Liberal elites are Donald Trump's greatest allies

[Pressure]

Bernie is a career politician, with no blood on his hands, that have had a consistent approach and message to both the citizens and corporations. How about Killary?

What on earth are you talking about? I said nationally and he was a presidential candidate. So yea no.

Both Hillary and Trump were more popular candidates.

 

[ineedsleep212]

Both Hillary and Trump were more popular candidates.

False. Just because they won their primaries don't mean they were far more popular and they both began as known commodities for decades. Plus there were plenty of crossover votes.

Never forget the empty podiums and the dismissive presumptive talk by the media throughout the entire primary. I don't think I need to bring out the charts of the amount of coverage.

 

[FAH1223]

I'm the first person to say that the Democratic party sucks and is inept and often screws itself over and isn't much more than Republican-lite.

But I don't think Trump's win (or the general control the GOP has over the government) can be completely attributed to the Democrats incompetence. Truth be told, during the Obama era a lot of people got drawn into this alt-right movement (there was a thread about white guys getting radicalized online) and having a black president made that easy to do. Trump's rise is reflective of that. Keep in mind that Trump is a guy who spent years claiming the first black president wasn't born in America (for no real reason other than him being black) and most of the population was fine with this (at least fine enough with it to still vote for him).


So I guess my point is that, as bad as the Dem party is (and it is bad), at some point you have to admit that a lot of the reason Trump won is because a large part of the country likes him and his rhetoric.

You're right. At the same time, he didn't win more white people than Romney did. There was was some turnout increases from 2012 but the Dems didn't turnout the base in the critical states they always won. Voter suppression is big and the voting rights act being gutted was also big but thousands decided the white house and the senate races

This thread is tragically hilarious. The Hedges article isn't even being referenced. lol
I am a NYer and am hardcore Dem. My life isn't that dire compared to a lot of people in America. But yo this past presidential election HAS to be a wakeup call for us on the left or shyt is going to get 3rd world FOR REAL for all of us before it ever gets better. If we the Dems don't go hardcore progressive and let the corporate money go, end the wars on terrorism and propose a New Deal style domestic policy all is lost. We don't have time to start a new party/start from scratch. I don't care if it is new Dem reps or the current leaders, a drastic strategy change is needed. And yes, Bernie lost the primary he got less votes but he was right strategy wise.

exactly. History repeats and we are in a guilded age where the rich are as rich as they've ever been and the inequality levels are the worst since the 1920s and we know what happened after that.

 

[Pressure]

This thread is tragically hilarious. The Hedges article isn't even being referenced. lol
I am a NYer and am hardcore Dem. My life isn't that dire compared to a lot of people in America. But yo this past presidential election HAS to be a wakeup call for us on the left or shyt is going to get 3rd world FOR REAL for all of us before it ever gets better. If we the Dems don't go hardcore progressive and let the corporate money go, end the wars on terrorism and propose a New Deal style domestic policy all is lost. We don't have time to start a new party/start from scratch. I don't care if it is new Dem reps or the current leaders, a drastic strategy change is needed. And yes, Bernie lost the primary he got less votes but he was right strategy wise.

Because the article is bullshyt.

From its onset it uses the term "Trump's 'lies'" as thought he isn't a proven liar.

Attacks liberals for being anti trump.

Then complains that liberals aren't outraged about the CIA actually spying without making any reference to the fact that conservatives are also equally quiet regarding the leaked information and despite a hard crusade against leaks that affect him POTUS is completely quiet regarding leaks that attack his enemies. Even still, the information leaked actually caused him to double down and say we need to update or hacking capabilities because they are outdated.

So, yes, fukk this article because it's too busy attacking the fictional boogieman in the closet and not the monster that's actually in your bed.

Just more butt hurt progressives mad the Democratic Party isn't as progressive as they want despite overlooking the elephant in the room that's the country doesn't want to be that progressive.

 

[Pressure]

False. Just because they won their primaries don't mean they were far more popular and they both began as known commodities for decades. Plus there were plenty of crossover votes.

Never forget the empty podiums and the dismissive presumptive talk by the media throughout the entire primary. I don't think I need to bring out the charts of the amount of coverage.

Are kidding me? They literally went toe to toe and Bernie lost on popular votes. How was he more popular? By what metric? He lost the only one that mattered.

Hillary was more popular than Trump, but lost the election by the only metric that mattered to become president.

If we are going to criticize her for failing to defeat Trump then you all need to step up to the plate and criticize Bernie for being unable to defeat, as you say, the less popular candidate.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

exactly. History repeats and we are in a guilded age where the rich are as rich as they've ever been and the inequality levels are the worst since the 1920s and we know what happened after that.

You support a guy who gutted financial protections barely a month in office.

Suck it up

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Because the article is bullshyt.

From its onset it uses the term "Trump's 'lies'" as thought he isn't a proven liar.

Attacks liberals for being anti trump.

Then complains that liberals aren't outraged about the CIA actually spying without making any reference to the fact that conservatives are also equally quiet regarding the leaked information and despite a hard crusade against leaks that affect him POTUS is completely quiet regarding leaks that attack his enemies. Even still, the information leaked actually caused him to double down and say we need to update or hacking capabilities because they are outdated.

So, yes, fukk this article because it's too busy attacking the fictional boogieman in the closet and not the monster that's actually in your bed.

Just more butt hurt progressives mad the Democratic Party isn't as progressive as they want despite overlooking the elephant in the room that's the country doesn't want to be that progressive.

Can we concentrate on the main ideas of the article and not nitpick every detail we disagree with?
All politicians are anti-leak when it makes them look bad and pro-leak when it makes their enemies look bad.
Attacking Trump now with a Republican Congress is useless. They are not interested in holding him to task or impeaching him.Our side needs to get behind a winning strategy so we can you know win some elections so we can actually be effective and change things.
And the strategy can't be to be as or more right wing as right wingers. Dems are always going to be less convincing in that regard. We have to go the other way and convince the country we're right on the issues. Not just go along and act like right wingers are right but we're going to be nicer about it.

 

[ineedsleep212]

Are kidding me? They literally went toe to toe and Bernie lost on popular votes. How was he more popular? By what metric? He lost the only one that mattered.

Hillary was more popular than Trump, but lost the election by the only metric that mattered to become president.

If we are going to criticize her for failing to defeat Trump then you all need to step up to the plate and criticize Bernie for being unable to defeat, as you say, the less popular candidate.

I meant as in he wasn't as known as her but you actually had folks that voted for other Republicans during the primaries, plus the independents factor. The only true test of popularity would've been ranked voting open primaries. I'm not trying to make an issue out of this. Both Trump and Hillary were much bigger and known commodities. Bernie became more known and more popular over time. Y'all act like this was a level playing field. It doesn't matter though. A vote for one doesn't mean it's against the other.

Fam dodged my question cuz he can't find an answer. Look how much time Bernie is given now compared to when he was for a good part of the primaries.

 

[Mook]

"establishment shill"...sorry I don't wear fukking burlap underwear

You're a shill through and through. Your number 1 fault against Bernie was that he wasn't a democrat before running.

Your fakkit ass put party before anything like the fakkit shill you are.

 

[Alpha Male]

We literally have a billionaire reality star president.

This is disingenuous isn't it? Yes Trump dabbled in media and entertainment but didn't he make his name (and his fortune) in business and real estate? And also is this really uncharted territory? Didn't we have a president who had a career in ACTING?

Wait until Oprah or Jon Stewart runs in the future. I'm sure the democrats will have a perfectly rational reason for backing a television star by then.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You're a shill through and through. Your number 1 fault against Bernie was that he wasn't a democrat before running.

Your fakkit ass put party before anything like the fakkit shill you are.

Shill, Shill, Shill

Is that the best you've got?

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

what do you call a republican who votes like a democrat?

A true American because he votes according to the issue, not based on party affliliations

Because incrementalism is how shyt gets done.

White Bernie bros can blow up the whole system and ponder voting between Sanders and Trump, meanwhile we're out here trying to defend our mere humanity.

Like the breh said below, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with incrementalism, but it has and will continue to be used as an excuse why Black concerns and progressive concerns will never be fully addressed

I'm a proud Bernie bro

Hillary would have been much better for this country on the domestic front. I've criticize her and her campaign... they were incompetent. We all know it and the results show it. I never said she and Trump are the same.

Foreign policy would have been the same really.

Trump hasn't changed Obama era policy much at all, it is more reckless with his rhetoric and the actions in Yemen.

At the same time however, Hillary winning or losing isn't the ultimate issue. It's the lack of any kind of agents who want to initiate bigger progress rather than incrementalism. The elites abandoned the state level, the local level, falling asleep at the gerrymandering, no sense of urgency at all.

Dudes just refuse to accept how racist and sexist this country is.

I mean for fukks sakes, dudes were on some "fukk women" shyt ON TOP OF the overt racism here.

Ya'll want European utopias without acknowledging the USA is nothing like that.

No one said the Dems were perfect.

We said they were better.

Theres nothing I need to understand about them. They need to understand me.

Yeah, because he's from fukking Vermont. A state with no leverage, a state no one gives a fukk about, and a state that contributes functionally nothing to the country outside of POSSIBLY being a speed-bump to Canadian invasion

Seriously?

all this "elite" talk

As most of your post in this thread shows...

you are an elitist, like your fav candidate Hillary
You are a proud and an open elitist, when the consequences are low, like your fav candidate Hillary
You're willing to pretend to be concerned about racism, sexism and progressives, only when it helps your narrative, like your fav candidate Hillary

So your kinds' willingness to be dishonest, manipulative and an elitist are the major reason why your fav candidate Hillary lost and why the Dems are in disarray

Stop blaming Trump voters, independent voters, and Putin for why your fav candidate Hillary's defeat

Both Hillary and Trump were more popular candidates.

smh. To use the word popular to describe Hillary is a serious reach. More accurate words are controversial, polarizing, and distrustful

 

[BillBanneker]

This thread is tragically hilarious. The Hedges article isn't even being referenced. lol
I am a NYer and am hardcore Dem. My life isn't that dire compared to a lot of people in America. But yo this past presidential election HAS to be a wakeup call for us on the left or shyt is going to get 3rd world FOR REAL for all of us before it ever gets better. If we the Dems don't go hardcore progressive and let the corporate money go, end the wars on terrorism and propose a New Deal style domestic policy all is lost. We don't have time to start a new party/start from scratch. I don't care if it is new Dem reps or the current leaders, a drastic strategy change is needed. And yes, Bernie lost the primary he got less votes but he was right strategy wise.

Because the agent(s) in this thread want to turn this into a bernie bernie bernie show

 

[Pressure]

This is disingenuous isn't it? Yes Trump dabbled in media and entertainment but didn't he make his name (and his fortune) in business and real estate? And also is this really uncharted territory? Didn't we have a president who had a career in ACTING?

Wait until Oprah or Jon Stewart runs in the future. I'm sure the democrats will have a perfectly rational reason for backing a television star by then.

Not at all. Trump is known more for his celebrity than his business acumen.

 

[Pressure]

And the strategy can't be to be as or more right wing as right wingers. Dems are always going to be less convincing in that regard. We have to go the other way and convince the country we're right on the issues. Not just go along and act like right wingers are right but we're going to be nicer about it.

The strategy should be to create a message that resonates to the most people while still holding on to liberal principles. Nothing suggests the country as a majority wants extremely progressive representatives outside of the major coastal cities.

smh. To use the word popular to describe Hillary is a serious reach. More accurate words are controversial, polarizing

Did they go head to head for the nomination? Did she win? Any rational person can accept she was more popular even if you didn't like her more yourself.