Looks like this is the last gen for physical game media

Gizmo_Duck

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most fukked up thing to me is how are digital and disk games the same at release?

I don’t believe there’s been any reasonable explanation for that other than greed.

Atleast with a disk I could trade it in or sell it and recoup some value.

Digital you just stuck. You should be able to sell digital games but then that would
Undercut them :mjpls:

At the same time, video game budgets have gone up to big blockbuster movie budgets and prices still haven't dramatically gone up
 

iceberg_is_on_fire

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At the same time, video game budgets have gone up to big blockbuster movie budgets and prices still haven't dramatically gone up

They've also included MTX, advertising in games, software suites that speed up development like speedtree or metahumans from ue5. The only thing that has definitively changed is art asset creation but even with that, we've but 'HD' for a while now. Not to mention, for an AAA game, marketing costs just as much, if not more than it costs for the game to make.

It's not so much that the cost has increases, it's the largesse to which these budgets are given and not enough people know how to nail shyt down on time. I'm a bean counter by day, I'd get them to act right if their P&Ls had to pass my desk.
 

MeachTheMonster

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most fukked up thing to me is how are digital and disk games the same at release?

I don’t believe there’s been any reasonable explanation for that other than greed.

Atleast with a disk I could trade it in or sell it and recoup some value.

Digital you just stuck. You should be able to sell digital games but then that would
Undercut them :mjpls:
Not sure if it’s still true but in the past it was retailers fighting to keep prices the same. They threatened to stop carrying and promoting the games if they were cheaper on digital.
 

Gizmo_Duck

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They've also included MTX, advertising in games, software suites that speed up development like speedtree or metahumans from ue5. The only thing that has definitively changed is art asset creation but even with that, we've but 'HD' for a while now. Not to mention, for an AAA game, marketing costs just as much, if not more than it costs for the game to make.

It's not so much that the cost has increases, it's the largesse to which these budgets are given and not enough people know how to nail shyt down on time. I'm a bean counter by day, I'd get them to act right if their P&Ls had to pass my desk.


And licensed music, world class voice and mo-cap actors for like 100’s of roles, multiple support studios, a entire department dedicated to accessibility, post-release content, etc.

The standards for making a AAA game today are far different than 15 years ago. Thats why Nintendo has such good margins on their games, they are like AA (or less) in budget and AAA in marketing
 

DTXwavey_02

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Damn I understand. But it’s always satisfying to look at my desk and see all the games I’ve bought over the years:mjcry:

I even still have copies of games I’ve gotten when I was in elementary school
 

iceberg_is_on_fire

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And licensed music, world class voice and mo-cap actors for like 100’s of roles, multiple support studios, a entire department dedicated to accessibility, post-release content, etc.

The standards for making a AAA game today are far different than 15 years ago. Thats why Nintendo has such good margins on their games, they are like AA (or less) in budget and AAA in marketing

You are describing what Take Two has to go through for GTA and 2K . This is not a one size fit all issue for everyone.

Not everyone has to worry about 15-20 radio stations of songs from Dr. Dre, Michael Jackson and Guns N' Roses. Nowadays for most, the goal is to get up and coming artists. Take Arkells' 'You Can Get It' from Forza Horizon 5. That's promo for them so I know the fee was negligible at best.

Not all games need David Hayter, Troy Baker or Nolan North either. Take this for example. Voice acting runs about $300 an hour. A line of script is about one a minute.

Skyrim has 60K lines of script. Equates to 1000 hours of dialogue so say $300000 for voice acting. Now, it was also in 5 languages including English so 1.5M using linear math

Starfield has 150K lines of script. Equates to 2500 hours of dialogue so say $750000 for voice acting. Presuming the same languages, that is 3.75M using linear math

There is a difference but in the grand scheme of things, the difference is static noise. 2.25M is not going to cause Microsoft to clutch their pearls and start checking the couches for pennies.

Motion Capture isn't not that expensive either. However, the larger publishers and developers don't cut costs. Yes, there is a difference between homebrew motion capture and professionally done stuff but most are in the middle. Nowadays, you can do this stuff from an iphone or android device.

This is perhaps the most famous example of getting around costs for motion capture.



They used their working studio and cameras bought from Amazon to make it work.

So, as I was saying. Not every game is bound by these issues. Nintendo games rarely have dialogue and I'd call a handful of them AAA affairs, by their standards. Microsoft owns all pieces of music for Halo because they have musicians on staff at 343. Sony and Microsoft both own motion capture studios.

Stop feeding into that line of bullshyt that these companies try to feed us.

This isn't just for gaming but my point is this. I've sat for years and with plentiful available data, pieced together what these companies tell us vs what I know about finance.

Do costs go up? Yes. Do most companies do enough other things in my opinion to offset those costs? Yes.

The problem is for a lot of the larger companies, that take 4+ years to build these games is that they don't go into it with a laser focus of how to get from point A to point B. From listening to fans vs trying new things, wasting years of development (Halo Infinite), Changing to a new game mid development. (The original Resident Evil 4 to Devil May Cry 1) Corporate and Leadership middling (Bioshock Infinite), these development studios burn through money, scrapping things that have already been created.
 

Gizmo_Duck

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You are describing what Take Two has to go through for GTA and 2K . This is not a one size fit all issue for everyone.

Not everyone has to worry about 15-20 radio stations of songs from Dr. Dre, Michael Jackson and Guns N' Roses. Nowadays for most, the goal is to get up and coming artists. Take Arkells' 'You Can Get It' from Forza Horizon 5. That's promo for them so I know the fee was negligible at best.

Not all games need David Hayter, Troy Baker or Nolan North either. Take this for example. Voice acting runs about $300 an hour. A line of script is about one a minute.

Skyrim has 60K lines of script. Equates to 1000 hours of dialogue so say $300000 for voice acting. Now, it was also in 5 languages including English so 1.5M using linear math

Starfield has 150K lines of script. Equates to 2500 hours of dialogue so say $750000 for voice acting. Presuming the same languages, that is 3.75M using linear math

There is a difference but in the grand scheme of things, the difference is static noise. 2.25M is not going to cause Microsoft to clutch their pearls and start checking the couches for pennies.

Motion Capture isn't not that expensive either. However, the larger publishers and developers don't cut costs. Yes, there is a difference between homebrew motion capture and professionally done stuff but most are in the middle. Nowadays, you can do this stuff from an iphone or android device.

This is perhaps the most famous example of getting around costs for motion capture.



They used their working studio and cameras bought from Amazon to make it work.

So, as I was saying. Not every game is bound by these issues. Nintendo games rarely have dialogue and I'd call a handful of them AAA affairs, by their standards. Microsoft owns all pieces of music for Halo because they have musicians on staff at 343. Sony and Microsoft both own motion capture studios.

Stop feeding into that line of bullshyt that these companies try to feed us.

This isn't just for gaming but my point is this. I've sat for years and with plentiful available data, pieced together what these companies tell us vs what I know about finance.

Do costs go up? Yes. Do most companies do enough other things in my opinion to offset those costs? Yes.

The problem is for a lot of the larger companies, that take 4+ years to build these games is that they don't go into it with a laser focus of how to get from point A to point B. From listening to fans vs trying new things, wasting years of development (Halo Infinite), Changing to a new game mid development. (The original Resident Evil 4 to Devil May Cry 1) Corporate and Leadership middling (Bioshock Infinite), these development studios burn through money, scrapping things that have already been created.

I remember someone saying, it’s a miracle that AAA games even get made these days, I think It might have been Cory Barlog or some other studio head. Theres a narrative created by fans that all games with good management are just smooth sailing, A-Z productions that if you build a solid development pipeline will just always work. In creative industries with 1000’s of people staffed and now even things like covid and production shortages, theres just a never ending list of variables that cause games to run over schedule. People get sick, asset creation from external studios get delayed, shortage of equipment, lately they can’t mo-cap due to covid, and not even just music but theres an endless list of things you need licensing for.

All those things factor into development cost and budgets. Even AA games require a lot of stuff, even without the fancy hollywood polish. Shawn Layden said that AAA games are only getting more and more expensive, you think a game running 20m over budget and the lack of shipping games to retailers in cheap plastic and pressing disc make up that?

There is no amount of cost cutting that is going to make up for the rising cost in game development outside of aggressive in-game micro transactions. For games that don’t offer that? Well we already see whats happening.

Having people buy games directly from the publishers is the biggest benefits of gaming going digital, as you now aren’t paying a middle man to supply you a key to play it
 

MikelArteta

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I'm old school I prefer physical. Copping a game on release date that you wanted beating it and playing then trading it in for store credit or selling on eBay for 70% of what you paid. Or on the other side waiting and copping a used game for 50% of what the price is.
 

Lambent55

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I don't know why people are happy about them going 100% digital. This a $$$ move, and we the ones getting got. (No more getting games for $5 bucks cause stores trying to get rid of their inventory)
 

Lambent55

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This is internet myths. This can’t/won’t happen.
If they decide you have done something ban worthy, they can take all of that away from you.



This goes for any business that sells digital goods you can't permanently download to use offline.
 
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