My Posse's On Broadway: Official NY Knicks 2016-2017 Season Thread

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

The NBA is a star driven league I'm taking the player with the higher upside every time which is why I'd gamble on Fox or DSJ over Frank

If we went "safe" a few years ago we would have taken Winslow over KP

I agree, i just i dont think Frank's ceiling is that far off of Fox's, and probably around the same level as Smith's. I feel like Ntilikina's defensive upside is being undervalued, and unlike most elite defensive prospects at the wing position, he's a good shooter with high offensive iq. He might not be a great athlete, but i think he can overcome that through sheer skill and experience eventually.

 

[DPresidential]

I really am impressed by some of you guys ability to analyze college/HS talent and make accurate predictions of how said players will transition into the NBA.

I look at these guys and I literally don't know how to see how they translate. Also, considering the competition they play against, I tend to lean towards euro league players.

Can anyone give a brief rundown of things you look for that shows a contrast between star college player to star college player?

 

[ikbm]

I really am impressed by some of you guys ability to analyze college/HS talent and make accurate predictions of how said players will transition into the NBA.

I look at these guys and I literally don't know how to see how they translate. Also, considering the competition they play against, I tend to lean towards euro league players.

Can anyone give a brief rundown of things you look for that shows a contrast between star college player to star college player?

you've ever heard the term of a college football quarterback running a "pro offense"....and have "good mechanics" and having measurables to succeed at the next level ....like height and speed?
its similar
its the reason why markelle will go #1 over ball
the league is a pick and roll league....and he knows how to be effective with the pick and roll...ball never runs pick and roll
markelles shooting mechanics are smooth and he shoots well....ball shoots well...but because of his mechanics he literally has not taken a shot moving to his right
length and explosiveness matter at the next level. length gives you the ability to be more effective on the defensive end....its why we're looking at frank ntilikina . he's a lanky mf...and has the potential to be a solid two way player...
from what i've seen he has a decent shot too. phil loves big guards too
hard to measure whats between the ears tho

 

[Malta]

I really am impressed by some of you guys ability to analyze college/HS talent and make accurate predictions of how said players will transition into the NBA.

It's not an exact science, or else we'd all be highly sought after scouts, but it's all about looking at the strengths a player has and projecting them to the NBA. If two players have the same skillset and play the same position but one of them is 6'5" and the other is 6'2" you will draft the taller guy, right?


Like, this is the probably number 1 pick for the 2019 draft -



You look at that and you're probably thinking he looks like a solid player, and I've seen mixtapes before and Zion looks better right? Then I tell you he's 6'11" and it becomes because he doesn't move like he's 6'11" and he looks extremely skilled for being that height.

I look at these guys and I literally don't know how to see how they translate. Also, considering the competition they play against, I tend to lean towards euro league players.

Can anyone give a brief rundown of things you look for that shows a contrast between star college player to star college player?

There's things you can't account for like extreme work ethics - Giannis / Kawhi where guys basically will themselves into being superstars. But, it's about looking at the skillset first, then moving from there, it's why the Luka Doncic kid is getting such high praise, because his skillset is so high for someone that just turned 18 and should be playing against High schoolers. He's posting incredible efficiency numbers for someone at his age, but then you have the question of whether or not his athleticism should warrant being 1 over a more raw player like Mo Bamba, but has the NBA athleticism.

The problem with Euroleague prospects is the vast majority of them don't play many minutes, because it's generally the young guys that the NBA is interested in and the Euro squads play vets a lot more. Like right now Frank Ntilikina doesn't really play that many minutes, and when he does it's not even at the position he will be playing in the NBA. It's harder to judge the Euros, which is why Russell & Jahlil were drafted before Kristaps, despite his skillset + height + athleticism being far and away better than Okafors, there was less info on him because as good as he was even Kristaps didn't play that much for his team compared to NCAA guys.

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

Damn Phil Jackson shytting on Fat Iverson turned these Melo stans into some bitter ass niccas Went from "I believe in the zen master"....to "We can find talent late in the first round I believe in our FO"...to now being happy we fukking up the tank I guess this is the only bright side for being wrong for the last 3 years

1) You're right, I had faith in Phil to get sh*t done, but guess what he hasn't, and people lose faith all the time.
2) You continue to call that man "fat Iverson" like it's some cool, creative diss towards Melo. But A) he probably has less body fat then 98% of the posters in this thread (including myself & I'm a slim dude). B) you act like being compared to Iverson is terrible, but AI was one the baddest dudes to play the game & is a Hall of Famer. Not to mention he had a HUGE impact on our generation coming up, and is STILL revered by his fans & peers alike. But I noticed only 2 types of people hated on AI's game and that is stat geeks & basketball "purists", and I didn't see much of that until I started posting here.

Which Melo stans does this refer to?

I've seen one person trolling back after brehs trolled Melo throughout the whole year.

This is fascinating because I'm interested in how what's happening on the court with the Knicks is a result of anything a Knicks fan has control over.

Sounds like the feels @I.V. spoke of.

Season almost over Breh.

This dude @Mr. Jack Napier consistently throws shade at people mentioning the draft in every season thread, so the idea that he is some type of victim (for lack of a better word) just getting justified payback is laughable. Dude is trolled for his horrible basketball opinions that year and year out are proven to be wrong...but let's not act like "get the fukk outta here with that draft shyt!!!" when delusions of playoff aspirations are still fresh is not a common theme. I can't wait for next season when bi-weekly threats to leave the thread come upon us.

Grown heterosexual men really shouldn't be using the phrase "throwing shade", but that's another topic for another thread. Secondly, my opinions are horrible because I don't believe in tanking. Well if that's the case, I'll continue to be ignorant . Now would that make the Miami Heat organization ignorant as well since they were 11-30 at one point and decided to make a run instead of bottoming out & getting some young pieces to go with Whiteside & Winslow

 

[Wargames]

Bros like At least we getting Frank at 6 (if we don't get knocked down to 9 on lottery night. If we got 4 there was always the chance we could of traded back got Frank and then got another good prospect like Justin Jackson.

 

[Malta]

Now would that make the Miami Heat organization ignorant as well since they were 11-30 at one point and decided to make a run instead of bottoming out & getting some young pieces to go with Whiteside & Winslow

Richardson - 24
Winslow - 20
Whiteside - 27
Waiters - 25
T. Johnson - 24
Dragic - 30
McGruder - 24
J. Johnson - 29


Stop bringing up other teams when the Knicks core is old as shyt outside of Porzingis. And yes they were stupid as hell to go for the playoffs, go in their thread and you'll see them posting like now.

 

[ikbm]

. Now would that make the Miami Heat organization ignorant as well since they were 11-30 at one point and decided to make a run instead of bottoming out & getting some young pieces to go with Whiteside & Winslow

yep...cause now they're gonna miss the playoffs and get the 14th pick in the draft for it
their whole team is younger than ours anyways
they have multiple younger players and avenues to improve them. we got kristaps and maybe willy...then 50 undrafted rookies

 

[Frump]

Bros like At least we getting Frank at 6 (if we don't get knocked down to 9 on lottery night. If we got 4 there was always the chance we could of traded back got Frank and then got another good prospect like Justin Jackson.

This isn't the NFL draft where there tons of good players. There's only a handful of good players each NBA draft and an even less amount of potential great players

I'm not ever in favor of moving back in the nba draft

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

Richardson - 24
Winslow - 20
Whiteside - 27
Waiters - 25
T. Johnson - 24
Dragic - 30
McGruder - 24
J. Johnson - 29


Stop bringing up other teams when the Knicks core is old as shyt outside of Porzingis. And yes they were stupid as hell to go for the playoffs, go in their thread and you'll see them posting like now.

So I assume that would make you a better gm/president than Riley huh

 

[Malta]

So I assume that would make you a better gm/president than Riley huh

Neglect the fact Riley is 72 and some of the playoff push comes from him not having much time left as a GM/President breh.


If Riles were in his 50s they would have tanked.

 

[ogc163]

1) You're right, I had faith in Phil to get sh*t done, but guess what he hasn't, and people lose faith all the time.
2) You continue to call that man "fat Iverson" like it's some cool, creative diss towards Melo. But A) he probably has less body fat then 98% of the posters in this thread (including myself & I'm a slim dude). B) you act like being compared to Iverson is terrible, but AI was one the baddest dudes to play the game & is a Hall of Famer. Not to mention he had a HUGE impact on our generation coming up, and is STILL revered by his fans & peers alike. But I noticed only 2 types of people hated on AI's game and that is stat geeks & basketball "purists", and I didn't see much of that until I started posting here.

Grown heterosexual men really shouldn't be using the phrase "throwing shade", but that's another topic for another thread. Secondly, my opinions are horrible because I don't believe in tanking. Well if that's the case, I'll continue to be ignorant . Now would that make the Miami Heat organization ignorant as well since they were 11-30 at one point and decided to make a run instead of bottoming out & getting some young pieces to go with Whiteside & Winslow

Grown heterosexual men don't get emotional about basketball players they don't know either and threaten to leave threads on a bi-weekly basis because of said player. But that has been the case with you for several years running now.

No your opinions are horrible because they have been consistently wrong and you don't concede to counterarguments when evidence is provided. Furthermore, you get in your feelings and don't provide alternatives to rebuilding through the draft. Your horrible arguments and lack of logic have been displayed in instances outside of tanking.

At using the Miami Heat as an example, what they are doing is asinine and will hurt the organization in the long term. They are gonna get bumped in the first round and be stuck picking in the middle of the draft, they currently have no first tier star on their roster nor anyone who has the potential to become one. They are gonna be stuck picking in the teens, where the probability of them getting a player with great upside is relatively slim. I would not want the Knicks to do what they are doing.

 

[Wargames]

1) You're right, I had faith in Phil to get sh*t done, but guess what he hasn't, and people lose faith all the time.
2) You continue to call that man "fat Iverson" like it's some cool, creative diss towards Melo. But A) he probably has less body fat then 98% of the posters in this thread (including myself & I'm a slim dude). B) you act like being compared to Iverson is terrible, but AI was one the baddest dudes to play the game & is a Hall of Famer. Not to mention he had a HUGE impact on our generation coming up, and is STILL revered by his fans & peers alike. But I noticed only 2 types of people hated on AI's game and that is stat geeks & basketball "purists", and I didn't see much of that until I started posting here.

Grown heterosexual men really shouldn't be using the phrase "throwing shade", but that's another topic for another thread. Secondly, my opinions are horrible because I don't believe in tanking. Well if that's the case, I'll continue to be ignorant . Now would that make the Miami Heat organization ignorant as well since they were 11-30 at one point and decided to make a run instead of bottoming out & getting some young pieces to go with Whiteside & Winslow

The Heat's strength is FA and Riley. The Heat traded 2 first rounders (for old man Dragic) to build a win now Roster around Bosh and Wade and once that collapsed they don't know wtf they are doing. They are in A WAY WORSE position than the Knicks cause they ain't got shyt to look forward to but that Bosh money coming off the cap to build around those 2 players. Even though those two don't have the possibility to be a championship core unless they develop way beyond their current development path. The Heat are fukked for the foreseeable future.

If you look back one of the few things they Knicks are good at is Drafting. We ususally don't get credit it for it cause like a$$holes we think we're good at FA when historically speaking we suck at FA and at Trades. The reason I get annoyed at your "Melo before team" comments. Is cause it's still more of that mindset of we can fix this team when the reality is we need to scrap and build over.

This is like the Knicks drafted KD and we see some elite PG's in a later Draft who could be a star next to him, but you hear nah think about the equivalent of "Elton Brand" player on the roster (cause Melo career wise is closer to Brand than Iverson). He deserves a team that can get him more playoff burn. The cognitive dissonance is like those Red Necks who voted for Trump and are surprised that shyt is going south so quick. Nah if you put the emotions away and the need to feel like your opinion is more important than the facts you would realize the team sucks. We have our picks and a GM who is willing to not force a trade unless he gets what he wants (aka Rubio & a pick for Rose). Tanking isn't a bad thing, it's a long term strategy for improvement

 

[CantStop]

@ikbm frank is Rwandese. If y'all draft him, I get an auto pass to Stan the Knicks.

 

[Wargames]

This isn't the NFL draft where there tons of good players. There's only a handful of good players each NBA draft and an even less amount of potential great players

I'm not ever in favor of moving back in the nba draft

BPA would be Monk or Fox

I am not against BPA I just think they made it clear that the Tryangle offense and Defense were the 2 priorities. The Tryangle is passing, mid range shots, and BBIQ. Also the Kings have 2 later lottery picks and might have traded to move up to get somebody who has more potential but would suck for the Knicks if they were planning to use the Tryangle (like Tatum or Fox if he never fixes that shot)

My top 3 players in the draft (for the Tryangle) And Defense

Josh Jackson
Frank Ntilikina
Justin Jackson

Like even now if they could flip some of the guys on the roster to get another late lottery pick (I know they can't). I would say do it and get Justin Jackson. He's such a Phil pick, older player, good program (They just one the chip this year), more skill than physical, willing passer.