New Obama Super PAC Ad: Mitt Romney killed a steelworker's wife

[Dusty Bake Activate]

So basically he saod "they do it too" and that is your idea of blowing my argument away? And what is there to blow away about my argument anyway? All I did was point out the facts of the situation that were completely eliminated form the ad. The only purpose of that ad is to basically say Romney killed that guy's wife. That is all that anyone will take away from that spot. How is linking a candidate to a woman's death anywhere near the same as distorting a portion of policy? Or even to be considered a "bit of a stretch"?
Here is how you should look at this: if the roles were reversed and Romney put out an ad from someone intimating that a decision the President made is directly responsible for that person's spouse dying would you say "well thats just politics" and it's not that bad?

Just watched the ad and it's totally fair. I'm not sure what the problem with it is. He didn't say "Mitt Romney killed my wife." He said he doesn't think Mitt Romney understands how the actions taken at Bain affects peoples' lives and that them saddling the steel company with debt, getting their cut and closing it down which set in motion a chain of events that led to his wife's death. You said she didn't get diagnosed until later. Dude in the ad said she had been sick for a while and tried to hide it because they couldn't afford and by time it got diagnosed it was stage 4.

So I don't see what the big problem with it is. It's a hard-hitting negative ad, but it basically highlights how the vulture capitalism done at Bain leads to destruction of peoples' lives and how if they never shut down the steel plant, his wife would have had continuous good health insurance, she probably wouldn't have died.

I don't know why you're talking about how if the roles were reversed would it be fair because Obama didn't run a private equity company that took over other companies, saddled them with debt, made a profit and shut them down. If he did, it would be fair game.

The point Cenk Uygur was making and I'm making is you're being wholly disingenuous. The Republican put out ads, articles, and Romney surrogates are out lying about Obama literally every fukking day. Every time they open their mouths they're making up some shyt about how he's responsible for the debt and the deficit and how the Affordable Care Act is going to add trillions more to the deficit and how they stimulus didn't create any jobs. Some dumb Repub bytch just equated Obama to Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Zedong the other day and no one even said about it. If a Dem said it about Romney would be front page news on every network and you would see CNN talking about it all day to try and prove they're fair. But we set the bar lower for Republicans because they lie so much it's just expected of them. They have retarded kid standards.

You seem to be silent on that, but when this ad comes out which I would say is fair game and does not tell a lie, but maybe stretches the degree of responsibility that could be laid at Romney's feet, you seem to be all outraged by it. It seems you're just trying to play contrarian and prove that you're nonpartisan through selective highlighting and outrage.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

It cracks me up just how undisciplined the Romney campaign is from top to bottom. I have never seen people make so many unforced errors.
However don't think this kills him.
The Republicans may not love Mitt but they absolutley loathe Obama and I think they are going to be so galvanized to vote against Obama that short of Mitt sucking a guys dikk on live TV nothing is going to keep them from coming out in force in November.

You are delusional if still think Romney has a chance...maybe not delusional, just not really in tune with the electorate. You'll see soon though. November's getting near.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

The best part of this election will be ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that money people donated to Romney. Those donors are gonna be so hurt

 

[Jello Biafra]

You are delusional if still think Romney has a chance...maybe not delusional, just not really in tune with the electorate. You'll see soon though. November's getting near.

I don't see it being the one-sided affair you do just because the Repubs are energized this election despite who their candidate is. I think most Republican voters consider Romney irrelevant, they are on a mission to "get their country back".

 

[Jello Biafra]

Just watched the ad and it's totally fair. I'm not sure what the problem with it is. He didn't say "Mitt Romney killed my wife." He said he doesn't think Mitt Romney understands how the actions taken at Bain affects peoples' lives and that them saddling the steel company with debt, getting their cut and closing it down which set in motion a chain of events that led to his wife's death. You said she didn't get diagnosed until later. Dude in the ad said she had been sick for a while and tried to hide it because they couldn't afford and by time it got diagnosed it was stage 4.

So I don't see what the big problem with it is. It's a hard-hitting negative ad, but it basically highlights how the vulture capitalism done at Bain leads to destruction of peoples' lives and how if they never shut down the steel plant, his wife would have had continuous good health insurance, she probably wouldn't have died.

I don't know why you're talking about how if the roles were reversed would it be fair because Obama didn't run a private equity company that took over other companies, saddled them with debt, made a profit and shut them down. If he did, it would be fair game.

The point Cenk Uygur was making and I'm making is you're being wholly disingenuous. The Republican put out ads, articles, and Romney surrogates are out lying about Obama literally every fukking day. Every time they open their mouths they're making up some shyt about how he's responsible for the debt and the deficit and how the Affordable Care Act is going to add trillions more to the deficit and how they stimulus didn't create any jobs. Some dumb Repub bytch just equated Obama to Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Zedong the other day and no one even said about it. If a Dem said it about Romney would be front page news on every network and you would see CNN talking about it all day to try and prove they're fair. But we set the bar lower for Republicans because they lie so much it's just expected of them. They have retarded kid standards.

You seem to be silent on that, but when this ad comes out which I would say is fair game and does not tell a lie, but maybe stretches the degree of responsibility that could be laid at Romney's feet, you seem to be all outraged by it. It seems you're just trying to play contrarian and prove that you're nonpartisan through selective highlighting and outrage.

I readily admit (and have admitted so previously) I am selective on things here because this forum is overrun with dudes strapping on capes to play hero for Obama. Since I like posting about politics here I sometimes decide to take the contrarian view just to prevent this spot from being an echo chamber.
That being said I am not being outraged for outrage's sake on this one and you are being the disingenuous one if you don't admit to the purpose of this ad which is to basically say Romney is complicit in this guy's wife's death. It is a cheap shot ad and its OK to admit it even when it is an ad for your side.
I do call bullshyt on you and Uyger's assertion that there is some unlevel playing field when it comes to thse two campaigns. They both play gotcha with every word that is uttered by the other side regardless of how innocuous the statement and the media jumps right on the bandwagon gleefully.
The desire to focus on dumb "he said, she said" nonsense is why almost no time in this campaign is spent on substantive issues.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I readily admit (and have admitted so previously) I am selective on things here because this forum is overrun with dudes strapping on capes to play hero for Obama. Since I like posting about politics here I sometimes decide to take the contrarian view just to prevent this spot from being an echo chamber.

Well at least you admit you're not objective and you have an agenda. I don't really see your point in all this. Its seems you've turned into that guy mamba. Like him, at first you were dissing Obama for not being progressive enough which I think rings true, now you're always defending and flirting with cheerleading for Romney, which makes no sense for a supposed progressive.

That being said I am not being outraged for outrage's sake on this one and you are being the disingenuous one if you don't admit to the purpose of this ad which is to basically say Romney is complicit in this guy's wife's death. It is a cheap shot ad and its OK to admit it even when it is an ad for your side.

I don't deny that the ad is saying Romney is complicit in her death. I'm saying it's true. Bain Capital, headed by Romney is a complicit in her death to some extent.

It's a good ad and a fair ad. It gets to the core of what companies like Bain Capital are doing and giving a real world example of the effects of when a private equity company takes over a business, extracts money, then shuts it down. It ties those decisions and actions to a real person's life and the struggles he faced as a result of it. Real shyt. Not some stupid shyt like a guy went to a church where the preacher said goddamn America.

I do call bullshyt on you and Uyger's assertion that there is some unlevel playing field when it comes to thse two campaigns. They both play gotcha with every word that is uttered by the other side regardless of how innocuous the statement and the media jumps right on the bandwagon gleefully.
The desire to focus on dumb "he said, she said" nonsense is why almost no time in this campaign is spent on substantive issues.

I'm not talking about "gotcha" journalism or "he said she said." I'm talking about the Romney campaign, its surrogates, and the GOP lying about Obama literally every single day and it being pretty much ignored outside of left-wing opinion shows because at this point it's like Repubs are just expected to lie. We've grown numb to it.

But when Obama makes an ad like this (which isn't even a lie), not only the Repubs spaz out, but it becomes a huge dust-up even in the "nonpartisan" areas of the media. And you, playing the nonpartisan role are going off about this, and it seems pretty disingenuous because you could just browse any political website and see far bigger distortions from GOP folks every day.

Remember when dikk Durbin said something about Abu Ghraib being the U.S. opening back up Soviet gulags and the entire media had a collective seizure for like a week, so much so that Durbin had to give a public apology on the Senate floor? Well Republican elected officials are now comparing Obama to Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot about and average of 2 or 3 times a week. No one says anything. It's like Dems are expected to act like adults and reprimanded harshly when they maybe go over the line, but Republicans are treated like retards so they say the most outrageous and disgusting things with regularity and it's like they're just Republicans being Republicans and having fun out there It's bullshyt.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I don't see it being the one-sided affair you do just because the Repubs are energized this election despite who their candidate is. I think most Republican voters consider Romney irrelevant, they are on a mission to "get their country back".

You're not accurately assessing a presidential election. The stuff about the Repubs being energized is irrelevant. The Dems were pretty damn energized too in 04. How did that work out?

Republicans are always going to vote Republicans and Democrats are always going to vote for Democrats nowadays, and they're each only like 30-35% of registered voters. You win by getting independent voters and getting them to trust that you're the guy to run the country, not just say the other guy sucks. Romney has not and cannot define himself in a positive way and his negatives are high. That's why Obama is putting him in the figure four leglock right now despite a shytty economy and an upside-down approval rating.

And again, the math does not add up. Look at this and tell me a reasonable way in which Romney gets to 270.

RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map

This election was over before it started. Romney is an awful candidate and nobody in the current crop of big name Republicans has a chance to be president. They better put all their hope in Chris Christie in 2016 because that's the only guy in that party I see being able to win a presidential election. Charlie Crist was too, but they kicked him out of the party for hugging Obama.

 

[Piff Perkins]

hey boys and girls, remember when back in the primaries when Romney factually argued he had nothing to do with super PAC ads and couldn't control what they said?

I don't like Citizen's United/PAC money but best believe I'm laughing my ass off at these cacs. Obama is getting outspent and outraised yet still ethering these fools.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

[/IMG]

 

[Jello Biafra]

You're not accurately assessing a presidential election. The stuff about the Repubs being energized is irrelevant. The Dems were pretty damn energized too in 04. How did that work out?

Republicans are always going to vote Republicans and Democrats are always going to vote for Democrats nowadays, and they're each only like 30-35% of registered voters. You win by getting independent voters and getting them to trust that you're the guy to run the country, not just say the other guy sucks. Romney has not and cannot define himself in a positive way and his negatives are high. That's why Obama is putting him in the figure four leglock right now despite a shytty economy and an upside-down approval rating.

And again, the math does not add up. Look at this and tell me a reasonable way in which Romney gets to 270.

RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map

This election was over before it started. Romney is an awful candidate and nobody in the current crop of big name Republicans has a chance to be president. They better put all their hope in Chris Christie in 2016 because that's the only guy in that party I see being able to win a presidential election. Charlie Crist was too, but they kicked him out of the party for hugging Obama.

I tend to think you are putting too much stock in that electoral map from RCP; things are likely to be more fluid in some of those lean Obama states just because of the bad economic numbers the closer we get to the election. Take PA for example...the unemployment rate has been rising steadily here since taking a momentary dip from last year's high. And the independent vote is still a question mark for both guys as far as I'm concerned because a true picture of where that voter is leaning won't be evident until after the conventions at least.

And while I agree that Romney is a shytty candidate I still don't think that will stop Repubs from coming out in force and based on the economic numbers I still say he has a shot with the independents and undecideds.

I think this will be a close election and all the early polling data in the world won't change that opinion.

Oh, and Charlie Crist hugging Obama isn't why he was punted by the GOP...the fact that it was supposedly a widely known secret that dude was gay was why he lost his spot as the brightest rising star in the party.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I tend to think you are putting too much stock in that electoral map from RCP; things are likely to be more fluid in some of those lean Obama states just because of the bad economic numbers the closer we get to the election. Take PA for example...the unemployment rate has been rising steadily here since taking a momentary dip from last year's high. And the independent vote is still a question mark for both guys as far as I'm concerned because a true picture of where that voter is leaning won't be evident until after the conventions at least.

And while I agree that Romney is a shytty candidate I still don't think that will stop Repubs from coming out in force and based on the economic numbers I still say he has a shot with the independents and undecideds.

I think this will be a close election and all the early polling data in the world won't change that opinion.

I'm not putting too much stock in the RCP map. It averages all the polls state-by-state so it's a solid indicator, as it was in 2008. Study the map and you'll see that for Romney to get to 270, it would take some radical, astronomic shift in order for him to almost run the table in all the swing states, which is what it would take for him to win. I could tell he won't win with my eyes closed not even looking at polls, though. He's a shytty candidate, his negative are high, his positives are low, he can't get the people to trust him and he will probably lose by over 100 electoral votes.

Oh, and Charlie Crist hugging Obama isn't why he was punted by the GOP...the fact that it was supposedly a widely known secret that dude was gay was why he lost his spot as the brightest rising star in the party.

No, you are wrong. I live in FL and follow the politics of the state closely. It is a known fact that Crist was DOA because of him hugging Obama on camera and supporting the stimulus in a joint appearance. The gay stuff has been around for years, it was nothing new. He got re-elected with the gay rumors in full buzz. A guy asked him "Are you a homo?" on the radio and he said no and it got tons of media coverage and he still won. It was hilarious. If he was a two-term Governor with the gay rumor hanging over his head, there's no reason he couldn't have been a Senator with it and he would've if they didn't primary him.

When he hugged Obama and showed solidarity with him, he was DOA with Repubs. They had a huge collective nuclear meltdown and were calling him a Judas and every insulting name in the book. And he was the most obvious target of a tea party primary which they did with Rubio. He was already a moderate Republicans that said fukk you to his party and the corporations that own them several times and was considered the #1 RINO. Standing tall with Obama was the final straw. Notice no other Repub has appeared with Obama since.

 

[The Real]

[/IMG]

Seriously, though, the attacks against this ad have been weak. They're all bad faith attempts to sever any connection between higher-level corporate maneuvers and individual suffering, which is as dishonest as it is ineffective. By their logic, Obama should be absolved of many of the charges they level at him with even weaker causal links.

 

[AV Dicey]

The best part about it is that the ad has not even aired and its getting this much pub, meanwhile Romney campaign spending money releasing ads bashing it. The whole kerfuffle will be forgoten by next week, OFA has saved a bunch of money, Romney's unfavourables rising even higher. All this talk about repubs being energized is a bunch of malarkey since there are more registered dems. Am pretty sure repubs were very energized in 08, taking into account black man with islamic name + the great rabble rouser Palin yet they still lost, now milquetoast is gonna rally them? 2010 was the okey doke got them all gassed up, yeah right.

 

[KingpinOG]

Cenk Uygur did a good job of blowing away Jello Biafra's false equivalency on the Tuesday show. I can't find a link for it now.

He talked about how Republicans completely make up shyt literally every single day...a 24/7 lie operation and how we don't even pay attention to it anymore because they lie so much. And how every single Romney ad contains factual distortions and lies. We just accept that the GOP will lie...we've grown numb to it. Then whenever a Dem comes with an ad that stretches the truth or embellishes that isn't even near the outright falsehood of the daily Republican lies, people get bent out of shape because they want to try and prove that they're not partisan like Jello Biafra is doing now. And how that just feeds into the distorted false equivalency of "well both sides do it," ignoring that lying and distorting to extreme extents and doing it daily is the normative standard of operations for Repubs and ads like this, which isn't even a lie--just a bit of a stretch in terms of placing blame on Romney--are outliers.

Ahhh yes. Those evil Republicans constantly lie but the saintly Democrats would never do such a thing. Democrats don't lie, they just occassionally bend the truth.



Get the fukk out of here you idiot. Did you ever consider the fact that maybe you are unaware of all the Democrats' lies because you live in a fukking bubble? Do you really expect to be fully informed about the world when you get all your information from Cenk Ugyur, Bill Maher, and those clowns from Comedy Central? Can you really be fully informed when you retreat to internet blogs and message boards where everyone agrees with you in order to have your beliefs validated?

Victor, I believe the term that best applies to you is willfull ignorance. LOL @ quoting Cenk Ugyur as proof that Republicans always lie but Democrats never do.

 

[The Real]

Ahhh yes. Those evil Republicans constantly lie but the saintly Democrats would never do such a thing. Democrats don't lie, they just occassionally bend the truth.



Get the fukk out of here you idiot. Did you ever consider the fact that maybe you are unaware of all the Democrats' lies because you live in a fukking bubble? Do you really expect to be fully informed about the world when you get all your information from Cenk Ugyur, Bill Maher, and those clowns from Comedy Central? Can you really be fully informed when you retreat to internet blogs and message boards where everyone agrees with you in order to have your beliefs validated?

Victor, I believe the term that best applies to you is willfull ignorance. LOL @ quoting Cenk Ugyur as proof that Republicans always lie but Democrats never do.

Would you mind listing a few of Cenk's lies?