Lets not forget that Kobe Bryant won 2 championships with a sidekick worse than Kevin Love

[Swagnificent]

EDIT: I see what you’re trying to do.

That's why you see these Bron stans desperately trying to change the subject. They know they look an L on this one.

 

[Swagnificent]

And Kobe has benefitted from horry, fisher, artest, gasol etc,

his 2010 title was him getting saved in every round from bricks and airballs and shots from other teammates that sealed games/series so

Kobe took SIGNIFICANTLY less talent to 2 rings in 2009 and 2010 than LeBron did for his 3 rings. He had Wade and Bosh in Miami and then Kyrie and Love in Cleveland.

All 4 of those "sidekicks" were better than Gasol (who was Kobe's #2). And I haven't even brought up Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Udonis Haslem, Mario Chalmers, and others who were also better role players than Kobe ever played with.

LeBron in Miami and Cleveland had 2 all-stars next to him better than Gasol each time as well as better role players off the bench and he still accomplished less than Kobe.

 

[PS5 Pro]

LMAO NONE OF THEM PLAYERS WAS ALL-STARS..ALL ROLE PLAYERS. AND BYNUM WAS INJURED. MATT BARNES? DO U EVEN KNOW WHAT U SAYIN??

LEBRON PLAYED WITH WADE, BOSH, ALLEN, BATTIER, HASLEM, MILLER..THEN WITH KYRIE, LOVE, SMITH, TRISTAN, WAITERS, FRYE, SHUMPERT .. WHICH TEAMS WITOUT THE SUPERSTAR LOOKS BETTER? THINK ABOUT IT WEIRDO

Wade and Bosh was on the downward direction career wise, Allan was JJ Reddikk status with Miami. Kyrie/waiters couldn't make the playoffs in the east, the other players were not all-star players ever either but I guess that doesn't matter? You're odd...

Breh

Wade/Bosh/Ray//battier/mike miller/chambers/Kyrie/Love weren’t solid teammates for him over the past 6 or 7 years? This man has walked into every finals this decade except 2015 with atleast 2 all stars and a solid squad since 2012. bigger names than the 08-10 lakers.

That Heat team should of 3 peated If they won in 2011 and y’all nikkas wouldn’t being saying this mess

The wade you see today is the wade LeBron had to work with. Bosh was done, channing Frye status. Pat Riely ghost riding the coaching whip is what pushed that organization over the top. LeBron will and has told you that himself. Love has been average at best in Cleveland, any player should put up numbers playing with LeBron, love isn't and its not LeBron's fault. Love doesn't have that mamba in him

This thread isn't about Gasol or Love dummy. Its about exposing the hypocrisy of LeBron stans. I only used Gasol and Love as tools.

I know Gasol is a great player. But the numbers said Kevin Love was better. I'm putting the pressure on Bron stans in this thread to finally admit that stats aren't everything. And that sometimes they can make an inferior player like Kevin Love look much better than a guy like Pau Gasol that is 10x the player he is.

Bron stans however are either not smart enough to understand this or have all together ignored this thread because of the philosophical bind it puts them. If they have to disavow stats then there goes their primary argument for why LeBron is better than Kobe. If they don't disavow stats then they have to accept LeBron's 3rd option for many years was better than Kobe's 2nd option and still accomplished less.

Its a lose/lose proposition for them. Which is why so many have avoided this thread.

You making up strawmen stat LeBron fans bruh LeBron makes players better, been that way since he was in high school, we all watched his games on ESPN at the time (we didn't see Kobe's tho) and then we were all witnesses when he entered the league, balled out vs Sacramento. When Kobe came in, he was babied like if he had fragile nuts (this was long before Chris Child's tee'd off on his grill piece) I recall Kobe shooting back to back to back air balls, Nick the slick had to hold LA down cuz Kobe wasn't LeBron

Kobe trying to emulate Jordan thought disrespecting teammates was cool, but he isn't Jordan. He doesn't smoke cigars and drink and gamble. He speaks/snitches in like 5 languages fluently. This attitude rubbed players the wrong way and Kobe failed to make the playoffs a bunch of times because he's not LeBron. Without Phil Jackson Kobe is Mitch Richmond status. Nobody wanted to play with him the last half of his career, and because of that the team til this day is struggling to land any notable free agents.

And yet y'all say LeBron not Kobe will come save you next season

Spoiler

or maybe it'll be Paul George

 

[Swagnificent]

Wade and Bosh was on the downward direction career wise, Allan was JJ Reddikk status with Miami. Kyrie/waiters couldn't make the playoffs in the east, the other players were not all-star players ever either but I guess that doesn't matter? You're odd...

The wade you see today is the wade LeBron had to work with. Bosh was done, channing Frye status. Pat Riely ghost riding the coaching whip is what pushed that organization over the top. LeBron will and has told you that himself. Love has been average at best in Cleveland, any player should put up numbers playing with LeBron, love isn't and its not LeBron's fault. Love doesn't have that mamba in him

You making up strawmen stat LeBron fans bruh LeBron makes players better, been that way since he was in high school, we all watched his games on ESPN at the time (we didn't see Kobe's tho) and then we were all witnesses when he entered the league, balled out vs Sacramento. When Kobe came in, he was babied like if he had fragile nuts (this was long before Chris Child's tee'd off on his grill piece) I recall Kobe shooting back to back to back air balls, Nick the slick had to hold LA down cuz Kobe wasn't LeBron

Kobe trying to emulate Jordan thought disrespecting teammates was cool, but he isn't Jordan. He doesn't smoke cigars and drink and gamble. He speaks/snitches in like 5 languages fluently. This attitude rubbed players the wrong way and Kobe failed to make the playoffs a bunch of times because he's not LeBron. Without Phil Jackson Kobe is Mitch Richmond status. Nobody wanted to play with him the last half of his career, and because of that the team til this day is struggling to land any notable free agents.

And yet y'all say LeBron not Kobe will come save you next season

Spoiler

or maybe it'll be Paul George

First of all, I'm not a Lakers fan so don't include me in that. I only root for players. Don't care about teams.

Now onto the more important point. You claim LeBron makes players better. PROVE IT. People have kept this myth alive without any evidence to support it. Every great player that has come to play with LeBron has seen their numbers suffer (except for Kyrie last year). Guys like Chris Bosh and Kevin Love were being discussed as potentially the best PF in the league before they teammed up with LeBron. After LeBron people were questioning whether they were even all-stars and blaming them for the team's failures in the playoffs because they weren't putting up the numbers they were used to putting up. If LeBron makes players around him better, why is it that everytime his team's fail they blame his teammates. In particular his former All-NBA big men?

LeBron does not make players around him better. He makes role players that are just catch and shoot 3-point shooters better. However, for guys like Chris Bosh and Kevin Love, he's a detriment to their games. Because LeBron always wants to play his style of ball (which is dominating the ball and having shooters on the floor to keep the paint open), big men who play with him will see their play suffer. Guys like D-Wade that play like LeBron also see their play suffer alongside LeBron. LeBron is not as good as Kobe at making players better. Just because Kobe doesn't dominate the ball and rack up empty assists doesn't mean he isn't making players around him better. Real basketball heads know that assists aren't proof you make those around you better. The real proof comes from whether your teammates enjoy career seasons playing alongside you as well as seeing their FG% increase. And that's what you see with players who play with Kobe. They see their scoring efficiency increase because the defense is more focused on them than Kobe.

LeBron does not make his teammates better like Kobe. Pau Gasol and Kevin Love are clear evidence of that. Kobe made Pau Gasol into a Hall of Famer while LeBron James has taken Kevin Love out of the Hall of Fame.

 

[dem bath salts]

The takes on both sides in this thread

 

[ManBearPig]

Kobe took SIGNIFICANTLY less talent to 2 rings in 2009 and 2010 than LeBron did for his 3 rings. He had Wade and Bosh in Miami and then Kyrie and Love in Cleveland.

All 4 of those "sidekicks" were better than Gasol (who was Kobe's #2). And I haven't even brought up Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Udonis Haslem, Mario Chalmers, and others who were also better role players than Kobe ever played with.

LeBron in Miami and Cleveland had 2 all-stars next to him better than Gasol each time as well as better role players off the bench and he still accomplished less than Kobe.

Look who the lakers played in those finals that they won

09 magic: below-average finals team, led by a 23 year old who pau Gasol locked down but he ain't better than love

10 celtics: won 50 games, their offense was extremely inefficient due to their age, it took the lakers an injury to perkins and a miracle performance from Ron Artest to seal the victory.

Thats only 2,titles as the main option. Lebron has 3 against a team a thunder team that was hella deep, a Spurs team that won't it the following year, and a 73 win warriors.

3 fmvps > 2
4 mvps > 1
Lebron > kobe

 

[Supercoolmayo]

Playoff Swagnificent putting a 40 point shytthread to win WPOTY

 

[Swagnificent]

Look who the lakers played in those finals that they won

09 magic: below-average finals team, led by a 23 year old who pau Gasol locked down but he ain't better than love

10 celtics: won 50 games, their offense was extremely inefficient due to their age, it took the lakers an injury to perkins and a miracle performance from Ron Artest to seal the victory.

Thats only 2,titles as the main option. Lebron has 3 against a team a thunder team that was hella deep, a Spurs team that won't it the following year, and a 73 win warriors.

3 fmvps > 2
4 mvps > 1
Lebron > kobe

Who did both those teams beat to reach the finals? OH YEAH. 60+ win Cavs teams led by your man LeBron James.

The 2009 Magic team was not that good. But the 2010 Celtics team was great. They just did the old guy routine and didn't take the regular season seriously. In the playoffs, they turned back into that team in 2008 that won 66 games. They were lights out defensively. And they were deep as fukk.

Also they had 4 Hall of Famers that year (same as the 2017 Warriors). Rondo was playing at a HOF level. And they had KG, Pierce, and Allen. All 3 are first-ballot Hall of Famers. That 2010 Celtics team is better than any team LeBron has ever faced in the NBA finals. EVER.

 

[ManBearPig]

Who did both those teams beat to reach the finals? OH YEAH. 60+ win Cavs teams led by your man LeBron James.

The 2009 Magic team was not that good. But the 2010 Celtics team was great. They just did the old guy routine and didn't take the regular season seriously. In the playoffs, they turned back into that team in 2008 that won 66 games. They were lights out defensively. And they were deep as fukk.

Also they had 4 Hall of Famers that year (same as the 2017 Warriors). Rondo was playing at a HOF level. And they had KG, Pierce, and Allen. All 3 are first-ballot Hall of Famers. That 2010 Celtics team is better than any team LeBron has ever faced in the NBA finals. EVER.

KG wasnt playing like a HOFer in 2010. If he was then dont u think he would grab more than 3 rebounds in game 7. He was 34 years old coming back from an injury that endee his prime the year before.

Ray Allen had 1 good game the whole series. His best days were behind him as well.

Curry and Durant on the other hand in their 20s....

 

[Ben.]

What interesting about this thread is the smart Bron stans like @Draje and @The Dankster have avoided this thread. I guess this proves there is no logical comeback anyone can make to the points I made in this thread without becoming a HYPOCRITE.

The only Bron stans who have responded in this thread are the less intelligent ones. And they've not been smart enough to understand the argument being made hence retarded posts like this one.

Breh read the thread over again and try to understand what I'm saying. Then come back with a cogent counter argument or shut the hell up.

Ok I see what you're trying to say but it's a whole different thing from what they "used" to do vs. what their actual production is with that player and as it stands Pau was better in that period than Love is now easily. I know the premise of your thread but your just trying to help your "agenda".

 

[Dwight Howard]

Has kobe ever played with 2 all-star like bron did in Miami and Cleveland?..

 

[Sccit]

Wade and Bosh was on the downward direction career wise, Allan was JJ Reddikk status with Miami. Kyrie/waiters couldn't make the playoffs in the east, the other players were not all-star players ever either but I guess that doesn't matter? You're odd...

The wade you see today is the wade LeBron had to work with. Bosh was done, channing Frye status. Pat Riely ghost riding the coaching whip is what pushed that organization over the top. LeBron will and has told you that himself. Love has been average at best in Cleveland, any player should put up numbers playing with LeBron, love isn't and its not LeBron's fault. Love doesn't have that mamba in him

You making up strawmen stat LeBron fans bruh LeBron makes players better, been that way since he was in high school, we all watched his games on ESPN at the time (we didn't see Kobe's tho) and then we were all witnesses when he entered the league, balled out vs Sacramento. When Kobe came in, he was babied like if he had fragile nuts (this was long before Chris Child's tee'd off on his grill piece) I recall Kobe shooting back to back to back air balls, Nick the slick had to hold LA down cuz Kobe wasn't LeBron

Kobe trying to emulate Jordan thought disrespecting teammates was cool, but he isn't Jordan. He doesn't smoke cigars and drink and gamble. He speaks/snitches in like 5 languages fluently. This attitude rubbed players the wrong way and Kobe failed to make the playoffs a bunch of times because he's not LeBron. Without Phil Jackson Kobe is Mitch Richmond status. Nobody wanted to play with him the last half of his career, and because of that the team til this day is struggling to land any notable free agents.

And yet y'all say LeBron not Kobe will come save you next season

Spoiler

or maybe it'll be Paul George

YES WE ALL KNOW THEY WERE MUCH WORSE PLAYIN WITH LEBRON, U DIDNT NEED TO TELL US THAT .. STILL A WAYYYYY BETTER CAST THAN KOBES OF 09-10 AND ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE.


LOL HE SAID “THE WADE U SEE TODAY IS THE WADE LEBRON PLAYED WITH” .. AS IF WADE DIDNT AGE IN 7 YEARS. NOT EVEN GUNA READ THIS WEIRD ASS POST IN ITS ENTIRITY, BUT SKIMMING THROUGH IT, THERES HELLA QUOTABLES.

 

[Sccit]

Allan was JJ Reddikk status with Miami.

Bosh was done, channing Frye status.

Love has been average at best in Cleveland, any player should put up numbers playing with LeBron, love isn't and its not LeBron's fault.

LeBron makes players better, been that way since he was in high school,

Kobe doesn't smoke cigars and drink and gamble.

Without Phil Jackson Kobe is Mitch Richmond status.

LEBRON GROUPIES YALL

 

[Sccit]

KG wasnt playing like a HOFer in 2010. If he was then dont u think he would grab more than 3 rebounds in game 7. He was 34 years old coming back from an injury that endee his prime the year before.

Ray Allen had 1 good game the whole series. His best days were behind him as well.

Curry and Durant on the other hand in their 20s....

THE GOAT STOLE ALL HIS REBOUNDS

 

[Flex Grossman]

I don't care about white people's opinions when it comes to basketball.

No one cares about your opinion on anything, WOAT. Stop @‘ing me.