NBA Myths Busted: Players Are Wayyyy Bigger Than They Used To Be

[Jplaya2023]

Mark Eaton dpoy of the year Mark Eaton
Oliver Millier
George Muresan
Shawn Bradley
Etc….

It’s one thing if they were on a roster. These dudes were starting.

And don’t get me started on them white boys from the 80s

All u have to do is watch older videos

Oliver Miller was actually very mobile for being as big as he was.

I'll give you Bradley, but George actually had very good footwork being 7'6 and use to give teams problems. Before he got injured he was actually a very good NBA Player. But what do you say about guys like Boban the dragon, Taco (he's athletic but can'pt even see the floor)

 

[Easy-E]

Can’t take your opinion serious after this

I was obvisiouly joking.

You said "freaks"



like Bogan is Shawn Kemp or something

 

[ISO]

Bogut wasn’t a stiff clearly y’all don’t know what a stiff is

 

[Professor Emeritus]

who? name names? These takes are outrageous

Paul Mokeski playing exactly how he looks like he'd play:






Will Perdue showing off his 10" vertical:






Greg Ostertag attacking the basket as if he's never jumped anything other than straight up in his life:






Joe Kleine, who somehow lasted 16 years in the NBA






There was also that run of super-tall, super-slow guys who were in the league solely to be tall (Shawn Bradley, Gheorge Mureson, Manute Bol, Mark Eaton, Chuck Nevitt), but I'll give them a pass cause they were all like 7'5" plus. But between them they started ~1600 games combined which is crazy considering I'm not sure if any of them could jump over their own shoe length.


League used to be full of these big white Americans:

The NBA’s Greatest Big White Stiffs

“What happened to all the big white stiffs?” That’s the question I’ve asked myself numerous times while watching this seasons NBA Playoffs. Those big, lumbering, talentless …

thedunkyard.com

 

[The Amerikkkan Idol]

No one has ever said the centers guarding Wilt were 6'4".

However, there were plenty of lineups where there'd only be one unathletic white stiff at 6'8" or 6'9" guarding wilt and the rest of the team on the court was 6'6" or shorter. Do you disagree with that or nah?






They're not "random white people", I posted the a starting center in the NBA Finals in every year from 1958 to 1963 and nearly all of the other 6'9" or taller players. You do realize the league was 75% white back then and is 75% non-white now, right? You do realize that today's centers are MILES more skilled and athletic than those guys, right?

You also probably don't realize there were only 8 teams back then. So I was listing 2/3 of the centers in the league, not just a few "random white guys".

I mean how fukking stupid would you be to put Porzingis and Jokic in the same sentence as those stiffs.






Breh Jokic is 6'11" 285lbs and one of the most skilled motherfukkers in the league.

The guys I posted were 6'9" 195lbs and had no fukking skill whatsoever.






It's nothing to do with evolution, it's the size of the talent pool. Fact is, in 1960 the NBA was a fringe sport with a tiny talent pool of mostly white americans.

Now the NBA is a massive global sport which a huge talent pool of all races. There are over 20x as many boys playing basketball worldwide now as there was in 1960. That's why white americans got completely marginalized - they went from being the only game in town to being a fringe minority in the sport.

Claiming the tallest players will be the same is like saying, "People are the same height in Vermont and New York, so there should be the same centers in both states!" And then being surprised that New York is full of 6'10" athletic boys with skill while a 6'5" white stiff can be starting at the 5 on an elite Vermont team.

1. That's completely false.

Plenty of people have claimed Centers were 6'6" and shyt like that in Wilt Chamberlain's day

That's why others have addressed this falsehood, too.

Ignorance is Contagious: Myths About the 1960's Debunked | Hardwood Amino

In my time on Hardwood (and in the basketball discussion scene altogether), I've seen many individu

aminoapps.com

2. And these are current MVP's in the NBA

This dude is about to possibly be the #1 pick in the NBA draft

Hell, this dude at 5'9, 165 lbs, averaged 30 points a game in today's NBA

Someone really has to explain this to me.


Do you think Oregon has the same amount of top-level bball size and talent as California?

Do you think Maine has the same amount of top-level bball size and talent as New York?

Do you think Arkansas has the same amount of top-level bball size and talent as Texas?

Do you think West Virginia has the same amount of top-level bball size and talent as Florida?


Then why the hell would a few mostly White Americans in a fringe sport in the 1950s have the same amount of top-level bball size and talent as a globally popular sport with a massive fanbase in the 2010s?



Basketball went from a young sport to an established sport, went from a fringe sport to one of the most popular sports, went from a local American sport to a global sport, and went from a racist white-dominated sport to a sport open to any race. As a result of those four moves (plus the world population tripling), the talent pool increased MASSIVELY. You have 20x as many kids training to play bball now as you did back then. 20x as big a talent pool means you get much better top-end talent.

It's not hard to understand. Expecting the same size and talent in 1960 as we have now would be like expecting Sioux Falls, South Dakota to produce as much size and talent as Chicago.

I didn't say there was just as much talent in 1960 as today.

I never made that argument.

I said that players were not SMALLER and they were LEGITIMATE athletes.

My point is, players haven't evolved THAT MUCH, not that they haven't evolved at all.

Wilt Chamberlain at a LEGIT 7'2, could bench press 500 lbs, run a 4.6 40 yard dash, with a 45 inch vertical leap would STILL be a load for anybody to handle today. He'd still be a freak today.

Y'all act like nobody from back then could play today or be good today, which is ridiculous

you even had a player like Kevin Garnett a full 7'1 in early 2000's


















ballhandling shot creation

Dude, I agree with you, but you can't post that many vids like that without spoilering that shyt.

The NBA changed the rule in 2019 and started measuring players barefoot. Those heights from the past are not accurate by todays standards. Those measurements were all in shoes.

Michael Jordan is 6’4.5” barefoot. Hakeem is 6’10”, Barkley is 6’4”, etc…

Players are obviously bigger today than they were in the past. That’s not even up for debate.

You've got it backwards.

They measured the players WITHOUT shoes until the '80s, then they started measuring them with shoes for a while.

If they've gone back to measuring them without shoes, then good, they should've never stopped.

It's all ebbs and flows like someone said

IMO it all comes down to how players are recruited, developed and trained based on the demands of the game...the talent is pretty much the same

30 years ago seems like it was the thing to have was a "big"...so everyone went looking for the next one...if you were 7ft plus, and had some degree of dominance you were recruited, developed and trained to play like one

20 years ago..."athelticism" iso, self-shot creators became the fad...TMAC, Kobe, Iverson, VC, Ray Allen, KG etc...samething, recruited, developed and trained

then at some point it seems like that evolved into the 6'10 point/Forward who could hit perimeter shots...then eventually the PG/SG hybrid who could chuck 3s became the must have for all teams...so you get guys like Steph, Harden, Dame, Book, etc

Again, it seems like if you have that specific talent that they're looking for in that given generation...they recruit, develop and train you...it's not that they don't look for other things too...but it seems like the the pick n roll perimeter shooting gets everyone's attention first

Now, THIS is my overall point.

Humans haven't evolved that much in the past 50 years, just HOW the game is played which puts an emphasis on different things in different eras.

This era is a less physical era, inspired by Euro ball, so there's less need for pure athletes and goons.

Back then, a lot of these "stretch 4s" would be getting elbowed in the mouth and not be tough enough to play big minutes in some eras.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

@The Amerikkkan Idol , that gigantic wall of strawmen and red herrings is impossible to argue with. You're all over the place not even responding to what I was saying and then claiming I made arguments I never made.

And again, Jokic is FAR bigger and FAR more skilled than the guys I posted while being more athletic than most of them too, so WTF does he have to do with the conversation? 6'11" 285lb Jokic would fukking ragdoll MVPs of that era like 6'8" 205lb center Bob Pettitt (and yes, Pettit played center his first three seasons including MVP and title seasons), and I didn't even include Pettitt in my list cause at least he had skill. What did you even think I was arguing that you feel posting Jokic and Harden somehow helps your point?



Here's 6'8" 205lb Pettit at center on his way to 50 points and 19 rebounds against Russell's Celtics in the deciding game of the '58 Finals....and you're talking about a monster like Jokic?

 

[The Amerikkkan Idol]

@The Amerikkkan Idol , that gigantic wall of strawmen and red herrings is impossible to argue with. You're all over the place not even responding to what I was saying and then claiming I made arguments I never made.

And again, Jokic is FAR bigger and FAR more skilled than the guys I posted while being more athletic than most of them too, so WTF does he have to do with the conversation? 6'11" 285lb Jokic would fukking ragdoll MVPs of that era like 6'8" 205lb center Bob Pettitt (and yes, Pettit played center his first three seasons including MVP and title seasons), and I didn't even include Pettitt in my list cause at least he had skill. What did you even think I was arguing that you feel posting Jokic and Harden somehow helps your point?



Here's 6'8" 205lb Pettit at center on his way to 50 points and 19 rebounds against Russell's Celtics in the deciding game of the '58 Finals....and you're talking about a monster like Jokic?

6'6 220lb Draymond Green has been guarding centers for the past 6 years

6'6 220lb Dennis Rodman used to guard Shaquille O'Neal and shut him down

Lots of dudes have been 6'6"-6'9 guarding centers in the modern NBA

And you act like Jokic is the first guy to be 6'11"

There's been 6'11 guys in the NBA since it's inception.

Plus, he's fat

With your logic, he doesn't look like he could be in shape, so we have to presume he's playing in a weak era because a fat dudes able to win MVP

 

[Professor Emeritus]

6'6 220lb Draymond Green has been guarding centers for the past 6 years

6'6 220lb Dennis Rodman used to guard Shaquille O'Neal and shut him down

Lots of dudes have been 6'6"-6'9 guarding centers in the modern NBA

What argument do you think you're making? You wanna compared two DPOY's to skinny unathletic scrubs who couldn't play defense for shyt?

Say you don't know basketball without saying it breh. You literally just named two DPOYs and thought you had something.

If I wanted to mock height alone, I would have named Wes Unseld, cause he was playing center at just 6'7". But I didn't, cause Wes was a beast on defense. He is nothing like the old white scrubs I was posting who were 6'8" or 6'9" AND skinny AND unathletic AND unskilled. Do you not see the difference?

And you act like Jokic is the first guy to be 6'11"

There's been 6'11 guys in the NBA since it's inception.

Plus, he's fat

With your logic, he doesn't look like he could be in shape, so we have to presume he's playing in a weak era because a fat dudes able to win MVP

I started to suspect I'm wasting my time cause you can't read this for shyt.

You tried to use Jokic's MVP as a diss against the modern NBA. Which made zero sense cause Jokic is HUGE and SKILLED. You know how many guys were that size in the 1950s or 1960s. The list is ONE long. It's Wilt, and Wilt didn't have Jokic's outside game so if you could stay between him and the basket (only a few players like Russell, Thurmond, Unseld could do it), then you had a shot even if you were just 6'7" like Unseld. Whereas Jokic would just shoot over a guy like Unseld because he didn't rely on getting close to the basket nearly as much as Wilt does.

A skilled 6'11" with Jokic's size would ALWAYS have been a force in the NBA in any era. So it makes no sense to use him as an example, or to compare him to guys who wouldn't even make the NBA today.

This thread is literally about how size has changed in the NBA, and you great example was a center who has either 3-4 inches or 50-60 pounds on EVERY center of that era outside of Wilt....and is literally more skilled than any of them on top of that. Clown posting.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

A stiff is a guy who is neither athletic nor skilled. It doesn't mean your back is literally stiff


Duncan and Horford were both mobile and skilled. No one would refer to them as stiffs breh, come on now.

Bruh, the posters on here are mentally COOKED

 

[Raw Lyrics]

shyt is
But also notice the dramatic reduction of personal fouls
Interesting since a lot of people act like there are more fouls called now, not less

People are driving less to the paint, with the intention of scoring, and less banging down low (pause).

50 threes a game will result in less fouls and the few times they do drive with the intention of scoring there's pitty pat calls.

 

[Raw Lyrics]

Why is it always the white posters who like to disrespect players from the past who were white? If you believe in racial supremacy and inferiority based on athleticism, then I guess you also believe in racial supremacy and inferiority based on intelligence. So tell me, do you agree with the NFL that since black people score lower on aptitude tests like IQ that we are less intelligent than whites?

You can't have it both ways. You can't go around believing in racial supremacy and inferiority based on athleticism but then say it doesn't apply to intelligence. Either racial supremacy exists across the board or it doesn't exist. So which is it?

He's white?

 

[Swagnificent]

He's white?

Yeah. He admitted years ago. I always thought it was weird cause he always acted covertly like he was black. But I remember we had a debate on some African history topic and he finally folded then exposing himself. Only so long a cac can pretend before their true nature emerges.

 

[The Amerikkkan Idol]

What argument do you think you're making? You wanna compared two DPOY's to skinny unathletic scrubs who couldn't play defense for shyt?

Say you don't know basketball without saying it breh. You literally just named two DPOYs and thought you had something.

If I wanted to mock height alone, I would have named Wes Unseld, cause he was playing center at just 6'7". But I didn't, cause Wes was a beast on defense. He is nothing like the old white scrubs I was posting who were 6'8" or 6'9" AND skinny AND unathletic AND unskilled. Do you not see the difference?






I started to suspect I'm wasting my time cause you can't read this for shyt.

You tried to use Jokic's MVP as a diss against the modern NBA. Which made zero sense cause Jokic is HUGE and SKILLED. You know how many guys were that size in the 1950s or 1960s. The list is ONE long. It's Wilt, and Wilt didn't have Jokic's outside game so if you could stay between him and the basket (only a few players like Russell, Thurmond, Unseld could do it), then you had a shot even if you were just 6'7" like Unseld. Whereas Jokic would just shoot over a guy like Unseld because he didn't rely on getting close to the basket nearly as much as Wilt does.

A skilled 6'11" with Jokic's size would ALWAYS have been a force in the NBA in any era. So it makes no sense to use him as an example, or to compare him to guys who wouldn't even make the NBA today.

This thread is literally about how size has changed in the NBA, and you great example was a center who has either 3-4 inches or 50-60 pounds on EVERY center of that era outside of Wilt....and is literally more skilled than any of them on top of that. Clown posting.

No dude, YOU have jacked my thread and YOU can't read.

I made the thread because idiots on here and everywhere else argue that players have gotten MUCH BIGGER than they used to be.

That is unequivocably FALSE, as I showed.

Players today are on average smaller than they were in 2000 and on average NBA players have been 6-6/6-7 since the 1960s and somewhere between 205 and 220 for the past 40 years.

I never said that everybody in the NBA in 1960 is was better or worse than they are today.

That wasn't the point of the fukking thread, G.

YOU say, the players couldn't possibly compete back then because god forbid you have 6'9 players guarding centers and god forbid some of them are

*gasp*

WHITE

I show you 6'6 guys like Draymond guarding centers today in THIS NBA

And unathletic looking guys like Jokic and Chet Holmgren who are highly regarded players TODAY.

My point is and ALWAYS WAS

You can't just look at how guys look, which you completely missed because your go to moves seems to be just showing that there used to be unathletic looking White people in the NBA, when unathletic looking White people are winning MVP's this year.

Yeah, there was no 3 point shot so Johnny "Red" Kerr didn't have to shoot threes and you didn't have stretch 4s, but he had the tools that he need for the game in HIS time.

How do you know he's not a better rebounder, outlet passer, and overall tougher and able to withstand the rigors of an 82 game season than most modern players?

We don't.

That's the point.

The GAME has changed and the players have change to meet the game, which means that a lot of guys from the past would've changed if they were playing by the same rules as everyone else.

Basically, players are players

The idea that guys are way different physically, therefore inherently superior to guys from earlier eras is nonsense.

They're basically the same size, with the major differences being the rules they play by and the "medical advances" they have available to them.

Happy?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

No dude, YOU have jacked my thread and YOU can't read.

I made the thread because idiots on here and everywhere else argue that players have gotten MUCH BIGGER than they used to be.

That is unequivocably FALSE, as I showed.

Except what we actually showed is that players have gotten substantially bigger in body mass and muscle, and that they've gotten taller on the perimeter. No one was arguing that bigs had gotten taller since the 1970s/80s so that part of your argument was a complete strawman, the only time we talk about shorter bigs is when we're talking about the 50s.

YOU say, the players couldn't possibly compete back then because god forbid you have 6'9 players guarding centers and god forbid some of them are

*gasp*

WHITE

Except that's not what I said. I said they were skinny, unathletic, unskilled white centers who were largely 6'9" and under. Of course they weren't gonna do jack shyt against any taller player with body mass and talent.

You can't just look at how guys look, which you completely missed because your go to moves seems to be just showing that there used to be unathletic looking White people in the NBA, when unathletic looking White people are winning MVP's this year.

3-4 times already I showed you what a dumb misreading of my statement this was. I only have to say you're fukking lost now.

An unathletic and unskilled white guy who runs 6'9" 205lbs is not comparable to massively skilled 6'11" 285lb Jokic on any planet. Your claim did not "make a point", it didn't even make sense. It's like arguing that Glass Joe can't be that bad because hey, Tyson Fury is a champ!

Yeah, there was no 3 point shot so Johnny "Red" Kerr didn't have to shoot threes and you didn't have stretch 4s, but he had the tools that he need for the game in HIS time.

How do you know he's not a better rebounder, outlet passer, and overall tougher and able to withstand the rigors of an 82 game season than most modern players?

We don't.

That's the point.

The GAME has changed and the players have change to meet the game, which means that a lot of guys from the past would've changed if they were playing by the same rules as everyone else.

Basically, players are players

The idea that guys are way different physically, therefore inherently superior to guys from earlier eras is nonsense.

They're basically the same size, with the major differences being the rules they play by and the "medical advances" they have available to them.

Happy?

No, that's completely fukking ignorant and misses the point I've made 100 times which is that you CAN'T claim a few guys picked out a tiny talent pool are going to be the equal of a bigger group.

They were a motley collection of undersized unathletic white guys BECAUSE 90% of the people allowed to play basketball at any level came from a small pool of white guys. If the global population had been 3x larger in the 1950s, and everyone played basketball, and it was a global sport, and all the black people who wanted to play got their chance, THEN you would have had at least a chance of getting similar talent in that era. As it was, the talent wasn't even close.


Just answer this question. Do you think the bball talent in Idaho is as good as the bball talent in California? Ever, in any year? Yes or no? And why not?

Once you realize the answer to that question, you're realize why the talent developed in the 1950s was never going to touch the size, athleticism, or skill of the talent developed in the 2010s, REGARDLESS of what kind of training they got or system they played in. There just wasn't enough talent to choose from cause the talent pool was too fukking small.

 

[SnugglesDaBear]

Players were definitely swoler in the late 90s early 00s.