New NRA President calls the Civil War "the war of northern aggression"

[DriZZy]

so what was it truly about?

The main motive was to have something big play out in order to secure more funding for the ATF.

 

[Dr. Sebi Jr.]

Negroes Require Armament. THAT is the ONLY ORIGINAL NRA.

 

[daze23]

the main motive was to have something big play out in order to secure more funding for the ATF.

so you believe they burned children to secure more funding?

 

[Mowgli]

Even you know this isnt true. They may not be as willing to engage in open conflict with each other, but they fear each other and build armaments to outdo each other.

Maybe you should give Civilization IV a try. Its a great game, friend.

Among the civlian population what i said is true. Governments will always build arms to outdo one another, fact.

 

[DriZZy]

so you believe they burned children to secure more funding?

Yes, which is what makes it so horrible.

These are facts, not theories.

 

[daze23]

Yes, which is what makes it so horrible.

These are facts, not theories.

is there any evidence behind these "facts"?

 

[DriZZy]

is there any evidence behind these "facts"?

In any case, the BATF's public relations officer was stationed in Waco on the day of the raid ready to issue a press release announcing the raid's success. [19] A much-publicized raid, resulting in the seizure of hundreds of guns and dozens of "cultists" might reasonably be expected to improve the fortunes of BATF Director, Stephen Higgins, who was scheduled to testify before the U.S. Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Treasury, Postal Service, and General Government on March 10, 1993. Investigative reporter Carol Vinzant wrote:

*5 In the jargon of at least one ATF office, the Waco raid was what is known as a ZBO ("Zee Big One"), a press-drawing stunt that when shown to Congress at budget time justifies more funding. One of the largest deployments in bureau history, the attack on the Branch Davidians compound was, in the eyes of some of the agents, the ultimate ZBO. [20]

60 Minutes rebroadcast the BATF segment a few months later. Host Mike Wallace opined that almost all the agents he talked to said that they believe the initial attack on that cult in Waco was a publicity stunt--the main goal of which was to improve ATF's tarnished image. [21] The codeword for the beginning of the BATF raid was "showtime." [22]

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/135wac.htm

 

[daze23]

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/135wac.htm

the raid failed though, and 4 ATF agents got deaded. then the FBI got involved, and there was a long standoff. there was a fire. probably caused by the FBI's tear gas canister, but who knows. and in the end they found mad weapons

like most cult leaders, Koresh had a 13 y/o wife and child abuse allegations. I agree the outcome was fuct up, but I don't think it was planned, and I don't think Koresh is worth defending. he put all those kids in danger by having a standoff with federal agents

 

[DriZZy]

the raid failed though, and 4 ATF agents got deaded. then the FBI got involved, and there was a long standoff. there was a fire. probably caused by the FBI's tear gas canister, but who knows. and in the end they found mad weapons

like most cult leaders, Koresh had a 13 y/o wife and child abuse allegations. I agree the outcome was fuct up, but I don't think it was planned, and I don't think Koresh is worth defending. he put all those kids in danger by having a standoff with federal agents

All of the pedophilia charges against Koresh were bullshyt, again, this is basic info.

Plus, Koresh didn't put them in danger, the ATF most likely shot first, what do you do when someone's shooting at you?

And don't forget, officially they burned themselves alive.

 

[daze23]

All of the pedophilia charges against Koresh were bullshyt, again, this is basic info.

Plus, Koresh didn't put them in danger, the ATF most likely shot first, what do you do when someone's shooting at you?

And don't forget, officially they burned themselves alive.

how can you brush off the "pedophilia charges" as being bullshyt? the charges didn't stick. but multiple independant child abuse and pedophilia charges, along with being a cult leader, isn't a good look

we don't know who fired the first shot

if it was themselves, or the FBI, how does that work into the ATF's plan to get more funding? was losing 4 agents, and letting the FBI take over, part of the plan? the FBI was involved in a long standoff, so it's not like they came in and saved the day. the outcome was horrible, and didn't look good for any of the agencies involved

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

how can you brush off the "pedophilia charges" as being bullshyt? the charges didn't stick. but multiple independant child abuse and pedophilia charges, along with being a cult leader, isn't a good look

we don't know who fired the first shot

if it was themselves, or the FBI, how does that work into the ATF's plan to get more funding? was losing 4 agents, and letting the FBI take over, part of the plan? the FBI was involved in a long standoff, so it's not like they came in and saved the day. the outcome was horrible, and didn't look good for any of the agencies involved

I hate it when ca--uh, people bytch about the "tyranny" of Waco and the Ruby Ridge incident and are silent about all the terrorism committed by authorities against the Black Panthers, civil rights and black nationalist groups, and the countless cases of police brutality against black citizens...not to mention the Wilmington NC, Rosewood, and Tulsa incidents.

 

[DriZZy]

how can you brush off the "pedophilia charges" as being bullshyt? the charges didn't stick. but multiple independant child abuse and pedophilia charges, along with being a cult leader, isn't a good look

we don't know who fired the first shot

if it was themselves, or the FBI, how does that work into the ATF's plan to get more funding? was losing 4 agents, and letting the FBI take over, part of the plan? the FBI was involved in a long standoff, so it's not like they came in and saved the day. the outcome was horrible, and didn't look good for any of the agencies involved

Because the same people who were giving those accounts were giving clearly false charges, like that Koresh raped an 85 (might have that age slightly off) year old woman, and got her pregnant.

And things clearly didn't go as well as they had planned, but that's besides the point, they did it for funding, and they ended up murdering numerous innocent people.

 

[DriZZy]

I hate it when ca--uh, people bytch about the "tyranny" of Waco and the Ruby Ridge incident and are silent about all the terrorism committed by authorities against the Black Panthers, civil rights and black nationalist groups, and the countless cases of police brutality against black citizens...not to mention the Wilmington NC, Rosewood, and Tulsa incidents.

It's not like there's two different governments or something though, or that either thing invalidates the other.

Our government has a history of killing innocent people from pretty much all racial backgrounds, which is what brings up the biggest point; You made this thread, so I assume you support gun control. Do you want government to have a monopoly on defense with an unarmed population? The same government that injected blacks with syphilis, the same government that practiced cointelpro on the black panther party, the same government that burned those kids alive at Waco, I could go on, but I don't think I have to.

And since you mentioned the Black Panthers, check out what their position on gun control was, I said was because the new ones are nobodies. Look what people like Larry Pinkney have to say about it. Also remember, the NRA was founded as a gun control group, and even targeted the black panthers for disarmament.

 

[lakinta]

Another thing that needs to be pointed out, I'm no fan of the NRA, but the main point is actually true. The idea that the Civil War was fought over slavery is as much a myth as Christopher Columbus trying to prove the earth was round or the Easter Bunny.

The civil war was all about slavery. A quick read of SC's justification for secession makes that clear: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

The north was not opposed to the institution out of moralistic concerns, for sure. But they did revile slavery because it threatened their system of "free (wage) labor."

 

[thekingsmen]

debatable but lets not get into that. the point of my post was over time as america becomes more liberal the NRA will radicalize to the point of effectively destroying themselves, and the gun lobby. hopefully every lobby.

Why bring the shyt up if you wanted to backdown from it?