supported by history.

Strange to describe the 19th century as ‘classically liberal’ when they supported the Supreme Court’s decision in Dred Scott and wanted to catch fugitive slaves, even in free states.

Also this claim of yours is just simply not true: “Lincoln ran on a open platform of reinstating the tarriffs that almost caused a War with Jackson a Democrat president.”

Andrew Jackson died in 1845. Abraham Lincoln joined Congress in 1847.

:mjgrin:


Do you have any evidence (ex. primary historical documents) to support your claim that southern states seceded largely on the basis of tariffs?

Bearing in mind your position is not supported by the majority of US civil war scholars who publish peer reviewed papers on the civil war?
 

invalid

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Lincoln ran on a open platform of reinstating the tarriffs that almost caused a War with Jackson a Democrat president. This is important, he did not run on a platform of ending slavary, his big platform was restoration of the tariffs. This is what caused lincoln to be removed by some southern states from the ballot. Thats how contentious this was.

:mjlol:

Here's a primary source for you.

001r.jpg



They basically ran on black lives matter, open borders, and the 1860 equivalent of the green new deal.

10 out of 17 platform points was concerning slavery.
 

David_TheMan

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Strange to describe the 19th century as ‘classically liberal’ when they supported the Supreme Court’s decision in Dred Scott and wanted to catch fugitive slaves, even in free states.

Also this claim of yours is just simply not true: “Lincoln ran on a open platform of reinstating the tarriffs that almost caused a War with Jackson a Democrat president.”

Andrew Jackson died in 1845. Abraham Lincoln joined Congress in 1847.

:mjgrin:

Do you have any evidence (ex. primary historical documents) to support your claim that southern states seceded largely on the basis of tariffs?

Bearing in mind your position is not supported by the majority of US civil war scholars who publish peer reviewed papers on the civil war?
The democratic party was the classically liberal party. Gop was descendant of the whig big government party.

I'm using modern terminology. To discuss the concepts.

Jackson's death is irrelevant, to the fact that Lincoln ran on raising the tarrifa that literally almost caused a southern war of secession with a southern friendly president. Nullification crisis is documented.

I literally laid out the historical journey of how I maid this conclusion.
 

invalid

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First it was...

lol was he th politician in charge of the state of GA.
Was he the senator, representative, governor?

Now it's.....

confederate governor isn't the same as the people who made the decision

Welp. :francis:

its a personal annecdote for a person who wasn't making the deicision.s

No, he was one of the persons that influenced the decision. He put his son-in-law, the Confederate Governor in power. He funded the Georgia Confederate Army. He funded half of the planters in the northern half of Georgia.

And at the end of the war, he was the poorest man in Georgia.

You're not being serious. I see that now.
 

David_TheMan

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David_TheMan

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First it was...



Now it's.....



Welp. :francis:



No, he was the person that influenced the decision. He put his son-in-law, the Confederate Governor in power. He funded the Georgia Confederate Army. He funded half of the planters in the northern half of Georgia.

And at the end of the war, he was the poorest man in Georgia.

You're not being serious. I see that now.
A governor after the separation isn't hitting what I asked. That's after the fact and on top of that it's not the man you cute but his son.
 

invalid

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Lol, nice if slavery was the issue why didn't they return to the open invitation to vote on the corwin amendment.

If "states rights" was the issue, why didn't the confederates accept? :mjgrin:

No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.[2][3]
 
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