Lets Talk About The Moral Basis of Capitalism

[theworldismine13]

I'm no Stalinist and I respect Lenin but I wouldn't say I'm a Leninist either or especially a Maoist for that matter. Authoritarianism isn't unique to "free" markets and Marx himself said in so many words that the state was an organ of class oppression. I'll say they made great strides for a war torn land in under a century under state socialism (or state capitalism, depending on who ya ask) also under constant threat/attack from Western capitalist powers.



I'd read these before blaming the USSR directly for those: http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger, 'The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933, SR 91.pdf & http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger, Natural Disaster and Human Actions.pdf

Put simply, the problem is famine should not occur in this time (and others pretty far back many will argue) with the capacity to produce more than enough for everyone, but yet it still does because everyone cannot afford food and that food is hoarded to sell for profit or wasted. Socialism seeks to remove profit from the equation and end this problem forever.
Maas had an interesting passage in A Case for Socialism (p. 61-63) - I'll quote it in full if you feel like reading:

[/QUOTE]

so in other words you want to avoid the fact that millions of people died of starvation in an effort "to remove profit from the equation"

and that you think the overabundance of food caused by capitalism is reason to bring back a system that caused starvation of millions?

anywhere you go in this planet where you see people starving what you will find is that there is a lack of capitalism, and wherever you go in this world where there is capitalism you see an overabundance of food

so you are basically promoting an ideology that will cause black people to starve to death

 

[theworldismine13]

lets see what excuse the Marxists have for this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

According to the China Statistical Yearbook (1984), crop production decreased from 200 million tons (1958) to 143.5 million tons (1960). Due to lack of food and incentive to marry at that point in time, the population was about 658,590,000 in 1961, about 13,480,000 less than the population of 1959. Birth rate decreased from 2.922% (1958) to 2.086% (1960) and death rate increased from 1.198% (1958) to 2.543% (1960), while the average numbers for 1962–1965 are about 4% and 1%, respectively.

The officially reported death rates show much more dramatic increases in a number of provinces and counties. In Sichuan province, the most populous province in China, for example, the government reported 11 million deaths out of the average population of about 70 million during 1958–1961, one death in every seven people.[citation needed] InHuaibin County, Henan province, the government reported 102 thousand deaths out of a population of 378 thousand in 1960. On the national level, the official statistics imply about 15 million so-called "excess deaths" or "abnormal deaths", most of them resulting from starvation.[citation needed]

hmmmmm

Mao Zedong, chairman of the Chinese communist party, introduced drastic changes in farming which prohibited farm ownership. Failure to abide by the policies led to persecution. The social pressure imposed on the citizens in terms of farming and business, which the government controlled, led to state instability. Owing to the laws passed during the period and Great Leap Forward during 1958–1962, according to government statistics, about 36 million people died in this period.[7]

Socialism seeks to remove profit from the equation and end this problem forever.

so black people should follow Mao?

 

[Madvillain]

so in other words you want to avoid the fact that millions of people died of starvation in an effort "to remove profit from the equation"

and that you think the overabundance of food caused by capitalism is reason to bring back a system that caused starvation of millions?

Again, you're being disingenuous. I've already stated those famines weren't the direct result of the USSR. Marxism also =/= Maoism, Leninism, Stalinism. All 3 have revised Marx and Engels in key areas. Your argument also assumes the USSR stands as the best possible socialist form of organizing government and goods. That's asinine and something I don't agree with. I've stated I'm not a Stalinist. All I said was for the circumstances, they were able to do a lot of great things. You're reaching and putting up all kinds of strawmen.

anywhere you go in this planet where you see people starving what you will find is that there is a lack of capitalism, and wherever you go in this world where there is capitalism you see an overabundance of food

This is one of the worst and most ill-informed posts I've ever seen on the Internet.

and again capitalism doesnt care about morality, its amoral

a system that encourages artificial scarcity when people are starving has already taken its clear stance on morality

 

[theworldismine13]

Again, you're being disingenuous. I've already stated those famines weren't the direct result of the USSR. Marxism also =/= Maoism, Leninism, Stalinism. All 3 have revised Marx and Engels in key areas. Your argument also assumes the USSR stands as the best possible socialist form of organizing government and goods. That's asinine and something I don't agree with. I've stated I'm not a Stalinist. All I said was for the circumstances, they were able to do a lot of great things. You're reaching and putting up all kinds of strawmen.


This is one of the worst and most ill-informed posts I've ever seen on the Internet.

yeah, so we are back to this again
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

you can make all the denials you want, but the fact is you are pushing a bullshyt ideology

 

[theworldismine13]

 

[Madvillain]

lets see what excuse the Marxists have for this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine



hmmmmm







so black people should follow Mao?

You're not even reading anymore.

 

[theworldismine13]

You're not even reading anymore.

i read everything you posted, you are promoting socialism and are denying that millions of people have died due to socialism even though history clearly shows that socialism caused millions of russians and chinese to starve

so apparently you are promoting a new form of socialism without the starvation part

what did i miss?

 

[Madvillain]

i read everything you posted, you are promoting socialism and are denying that millions of people have died due to socialism

what did i miss?

You haven't. You're bringing up Mao when I haven't advocated Maoism and have actually said I disagree with that. I also debunked the 32-33 famine myth you pushed, but also said I disagree with his rule. I've pretty much indicated I'm not a statist, either. I can say they did make leaps given the circumstances, but also disagree a great deal with how they organized. You also haven't responded to the fact the profit motive and grain trade under capitalism create a Holocaust's worth of child famine yearly. All I've done was criticize the organization of basic necessities like food for profit over need and say a system that emphasizes the inverse would do a great deal to fixing the aforementioned problem. Everything else you responded was a reach and an attempt to link the mistakes of Mao to say a society where basic necessities are organized moreso around need can't work. I'm sorry, but you haven't really shot anything down by crying "LOL MAO KILLED A LOT OF PPL". There's a (relatively) sizable tendency of communists who don't agree with Mao or Stalin. You do not understand the things you are arguing against.
And actually the Panthers were generally Maoist, although some will try and say Newton was moving closer towards anarchism later on.

 

[theworldismine13]

You haven't. You're bringing up Mao when I haven't advocated Maoism and have actually said I disagree with that. I also debunked the 32-33 famine myth you pushed, but also said I disagree with his rule. I've pretty much indicated I'm not a statist, either. I can say they did make leaps given the circumstances, but also disagree a great deal with how they organized. You also haven't responded to the fact the profit motive and grain trade under capitalism create a Holocaust's worth of child famine yearly. All I've done was criticize the organization of basic necessities like food for profit over need and say a system that emphasizes the inverse would do a great deal to fixing the aforementioned problem. Everything else you responded was a reach and an attempt to link the mistakes of Mao to say a society where basic necessities are organized moreso around need can't work. I'm sorry, but you haven't really shot anything down by crying "LOL MAO KILLED A LOT OF PPL". There's a (relatively) sizable tendency of communists who don't agree with Mao or Stalin. You do not understand the things you are arguing against.
And actually the Panthers were generally Maoist, although some will try and say Newton was moving closer towards anarchism later on.

So you are basically advocating a form of socialism without the starvation part, what did I get wrong?

You didn't debunk any myth, millions of people starved due to socialist policies, that is indisputable, you rambling about different types of socialism which you find more acceptable is not going to bring those people back to life

I'm still waiting for you to name the place and time where people starved to death due to capitalism

And a lot of black activists were socialist, communist etc and they were wrong, they made the same mistake people in this thread are making, they assume that anything that opposes white american capitalism must be good for black people, it turned out they were wrong

 

[Madvillain]

I'm still waiting for you to name the place and time where people starved to death due to capitalism

Again, you're not reading.

 

[theworldismine13]

Again, you're not reading.

All I read was some comment about food scarcity, name the names of the places where food scarcity exists, why can't you answer basic questions

Why are you so scared to name places

 

[JahFocus CS]

Again, you're not reading.

I have them both on block but I can only imagine you're talking about Poitier or theworldismine13.

 

[Kritic]

The Moral Basis Of Capitalism

the LAWFUL "de jure Grand JURY" of 23, 25 free men of the Shire, Must meet, take evidence, vote to indict, and ISSUE a TRUE BILL OF INDICTMENT. THAT is what is missing from from this video. Do it RIGHT, Roger may have, but he should have given the SHERIFF of the Shire [ or county ] first option to come with the crowd and effectuate the ARREST. IF the Sheriff refuses, then Roger can have a Shire, or County Militia, ARMED , go arrest the JUDGE, and take him to the jail for booking. Of course, the Arrested Judge, has a right to bail, to see the TRUE BILL of INDICTMENT.
several dozen filed into the Treasonous Judges courtroom, and announced the ARREST of the sitting Treasonous JUDGE, 2 men moved forward to seize the judge and Bailiffs interfere with the Lawful Arrest under Section 61 of the Magna Carta.




Shout out to the Uk folks. Them the people. United People.

We couldn't this shyt off here with different races, nsa and police having bigger guns.. they're owned by the "elite".

meanwhile in amerikkka


"a group of angry white men controlled by corporations"
@Truth200 @Blackking @theworldismine13

 

[theworldismine13]

The Moral Basis Of Capitalism

the LAWFUL "de jure Grand JURY" of 23, 25 free men of the Shire, Must meet, take evidence, vote to indict, and ISSUE a TRUE BILL OF INDICTMENT. THAT is what is missing from from this video. Do it RIGHT, Roger may have, but he should have given the SHERIFF of the Shire [ or county ] first option to come with the crowd and effectuate the ARREST. IF the Sheriff refuses, then Roger can have a Shire, or County Militia, ARMED , go arrest the JUDGE, and take him to the jail for booking. Of course, the Arrested Judge, has a right to bail, to see the TRUE BILL of INDICTMENT.
several dozen filed into the Treasonous Judges courtroom, and announced the ARREST of the sitting Treasonous JUDGE, 2 men moved forward to seize the judge and Bailiffs interfere with the Lawful Arrest under Section 61 of the Magna Carta.




Shout out to the Uk folks. Them the people. United People.

We couldn't this shyt off here with different races, nsa and police having bigger guns.. they're owned by the "elite".

meanwhile in amerikkka


"a group of angry white men controlled by corporations"
@Truth200 @Blackking @theworldismine13

Im not following your point, are you trying to suggest that the uk isn't capitalist?

And why are you posting something I already posted http://www.thecoli.com/threads/an-a...ecretive-nature-of-alec.321831/#post-13566026

I wouldn't disagree that corporations have grown too powerful in the us

 

[Drip Bayless]

Dudes in here dont understand what capitalism is
Automation is the end goal of a capitalist society, a robot is literally the perfect worker.
Edit: Take back what I said, dudes in here kicking this knowledge
What books would you guys advise I read to better understand the economic systems