Nasa-funded study warns of ‘collapse of civilisation’ in coming decades

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People are greedy bottom line, a millionaire wants to be a billionaire and wouldn't mind it costing others lives in the process.

Why can't we be like goku from DBZ, he sacrificed his life countless times for the greater good of humanity, even if it was one person he'd put his life on the line.

That's a problem today, too many villians and not enough heroes, we got people dreams who are just wanting more for themselves, there has to be a point of giving back.

Reality hurts, the world is cold unrelenting place ran by villainous people, get your head of the clouds, heroes win in the movies because it's a fantasy
the reason my gangster is revered in America media is because this and the outlaws of the old west are the closest you will ever get to a real life hero

Don't give me no fukking soldier, some dumb ass in a uniform following orders, risking their lives over the agendas of men they don't know who could careless about them of their families. That's not a hero that's puppet. IF soldiers were heroes, they would put their guns down and go back to their families, instead of fighting useless wars. But that would be too hard, that would take too much courage to stand up against the beast, it's easy to sell your soul by becoming a murderer in the name of free enterprise. A pawn is pawn no matter who moves the piece, a hero is no one's pawn. If the American Generals were real heroes, they would order the troops to storm the capital and arrest the cronies of the greedy oligarchs and force them to reveal their identities or be hung for treason.

The problem is too many people are preaching to the choir instead of devising plans to change the establishment
 

DEAD7

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Based on what???
For starters real cost, free from govt. subsidies.

For example if Americans paid the full price for gas at the pump, the cry for alternative fuel would be loud and clear. In fact many Americans believe that gas is in fact "cheap", when its anything but, and isnt going to get any cheaper.

These distortions would be drastically reduced in a free market(less regulated market).
 

TLR Is Mental Poison

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For starters real cost, free from govt. subsidies.

These distortions would be drastically reduced in a free market(less regulated market).
US used about ~133B gallons, or ~$400B of gasoline in 2013. Gasoline subsidies in the US are estimated to be about ~$4B/yr. So if gas is ~$3/gallon that's $0.03/gal in subsidies. That's "drastic" to you? :leon: Or did you just pull that "example" out of your ass? :patrice:
 

DEAD7

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US used about ~133B gallons, or ~$400B of gasoline in 2013. Gasoline subsidies in the US are estimated to be about ~$4B/yr. So if gas is ~$3/gallon that's $0.03/gal in subsidies. That's "drastic" to you? :leon: Or did you just pull that "example" out of your ass? :patrice:
You must not be counting the tax breaks. Obama has been preaching about closing big oil loop holes for some time, i'm shocked this isnt common knowledge.

us-energy-subsidies1.jpg


Can you provide a link to your source.


... in the meantime take agriculture. Subsidies to beef and alfalfa have not only distorted market prices making a burger cheaper than a salad, but have help accelerate the water crisis here in California.
There was just a thread discussing this.




 

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Debunked fairly well here: http://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/...uses_bad_history_to_mathematically_determine/

On the surface this just looks like a click-baiting article which points to some models that may determine the survival or collapse of society. I don't have too many problems with these models, and they can be quite useful when determining policy. However two lines in the article stuck out like a sore thumb.

All societal collapses over the past 5,000 years, Motesharrei writes, have involved both “the stretching of resources due to the strain placed on the ecological carrying capacity” and “the economic stratification of society into Elites (the rich) and Masses (the poor).”

This is an absurd generalization. For example, I'm quite sure the Persian Empire didn't collapse from the overuse of resources by elites, but rather due a shocking military campaign led by a certain young Macedonian man named Alexander.

Other examples include the Roman Empire. In the West this certainly was a factor, but also the advances of barbarians including Huns, Visigoths and Ostragoths led to the fall of the West. The fall of the East was motivated by several factors including primarily the Fourth Crusade, which established the oddity known as the Latin Empire, from which the Eastern Roman Empire never recovered. This study falls into the same trap that many others do, in that they try to ascribe the fall of societies to a single cause.

Though science should theoretically save us, history has only shown technology to bring us closer to collapse.

WHAT?! Societies have used the advancement of technology as building blocks to increase population (through agricultural and medical advances), expand borders (through military technology) and streamline the efficient running of a society (through the printing press, computers and the internet etc.). This seems like an absurd reversal of the fedoratheist "Science is all good, all hail STEM!" position. Both are just as wrong as each other.

Why does this article has such awful generalizations? let's have a look.

the study, written by mathematician Safa Motesharrei of the National Socio-Environmental Synthesis along with a team of natural and social scientists, explains that the nature and structure of modern society was doomed from the start.
Ah yes. A mathematician did this. Unfortunately determining the course of the history of modern society requires far more than a few equations. The most glaring example is mathematics' ability to determine human agency, which is one of the important factors for change in human history. How does the mathematician propose to solve this imaginary, inevitable societal collapse?

“The two key solutions are to reduce economic inequality so as to ensure fairer distribution of resources, and to dramatically reduce resource consumption by relying on less intensive renewable resources and reducing population growth.”
Hey these aren't bad ideas for humans to pursue. Unfortunately in this context it just looks like a misuse of history under a veil of mathematics to promote a liberal agenda.
I should also note that this violates the Ninth Circle of Bad History, by trying to reduce history into a deterministic series of mathematical equations.
 

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You must not be counting the tax breaks. Obama has been preaching about closing big oil loop holes for some time, i'm shocked this isnt common knowledge.

us-energy-subsidies1.jpg


Can you provide a link to your source.

... in the meantime take agriculture. Subsidies to beef and alfalfa have not only distorted market prices making a burger cheaper than a salad, but have help accelerate the water crisis here in California.
There was just a thread discussing this.

"Fossil fuels" include everything from oil to coal to natural gas. The subsidies for oil are only about ~$4B. That includes gasoline, diesel, and heating oil. So that $0.01 on the dollar I quoted is even lower....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/energys...il-subsidies-persist-even-liberals-love-them/

The summary of oil-related subsidies in the U.S. for 2010 totals $4.5 billion. That is a number often put forward; $4 billion a year or so in support for those greedy oil companies.

Here's a link to the data they looked at.

http://www.oecd.org/site/tadffss/

It's not common knowledge because it isn't true. If there is a country that pays a truer price for gasoline than the US, point em out. I don't think they exist. Everyone else is either heavily taxed or destructively subsidized.
 

OsO

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Reality hurts, the world is cold unrelenting place ran by villainous people, get your head of the clouds, heroes win in the movies because it's a fantasy
the reason my gangster is revered in America media is because this and the outlaws of the old west are the closest you will ever get to a real life hero

Don't give me no fukking soldier, some dumb ass in a uniform following orders, risking their lives over the agendas of men they don't know who could careless about them of their families. That's not a hero that's puppet. IF soldiers were heroes, they would put their guns down and go back to their families, instead of fighting useless wars. But that would be too hard, that would take too much courage to stand up against the beast, it's easy to sell your soul by becoming a murderer in the name of free enterprise. A pawn is pawn no matter who moves the piece, a hero is no one's pawn. If the American Generals were real heroes, they would order the troops to storm the capital and arrest the cronies of the greedy oligarchs and force them to reveal their identities or be hung for treason.

The problem is too many people are preaching to the choir instead of devising plans to change the establishment
:patrice: i feel like you're being a little harsh on our soldiers... mind control is a powerful thing, and the worst part of being a victim of mind control is one usually has no idea they are even being controlled or manipulated.

but your post is the truth tho...
 

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"Fossil fuels" include everything from oil to coal to natural gas. The subsidies for oil are only about ~$4B. That includes gasoline, diesel, and heating oil. So that $0.01 on the dollar I quoted is even lower....
http://www.forbes.com/sites/energys...il-subsidies-persist-even-liberals-love-them/
Here's a link to the data they looked at.
http://www.oecd.org/site/tadffss/
It's not common knowledge because it isn't true. If there is a country that pays a truer price for gasoline than the US, point em out. I don't think they exist. Everyone else is either heavily taxed or destructively subsidized.
I stand corrected. :ehh:
and :russ:@ Obama for bringing oil subsidies up constantly on the campaign trail. That niqqa really don't care.


but back to subsidies distorting the market. Agriculture? :mjpls:

"The first rule for staying alive in a desert is not to pour the contents of your water flask into the sand. Yet that, bizarrely, is what the government has encouraged farmers to do in the drought-afflicted south-west. Agriculture accounts for 80% of water consumption in California, for example, but only 2% of economic activity. Farmers flood the land to grow rice, alfalfa and other thirsty crops. By one account, over the years they have paid just 15% of the capital costs of the federal system that delivers much of their irrigation water. If water were priced properly, it is a safe bet that they would waste far less of it, and the effects of California’s drought—its worst in recorded history—would not be so severe."

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...rners-consider-wasting-less-water-drying-west



‘‘(c) ESTABLISHMENT OF DAIRY PRODUCER MARGIN
9 INSURANCE PROGRAM.—The Secretary shall establish and
10 administer a dairy producer margin insurance program for
11 the purpose of protecting dairy producer income by paying
12 participating dairy producers margin insurance payments
13 when actual dairy producer margins are less than the
14 threshold levels for the payments.
15 ‘‘(d) ELIGIBILITY AND REGISTRATION OF DAIRY
16 PRODUCERS FOR MARGIN INSURANCE PROGRAM.—
17 ‘‘(1) ELIGIBILITY.—All dairy producers in the
18 United States shall be eligible to participate in the
19 margin insurance program.
20 ‘‘(2) REGISTRATION PROCESS.—
21 ‘‘(A) REGISTRATION.—
22 ‘‘(i) ANNUAL REGISTRATION.—On an
23 annual basis, the Secretary shall register
24 all interested dairy producers in the mar-
25 gin insurance program.

19 ‘‘(C) The price of alfalfa hay for a month
20 shall be the price received during that month by
21 agricultural producers in the United States for
22 alfalfa hay, as reported in the monthly Agri-
23 culture Prices report by the Secretary.

Farmers here where i'm at are choosing to grow federally insured crops(for obvious reasons) over other crops... how is this not a distortion?
 

Yuzo

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What is the alternative to capitalism?
the true answer is.. less people. the capitalist system thrives on growth which is a cute way to say, more people buying more stuff. one of the biggest dilemmas for capitalists is unlocking newer markets for people to consume more of their stuff. this of course depletes natural resources at a faster rate, necessitating military control over those dwindling resources and conflicts over them etc which is why we have wars

anyway the core issue there is that capitalism needs lots of people buying lots of stuff. so ways around this is either less people, or a way to produce goods that dont deplete the natural resources required to make them eg green technology. my criticism of socialism/communism is that these systems still necessitate large scale depletion of resources so in that sense its realistically no more righteous than capitalism is and therefore not a relevant solution to the problem of sustainability
 

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the true answer is.. less people. the capitalist system thrives on growth which is a cute way to say, more people buying more stuff. one of the biggest dilemmas for capitalists is unlocking newer markets for people to consume more of their stuff. this of course depletes natural resources at a faster rate, necessitating military control over those dwindling resources and conflicts over them etc which is why we have wars

anyway the core issue there is that capitalism needs lots of people buying lots of stuff. so ways around this is either less people, or a way to produce goods that dont deplete the natural resources required to make them eg green technology. my criticism of socialism/communism is that these systems still necessitate large scale depletion of resources so in that sense its realistically no more righteous than capitalism is

true capitalism doesn't necessitate overconsumption or growth for the sake of growth/ growth in questionable industries
 

Yuzo

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true capitalism doesn't necessitate overconsumption
the problem there is that a capitalist that does not seize more markets will be out competed by a capitalist who can. this is why capitalism tends to grow so much. its a big rush to the top. one thing marx was right about is that the system of capitalism always trends to states of overconsumption in its never ending attempt to create more capital. this has been shown to be overwhelmingly true.
 

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I stand corrected. :ehh:
and :russ:@ Obama for bringing oil subsidies up constantly on the campaign trail. That niqqa really don't care.

but back to subsidies distorting the market. Agriculture? :mjpls:



http://www.economist.com/news/unite...rners-consider-wasting-less-water-drying-west




Farmers here where i'm at are choosing to grow federally insured crops(for obvious reasons) over other crops... how is this not a distortion?
Discussing things with you is tiring. This isn't the first time I pulled out the bottom Jenga block from your tower of misinformation. I don't know a ton about farming subsidies but I'm going to assume you're probably misinformed about that too.
 

DEAD7

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Discussing things with you is tiring. This isn't the first time I pulled out the bottom Jenga block from your tower of misinformation. I don't know a ton about farming subsidies but I'm going to assume you're probably misinformed about that too.
I quoted the bill itself :ehh:... but I could be misinterpreting it.



side note: I appreciate you "pulling the bottom Jenga block". I don't see anything negative, offensive, or undesirable about being corrected and given accurate information. Anytime I am "sonned' I've learned something, and that's the name of the game. At least for me it is :manny:
You seem to think that you are some how hurting me by correcting me, when you are doing me a great service.
 
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