Making Melo a lifer and waving at Felton in Rikers: Knicks offseason thread

[The War Report]

You losers still trying to back tanking FOH!

You don't get it. In the NBA, you want to be either really good or really bad. Mediocrity gets you no where. Where are The Knicks going this year? You know how the 15 years of sustained success happened for The Spurs? Guess. Remember the last time The Knicks won the lottery?

 

[Wargames]

You don't get it. In the NBA, you want to be either really good or really bad. Mediocrity gets you no where. Where are The Knicks going this year? You know how the 15 years of sustained success happened for The Spurs? Guess. Remember the last time The Knicks won the lottery?

Here me out though, say the knicks are making a pitch to a FA like Marc Gasol. Wouldn't it in theory be a better look to go to him and say "hey the knicks are a playoff team with no legit number #2 option. Come to NY and the knicks will be a contender because you'll be the last piece" Instead of going to him and saying "hey the knicks sucked last year, but we got this lottery pick, leave a team the grizzlies who are at least a playoff treadmill team, and come to NY because your part of a rebuild to a winning a team".

In my mind thats what the Phil Jackson is thinking when he is trying to get the knicks to be a winning team. They aren't contenders but they should still strive to be considered a solid team first. If they can at least get that kind of reputation all the other perks to coming to NY for a max contract start to look a lot better.

Also lets not act like the knicks aren't decent to good drafters. They usually draft players that while not superstars, will stick around the league at least. So you have to assume they will find quality regardless of where they pick

 

[Victim of Racism]

I don't know why dudes think they'll be better this year because of that "Calderon is better than Felton" rationale. Dalembert is washed up and Bargnani doesn't even in belong in the league anymore. Not having a 1st rounder really hurt this year. Adreian Payne would of been nice.

NY won 54 games with Felton last season. José is not only better than Felton, José is an elite pg.

Sam has outplayed Tyson for the last 2 years and is durable (Tyson isn't). Sam has a jumper (Tyson doesn't). Claiming Sam is washed up is false.

Cole Alrich is a solid defender, rebounder, and rim protector. Not sure why you're claiming NY won't have much more solid Center play. Had NY ranked just 1 spot higher (19th instead of 20th) in points scored per game, they would've won many more games because they ranked 9th in points allowed per game. Not sure why you insist on propagating that their offense will remain 20th in points scored per game despite the personnel improvements they've made from the top on down.

Claiming Bargs doesn't belong in the league anymore is false. Bargs averaged 13ppg on 48.7% shooting from 2pt range before he went down, and didn't shoot enough 3's for his regression in that area to hurt the team. He played solid 1-on-1 defense, punking great players like D12 and others. He pulled down 5.3rpg. And before anyone tries to come for his rebounding this season, just know that Dirk (also a 7 footer) only pulled down 6.2rpg in 3 more minutes played than Bargs. NY was near the bottom in rebounding because so many of their bigs missed so many games. Only 4 players missed less than 16 games. To make matters worse, one of those 4 (Swish) was allowed to play 32 minutes per game when at least 12 of his minutes should've been given to Tim until he got healthy.

You sarcastically asked in another post where NY is going this season. With that logic, 29 teams should tank because they will all lose.

Shane Larkin is a 1st round pick (and a solid one at that). The only reason Cleanthony dropped to 2nd is because he's 23 and teams were not looking for NBA-ready players. They were looking for 19 and 20 year olds that they can mold. Trill Jackson said he wanted him to back up 'Melo, so that he can stop leading the league in minutes. This way, he can get back to his 4th quarter dominance, instead of always missing in the 4th because he no longer had any legs from playing so many minutes.

Tanking is soft. Tell a 54-win team who ended the season at 16-5 (http://msg.sportsdirectinc.com/bask...a/teams/pastresults/2013-2014/team404288.html) to tank, brehs/brehettes .

 

[DPresidential]

If every organization in the NBA was run by presidents like @I.V. , @The War Report & @Captain_Crunch ...

We'd have a tanking competition where more than half the league competes for losing the most games trying to get that no. 1 spot.

I could just hear Marv Albert now...

"Good evening NBA viewers, we have here a classic game between the Lakers & the Mavs, two teams that really weren't contenders, they each have averaged an amazing 47 intentionally missed shots per game throughout the season & Kobe is having an TMVP[Tank M V P] year w/ intentionally passing the ball to fans at a 10 turnovers per game, causing numerous lost games.

May the best team lose!"


FOH w/ that p*ssy shyt. Yall probably go to clubs on some "Guys, if we try to talk to the baddest chick in here, chances are we aren't getting the number. Statistically, our chances are better if we take the L & grab up the fat pissy drunk jawn in the corner w/ slider crumbs on her shirt, we have a higher probability of ending the night w/ a thot."

Go ahead guys... eat

 

[pimpineasy]

@I.V.

I don't really understand what you're saying. Are you saying superstars don't go and sign elsewhere? Or they don't get traded? Stars like KG, Ray Allen, Bosh, LeBron, Chris Paul, Kevin Love? Carmelo Anthony? They don't get moved? They don't sign elsewhere? Guys like Shaq, Tracy McGrady, Dwight Howard, James Harden, Grant Hill? They don't get traded or sign elsewhere?

You just started watching this summer?

Yo what are you talking about? Where did you get that out of what I posted? And then on top of all that crap you just generated, you're trying to play me like I don't watch ball?

It's not about "turning everything around" - Follow here:

This season is going to happen, and it's going to end - as all seasons do - and the the off season will begin.
- The knicks won't win a championship this season. They will be "Good" at best.
- Carmelo Agrees.
- So this coming off season is when they'll have a chance to add talent. Via free agency and the draft.
- If they were to lose this season, they would have a better chance, to add a better player through the draft. Statistically speaking.
- If they were to fight for a playoff spot and just get one (6-8) or just fail (8-10) they would have - against STATISTICALLY SPEAKING - a LOWER chance at getting better talent through the draft.
- When you hit free agency, it would be BETTER to have MORE TALENT especially MORE CHEAP TALENT.

That's it. I trust Phil and his staff to draft a decent player... I would rather give him access to REALLY GOOD players in the draft.

Again... if the knicks win this year, and they're good, and they're competitive. Hell, even if they are TERRIBLE (as they have been for most of the last decade and a half) I'll root for them. I'll watch games, I'll get upset when they blow it, I'll get excited when they're firing on all cylinders. I'm a fan.

But this argument has been about strategy, and having a better pick would be a better strategy. Point blank. You guys are sitting here crying like i'm BEGGING FOR THEM TO LOSE... no, I just know that if they implode, or if they're not that good, like they were not that good last year... we'll still be in an alright position for the time period that really matters... 2015 and beyond.

What this whole debate boils down to is that you don't believe in the talent on this roster. Sure I'd rather have a high pick. Who wouldn't. Of course a higher pick gives you access to more talent. That's common sense. But what would have to happen to get that lottery pick? Unlike you, a lot of us in here believe that there's enough talent on this team to make the playoffs. So in our eyes, to miss out on the playoffs and end up with a lottery pick means the Knicks would have to play like garbage and not play up to their potential. And I for one am not a supporter of the doing that. You think they're probably going to suck anyways which is why you're for them to tank.

And he has looked great in summer league. And he's dynamic, and a game-changing defender, and he's potentially going to be paired with the best big man prospect in a decade.

Yeah and he did all this in 1 year of college and the summer league. And he hasn't shown any type of offensive game outside of catching alley's and finishing on fast breaks. When Noel and Embiid finally do pair up on the court, they can end up being really good and scare the rest of the league. But we don't know for sure. And either way it's going to take time for them to develop. Philly has that time to wait. The Knicks don't.

Do a little research into how the minutes/games were managed in the second half of that Spurs season...

Breh, Robinson played in 6 games. If Melo only played in 6 games, we'd be terrible too.

It isn't. They should. Nobody is going to go out there and and lose on purpose.

So if we both agree on this, you should probably drop all the tank talk.

Ehh, pride and respect are overrated. This is a job for them, remember that. You're a fan... they're not.

It is to some extent, but to say that some players don't play with pride and self respect is bogus.

It's not absurd. It is an ideological plan... that yields LESS talent than a play where they lose and get a higher pick. But it's a fine plan.

And your plan is an ideological one... that yields a higher prospect (which doesn't automatically equate to a better NBA player) to a team that is worse than it was the year before. Not my type of plan.

i agree 1000% knicks fans are some of the most knowledgable but then turn out to be so delusional.........its the ultimate poaradox........... people thinking we are 1 piece away

 

[Victim of Racism]

@DPresidential is the funniest poster on here until proven otherwise. #ThatIsAll

 

[DPresidential]

@DPresidential is the funniest poster on here until proven otherwise. #ThatIsAll

Nah... You need to venture into other threads...There are some HILARIOUS people on this site...

Exhibit A:

melo's HGH consists of: Hamburgers, Gyros, and more Hamburgers

 

[Victim of Racism]

The Beard is ready...

 

[Cory MBA]

......I thought this was James Harden for like 10 seconds...

 

[I.V.]

If every organization in the NBA was run by presidents like @I.V. , @The War Report & @Captain_Crunch ...

The thing you don't realize is most successful teams ARE run by people that evaluate talent and cap space... and then plan accordingly.


Good teams are not run by delusional people, that always assume they're a top 3 team in the league.

 

[Victim of Racism]

How do y'all see NY if any or all of the following is true:

1. Cole gets significant minutes.

2. Bargs doesn't have another freak injury (he shot 48.7% from 2pt range before he went down and didn't shoot enough 3's to hurt the team. He played solid 1-on-1 defense, punking great players like D12 and others. He pulled down 5.3rpg in 29.9 minutes. And before anyone tries to come for his rebounding this season, just know that Dirk only pulled down 6.2rpg in 32.9 minutes). He improves from his significant weight loss and will be super-motivated being that he's in a contract year.

3. Early gets significant minutes backing up 'Melo.

4. Tim gets the minutes he deserves.

5. Larkin gets the back-up pg nod over Priggs (solid defender because of his athleticism and strength. More solid defender, passer, and shooter at 5'11 than Nate Robinson at 5'9).

6. Shump lives up to his potential of 10 to 15ppg and elite defense; only having dipped in production because he needed a full year to recover from his torn acl (he said it was his injury that limited him -- remember, Rose came back playing poorly too before he went down again). He will be super-motivated being that he's in a contract year.

7. Amar'e plays more than the 65 games he played last season (I personally am not counting on this because I'm not convinced either way). He will be super-motivated being that he's in a contract year.

 

[DPresidential]

The thing you don't realize is most successful teams ARE run by people that evaluate talent and cap space... and then plan accordingly.


Good teams are not run by delusional people, that always assume they're a top 3 team in the league.

However, ticket sales, sponsors in major markets & viability of competing are factors that owners, players & people who spend money at arenas do consider.

You're insulting anyone legitimately debating w/ you if you're claiming we are "top 3" in the league.

You are sitting here talking about tanking like those tactics would be taught in business school for sports management.

The whole NBA is based on the premise that tanking doesn't exist, even though we know it does in some fashion. Think about the fact that it's on the hush hush...that shows that that tactic is not respected.

 

[Victim of Racism]

......I thought this was James Harden for like 10 seconds...

Me too.

 

[I.V.]

However, ticket sales, sponsors in major markets & viability of competing are factors that owners, players & people who spend money at arenas do consider.

This is why we're not seeing eye to eye.


No. They don't. Sponsors still come in droves. And tickets get sold, and gear gets bought, and it goes on and on... BECAUSE the majority of fans are like you. They always think next year is going to be the year, regardless of how shytty last year was. Or the year before. Or the year before.

If losing hurt bottom lines across the league, teams would fold every season. Philly would have been sucked into the earth last year, and disappeared. But that's not what happened. Memphis sucked and kept a team. New Orleans and Charlotte sucked and kept teams.... the amount of teams that have been horrible for 5-10 years in a row FAR OUTNUMBERS the amount of teams that have moved. The goddamn Kings have been so garbage for so long AND THEY'RE GETTING A NEW ARENA. MJ outchea drafting adam morrison and bismack biyombo and whippin gerald henderson in practice and still has a team long enough to make it decent.

You flat-out DON'T GET how the business of the nba works. You don't get it. And honestly, neither do MOST children... so it really isn't that big a deal - EXCEPT: You're arguing as if you know how the business of a team works. You don't. I've worked in collegiate and pro sports. I've heard these very conversations happen. You play 2K in a replica melo jersey plus headband.

We are not peers in this discussion. I'm explaining to you how it works, you're banging your head against the wall and telling me you hear music.

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

KILL THAT TANKING TALK. It's getting real annoying coming into this thread everyday with that nonsense. Phil Jax isn't tanking, accept it, move on. If you want to see some tanking go watch the Sixers or Hawks.

Ya'll want to sit around waiting for a lottery pick to POTENTIALLY be good, instead of going out & signing an established star. This is NY we don't have time for that. I'd hate to say it, but I'm about to put some of you cats on ignore.