The oppression present in other systems are automatically attributed to people within/or at the top of the system, while capitalist oppression is deemed inherent in the system itself...
The podcast needs this.
Lets Talk About The Moral Basis of Capitalism
- Thread starter Blackking
- Start date
The oppression present in other systems are automatically attributed to people within/or at the top of the system, while capitalist oppression is deemed inherent in the system itself...The podcast needs this.
Madvillain
Pro
Eh, I wouldn't say that either. James Carr or Chris Booker, for example will tell you that the Panthers actually collapsed in part due to inherent contradictions within (these guys did a lot of theoretical work, too) organizing principles, for example. I personally think the USSR had some inherent contradictions surrounding both authoritarianism and capitalism that they themselves ended up refusing to solve (remember, IMO they never left state capitalism), which actually deepened the further they were removed from the principles of the Revolution.
I'm not here to get boxed into arguing "actually existing socialism" as THE metric, like you right-wingers keep trying to. They made significant progress given the short time period, WWI & post-revolutionary period and the Cold War. It's important to note that because it still shows some promise in certain areas between us and them from their rise to fall.
But there's almost too many things to name that they could have done better. It's funny an aside comment pretty much has been pounced upon so much. I'll say this clearly: there are far better alternatives.
Still, a lot of you seem to struggle immensely with divorcing economics that would move us on a road towards socialism and authoritarianism, and with "actually existing socialism" and different ways of moving towards communism in the "safest" (for lack of a better word) possible manner.
The fact is capitalism will inherently always create conflict and contradictions for itself, whether it be under a fascist banner, welfare-styled, laissez-faire or something different.
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I have no problem taking other people's money and exploiting a hack in the social and financial void that exists.
I don't see why black people have to inherently feel opposed to this.
I don't see why black people have to inherently feel opposed to this.
The Moral Basis Of Capitalism
the LAWFUL "de jure Grand JURY" of 23, 25 free men of the Shire, Must meet, take evidence, vote to indict, and ISSUE a TRUE BILL OF INDICTMENT. THAT is what is missing from from this video. Do it RIGHT, Roger may have, but he should have given the SHERIFF of the Shire [ or county ] first option to come with the crowd and effectuate the ARREST. IF the Sheriff refuses, then Roger can have a Shire, or County Militia, ARMED , go arrest the JUDGE, and take him to the jail for booking. Of course, the Arrested Judge, has a right to bail, to see the TRUE BILL of INDICTMENT.
several dozen filed into the Treasonous Judges courtroom, and announced the ARREST of the sitting Treasonous JUDGE, 2 men moved forward to seize the judge and Bailiffs interfere with the Lawful Arrest under Section 61 of the Magna Carta.
Shout out to the Uk folks. Them the people. United People.
We couldn't this shyt off here with different races, nsa and police having bigger guns.. they're owned by the "elite".
meanwhile in amerikkka
"a group of angry white men controlled by corporations"
@Truth200 @Blackking @theworldismine13
I don't see a problem with this.
I only see opportunity for black people to do the same thing
1) Do you have any hard evidence to support this claim that what you are suggesting is objectively "better". Has said system been successfully implemented on a large scale? If so where and why isn't it being practiced today?
2) You have yet to explain why this is a move in the right direction, and why we shouldn't struggle/resist it...
Centrally planned govt.'s have a track record that speaks for itself... and i'm am 'struggling' to understand how you can so easily dismiss its past failures...
Moreover, as a minority under a state that hates/oppresses minorities, why would I want to increase control/reach of the state? and why would I trust that a classless, communist society is even viable in todays racially divided world?
Madvillain
Pro
Socialism =/= statism. It's like I'm banging my head against a wall here. Leave this weird left-right paradigm for a sec.
Profits. Control. The West's long history of suppressing leftist movements. Still, you see bits of labor's successes in things such as the movement to reduce labor hours (to which each time there was a victory, capitalists introduced improved machinery, just as Marx predicted), which really peaked before WW2.
Larger than local/regional? No. But this doesn't mean we shouldn't try and move in that direction. And it's VERY silly to ignore the upper hand capital has/has had in creating external conflict, beating proletarian attempts down.
"Jobs", food, energy - all artificially kept scarce to keep profit high. (This is immoral to answer the thread, btw and actually limits the individual freedom you libertarians love so much). Contrast this with how bloated hours of labor are in modern times, and how many things that need to be done that never or take forever to get done because of the profit motive.
To run with the food/famine bit, if we have enough food already and the capacity to rid world hunger (abundance), (you can do this with housing too)
and the biggest roadblock is prices/artificial scarcity...
why not remove profit from the equation? Why not begin reduce labor hours to zero, embracing automation, ridding ourselves of make-work and start moving people into more meaningful labor and self-organized democratic workplaces and industries? Work that needs to be done =/= profitable work. Ending material poverty means the end of crimes of isolation and necessity, which is a move towards abolishing police and prisons (oppressive institutions that have to exist as long as capitalism exists). We can work towards ending resource scarcity that drives war and climate change. By this point, how much purpose does a state (another oppressive institution) really have left? I don't have the perfect conception of post-capitalist society, but I think we'd do far better to move there than towards this imperfect capitalist society that places profit over need. Capitalism will many of these ends on its own (like feudalism eventually gave rise to capitalism) - but very slowly, painfully and because of climate change, we may not see to the end of it. But why not accelerate into the 5th mode of production? I haven't really even dug down to frame this in a racial sense, but I'm sure you can see how the Global South is faring under this mode, even though with modern technology and distribution means there's really no excuse. I might have a better answer later though honestly.
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1. While I'm not opposed to doing away with the state, it isnt going anywhere... period.
2. ... things that aren't going anywhere, ever. Especially the latter.
3. So we're comparing an economic theory to a fully implemented model... this needs to be clear. And i for one am never shocked when people are able to imagine something better than what we have... in fact I'd be shocked if you couldnt. That said we need to look at why it is that attempts at centrally planned govt.s have always given way to capitalism.
4. I'd argue that capitalism is removing scarcity of resources at a faster pace than "socialism" would... and full automation IMO is a good thing.
Do me a favor and stop using the word "oppression"
the united states is an oligarchy. this isn't capitalism.
the federal reserve jews own and run all this shyt. and we're slaves in their rhyme book..
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
the united states is an oligarchy. this isn't capitalism.
the federal reserve jews own and run all this shyt. and we're slaves in their rhyme book..
im not sure if there is any system that doesnt turn into an oligarchy eventually, thats why i think the focus has to be individual rights and economic rights, those are the things that counteract monopolizing forces
but i think thats a separate argument as to whether black people should adopt capitalism, i strongly dispute the notion that black people have a particular responsibility to make the world a better place, we have a responsibility to put ourselves in dominating position regardless of what the system is
Madvillain
Pro
Can't say I really buy the "it's just not gonna ever happen" angle. I need something more than that. Especially when the movement is to render these things (such as the state, money, etc.) redundant and useless. Then again, I can imagine why a libertarian deep down just says "not possible".
Glad to see we agree here
But why not accelerate society towards full automation while providing because we have the capacity to while also working to guard against displacement? And you think capitalism survives that, renewables, the continuing trends of worker militancy, etc? When wages and prices fall to zero?
I, again, agree; the Leninists will have my head for this, but another problem with Soviet econ that has been far too pervasive amongst the Left.
You have an idea of the future that's imaginative, no? The difference is this one actually seeks means of removing oppressive structures by removing their purpose, rather than throwing our hands up and resigning ourselves to them forever, pushing the "little guy" lower and lower.
I think we all have a special responsibility to make the world a better place and work towards a society where there is no oppression (or domination) of one by another. I also think Blacks, because of the unique nature of our oppression, will end up leading the way.
Glad to see we agree here
But why not accelerate society towards full automation while providing because we have the capacity to while also working to guard against displacement? And you think capitalism survives that, renewables, the continuing trends of worker militancy, etc? When wages and prices fall to zero?I, again, agree; the Leninists will have my head for this, but another problem with Soviet econ that has been far too pervasive amongst the Left.
You have an idea of the future that's imaginative, no? The difference is this one actually seeks means of removing oppressive structures by removing their purpose, rather than throwing our hands up and resigning ourselves to them forever, pushing the "little guy" lower and lower.
I think we all have a special responsibility to make the world a better place and work towards a society where there is no oppression (or domination) of one by another. I also think Blacks, because of the unique nature of our oppression, will end up leading the way.
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
i agree that human individuals should strive to make the world a better place, im not against that
im against putting an onus on the african disapora to make the world a better place or making the african disapora the pawns or foot soldiers or guinea pigs in any such efforts
the united states is an oligarchy. this isn't capitalism.
the federal reserve jews own and run all this shyt. and we're slaves in their rhyme book..
JahFocus CS
Get It How You Get It
the united states is an oligarchy. this isn't capitalism.
the federal reserve jews own and run all this shyt. and we're slaves in their rhyme book..
