Let's get deep in it: Love
- Thread starter PeridotPuss
- Start date
#SOG_soldier
New York knicks and phoenix suns stan
Love is for simps we don't love these hoes were I'm from. Outside of my wifey that is. I love that hoe, but the rest of these bytches thery for anyone. :ghghgh:
:imnotblack:
:stupidmofo:
:imnotblack:
:stupidmofo:
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
Seen this thread when you made and wanted to respond to it. Had to bookmark it. I need to start responding to some of these threads. Honestly, I think we need a better understand of the word Love to therefore get a better understanding.
The Online Etymological Dictionary (OED) traces the etymology of the word love as follows
Love (v.): Old English lufam "to love,cherish, show love to; delight in, approve, "from Proto-Germanic *lubojan (cf. Old High German lubon, German lubon, German lieben), from root of love (n.). Related: Loved; loving. Adjective love-hate "ambivalent" is from 1937, originally a term in psychological jargon.
Love (n.): Old English lufu "love, affection, friendliness," from Proto-Germanic *lubo (cf. Old high German liubi "joy", German Liebe "love;" Old Norse, Old Frisian, Dutch lof; German Lob "praise;" Old Saxon liof, Old Frisian liaf , Dutch lief, Old High German Liob, German lieb, Gothic liufs "dear, beloved").
The Germanic words are from PIE *leubh- "to care, desire, love" (cf. Latin lubet, later libet "pleases;" Sanskrit lubhyati "desires"; Old Church Slavonic l'ubu "dear, beloved;" Lithuanian liaupse "song of praise" ).
Based on the above we can see that the word "Love" has the following consonantal cluster variations in IE: l-v, l-b, l-bh,l-p & l-f. A complete picture of the root is given by the Tower Of Babel (TOB) Nostratic database w/ more extensive entries.
The meanings may surprise those reading
Indo- European:
Proto-IE: *leubh-
Meaning: to love
Old Indian: lubhyati, ptc. lubdha- 'to long for, desire, be interested in'; lobha- m. 'eager desire, covetousness'
Old Greek: Lupta f. 'rerepa, npocthtytka' (Hsch.) (a prosititute)
Slavic: *ljubb, *ljubiti, *ljubi
Baltic: *leub-s-ia f., *leub-s-in- vb.
Germanic: *liub-a- adj., *laub-ia-vb., *luba-a-n., m., *lub-o f., *lub-e-vb., etc.
Latin: Libet (Olat lubet), -ere, -uit, -itum est it pleases, lusted, like', lubens, libens 'happy, willing', lubido, libido, -inis f. 'desire, craving, lust'
Other Italic: Osk loufir 'vel' (lead, conduct, work, guide, keep, wadge)
Celtic : MIr co-lba 'Liebe'
Albanian: laps 'I wish , want
Russ. meaning : jiio6htb (love , care for, affect)
References: WP II 419
Number: 1185
Root: leubh-
English meaning : to care for, love
German meaning: ' like to have, covet'; lieb, z. T. with development of 'like to have' to 'approve, praise', also in the germ of 'liebe' zu' confidence, trust, faith'
Derivatives: leubho- 'lieb; yearning'
Material: Ai. lubhyati 'feels, intense craving', lobhayati 'aroused, desire' (formell = germ. *laubjan, das aber Denominativ zu *lauba- ags. leaf), lobha- m. 'covetousness, greed' (= ags. leaf usw.), lubdha- greedy, licentious; seduced'
As we can see from the above entries , love has a range of of associations within the Indo-European language family that include the following: 'to care for, praise extol, grant,intense craving, promise, etc. While they are entries along the lines of caring for another, the dominant entry meanings lean more towards love being primarily a desire, a wanting or lust, which leads to expanded meanings of covetousness, greed and prostitute, etc. It stands to reason why individuals assume love is a feeling/emotion: Because it is so closely associated with the feelings experienced from the obtainment of one's desires. However, the entry "to care for" is more in alignment with its original African meaning as we will see later in our discussion.
It comes as no suprise why some of our relationships are in such a disarray: it appears some folks have adopted more so the lust aspect of the term more so than the caring. The OED defines lust as :
Lust: Old english lust "desire, appetite, pleasure," from Proto-Germanic *lustuz (cf. Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Dutch, German lust, Old Norse lyst, Gothic lustus "pleasure, desire, lust"), from PIE *las - "to eager, wanton, or unruly" (cf. latin lascivus "wanton, playful, lustful; see lasciviousness)
lascivious (adj.): mid-15c., from Middle French lascivieux or directly from Late Latin lasciviosus (used in a scolding sense by Isidore & other early Church writers), from Latin lascivia "lewdness, playfulness, frolicsomeness, jolity," from lascivus "lewd, playful, frolicsome, wanton, " from PIE *las-ko, from *las- "to be eager, wanton, or unruly" (cf. Sanskirt -lasati "yearns", lasati "plays, frolics," Hittite ilaliya- "to desire, covet," Greek laste.
This explains the approach to love here in the West & why many crave the feeling or emotion. If you primarily seek "pleasure, lust, arousal, seduction, then this is what would lead to the expanded meanings of "prostitute, make love(have sex), covetousness, praise, glorify, wish, adoration, approval, etc.
The question then becomes "To what end?" if love is a "desire" what does one "covet" for? many individuals think that love is an end product, but by the consensus in I-E (as understood thus far), it would appear to be a means or a starting point. However a means to what? If love is simply what you want, but it according to the I-E languages--is in reality a "craving," what, then, are we craving for if "love" is not it? By this defintion, one cannot "seek" love. We cannot use phrases like "I found love" or "I'm looking for love " because love is not the end product, it is the desire itself. The confusion can be cleared up once we understand the African component of this concept.
In traditional Africa, words are not random sounds humans make to pontificate. There is a spirit behind words (Check Mutwa 1964, Kajangu 2005,Fu-Kiau 2001, Marcel & Dieterlen 1986). In Africsn ontology, there are spirits that exist naturally that have given the breath of life by the Creator. Other spirits are created (awoken per se) by human beings. A spirit is a cosmic algorithm, a code if you will, that when given the right amount of energy, is activated & directed towards given purpose. Words are given energy by the acceptance of the term & its usage in language. A misunderstanding of a term does not change"spirit" of the term. It is the spirit of the term that allows for metaphoric extensions.
The African languages that possess this word have a more expansive sense. African words are moreso themes, which in our modern approach to categorization, would require separate words for each conceptualization that would fall under the African theme. To get a gist of what i mean, we can examine the nature of concrete nouns and how they have shaped our early human vocabulary. As noted by Campbell-Dunn in his book Sumerian
Comparative gRammar (2009):
These observations apply to all African languages families & this is relevant because Sumerian is Negro-Egyptian Language (Wagner 1935, walkers 2006.2011, Campbell-Dunn 2009a, MBoli 2010). We must also familiarize ourselves with the concept of paronymy, "A word linked to another by similiarity of form"It is paronymy that allows Africans to utilize the rebus principle in speech & in writing. A common example usually given in the literature to explain the rebus principle is presented below:
With that said, the idea of love is always connected with the "heart" in world languages. The word for heart in African languages carries the same consonant sequence as the word "love" (<PIE *leubh ; l-bh) in Indo-European. In the so-called Afro-Asiatic (A-A) language family, we have following from the TOB database:
Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *lab
Meaning: side of body
Semitic: *labb(-at)- body from neck to rump; back and flank'
Bedauye (Beja): leew (<*lVB-)'side'
Saho-Afar: *lab- 'side of the body' - (?) *lab-k- 'shoulder'
High East Cushytic: *lap- 'side' (?)
Notes: CF. *li/ubb- 'heart' (217) probably related. CF. Bla Review 503.
Proto-Omotic: * lip-
Afroasiatic etymology:
Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *la/ip?
Meaning: inner organ; chest and belly w/interior
Borean etymology:
Semitic : *li/api?- 'adipose, fleshy tissue, fat; marrow, pith' (?)
Western Chadic: *(ma-)lap- 'spleen' 1, 'liver' 2
saho- afar: *?alef- spleen
Bengston (2008) has following variations in A-A where the /l/ sound becomes /d/ or /n/.
40. heart
40.1. Om: (N) Basketo-Dokka *bu(
d-a id. ll (S) Dime bude,Galila bu:da id. lll Chad: (C) Gudu KR mobud id., Daba m6 bbura "chest" (Kraft), Uzam ma. bruv, Mada burov "heart" (Both Mouchet) lll ?Berb.: (S) Ahaggar abada, pl. ibadan "sein; pied des pentes" (Prasse 1974, 315: *a-badah, pl. *i-badaham), Ayr-Awlemidden abada id. (NZ I, 17).
40. 2 . Om.: (N) Male 'ina id; Chara 'i:na = hi: na (Fleming) = yina: "belly" (cerulli); Nayi yi: nu id lll Eg. (Dyn. 22) hn "belly" (Wb. II, 492). (Bengston, 2008: III)
40. 6 Om.: (N) Gonga * nibb-a id. < Ethio-Semitic: Geez, Tigre, Amhara, Gurage lebb "heart" , Tigrinya lebbi id. (Leslau 1959, 43: 1987, 305).
The following has the l-b/l-p variation, but also records the nasalization of /b/ to /m/. This is an important sound change to keep in mind for later.
4. belly
4.1. Om: (N) Basketo lippe id. ll (S) Galila lip'a id., further Ubamer lIp'a/lib'a "heart" and also Dizi lIb, if it is not an Ethio-Semitic borrowing lll Cush.: (N) Beja leew "Seite" (Reinisch) ll (E) *lab'- > Afar lab "side of the body" (Parker & hayward); Somali lab "chest" (Abraham); Oromo lapp'ee "heart, chest", Burji lap' ee "side" (E 426, #882: SOm. + Cush. *lap' - "rib" lll Chad.: (C) daba libi, Musgoy lib "belly" (JI2, 21). (Bengston, 2008: 95).
4.5. Om.: (N) Basketo-Dokka *mill- id., cf. Kafa mullo "heart", maybe Mao ma:le "liver" lll Chad.: (W) Bokkos mulut "liver" (Jungraithmayr); Burrum-Kir mal id. (Shimizu) ll (E) Sokoro meli(u) "belly" (JI2, 21); Sokoro meildum "liver" (Lukas).
48. Liver
48.1. Om.: (N) Ometo *mayz-; She mai id., Bench may heart; Hozo mei, Seze bei "liver" lll Eg. mjz.t "liver" (wb. II, 44). 48.2 Om.: (N) Gonga *apa:r- id. lll Cush.: (E) Sidamo affale, Burji affala id. (sasse 1982, 24). cf. Afar af cado, saho re afcadoo "heart" ll ?(S) Iraqw afetlo "waist". (Bengston, 2008: 114)
We can see from the above evidence, the root of the term deals w/ the theme of being "inside the body" and this can refer to any of the major organs & areas such as the "heart, liver, chest or belly". This is how the "heart" became associated w/ "emotions" because emotions from "the heart" (inside, core ) of a person. These vibrations originate from one's inside, versus sensations perceived from engaging phenomena externally: i.e, from touching, hearing, smelling, tasting or seeing.
The Ancient Egyptian language provides us with a more extensive association of the term. It must be noted that in the ancient Egyptian Language, the /r/ or /l/ sound was often written w/ the grapheme for /i/ or /j/ (due to palatalization), /n/ and /3/ (which is really a uvular nasalized trill /r/ (see Lopriano, 1998: 33, Mboli, 2010: 240). With this said, Egyptian (ciKam)has the following :
jb - heart, mind, understanding, intelligence, will, desire, mood, wish [noun- bod.]
jb - heart, mind, understanding, intelligence, will, desire, mood, wish [noun - bod]
jbjb - darling, my love, sweetheart {term of endearment}
jbw - heart, mind understanding, intelligence, will, desire, mood, wish [noun- bod.]
jb - heart mind, understanding, intelligence, will, desire, mood, wish [noun- bod.]
jb- think, suppose [verb]
jb - think , suppose, feel [verb]
jb - think, believe, feel, fancy, perceive [verb]
3bbj - to desire, wish for, to love. to long for, to covet [verb]
j3b /3bj - to desire, wish for, to love, to long for , to covet [verb]
As we can see above, the ancient Egyptian cognates have the essential connotations as the l-bh root in I-E. We posit that PIE *leubh - "to love" is cognate with M-E 3bj " to love, to desire, wish for, to long for, to covet." As noted earlier, there is a b <>m interchange, and egyptian jb is Kikongo-Bantu
moyo [l>j>y] "heart, life, soul, spirit". In ciluba-bantu the term is mwoyo "heart, life, mind, soul, courage, will, desire, inclination, sense, salvation, etc.
this is only in part because i want to come back and build on emotions,etc
The Online Etymological Dictionary (OED) traces the etymology of the word love as follows
Love (v.): Old English lufam "to love,cherish, show love to; delight in, approve, "from Proto-Germanic *lubojan (cf. Old High German lubon, German lubon, German lieben), from root of love (n.). Related: Loved; loving. Adjective love-hate "ambivalent" is from 1937, originally a term in psychological jargon.
Love (n.): Old English lufu "love, affection, friendliness," from Proto-Germanic *lubo (cf. Old high German liubi "joy", German Liebe "love;" Old Norse, Old Frisian, Dutch lof; German Lob "praise;" Old Saxon liof, Old Frisian liaf , Dutch lief, Old High German Liob, German lieb, Gothic liufs "dear, beloved").
The Germanic words are from PIE *leubh- "to care, desire, love" (cf. Latin lubet, later libet "pleases;" Sanskrit lubhyati "desires"; Old Church Slavonic l'ubu "dear, beloved;" Lithuanian liaupse "song of praise" ).
Based on the above we can see that the word "Love" has the following consonantal cluster variations in IE: l-v, l-b, l-bh,l-p & l-f. A complete picture of the root is given by the Tower Of Babel (TOB) Nostratic database w/ more extensive entries.
The meanings may surprise those reading
Indo- European:
Proto-IE: *leubh-
Meaning: to love
Old Indian: lubhyati, ptc. lubdha- 'to long for, desire, be interested in'; lobha- m. 'eager desire, covetousness'
Old Greek: Lupta f. 'rerepa, npocthtytka' (Hsch.) (a prosititute)
Slavic: *ljubb, *ljubiti, *ljubi
Baltic: *leub-s-ia f., *leub-s-in- vb.
Germanic: *liub-a- adj., *laub-ia-vb., *luba-a-n., m., *lub-o f., *lub-e-vb., etc.
Latin: Libet (Olat lubet), -ere, -uit, -itum est it pleases, lusted, like', lubens, libens 'happy, willing', lubido, libido, -inis f. 'desire, craving, lust'
Other Italic: Osk loufir 'vel' (lead, conduct, work, guide, keep, wadge)
Celtic : MIr co-lba 'Liebe'
Albanian: laps 'I wish , want
Russ. meaning : jiio6htb (love , care for, affect)
References: WP II 419
Number: 1185
Root: leubh-
English meaning : to care for, love
German meaning: ' like to have, covet'; lieb, z. T. with development of 'like to have' to 'approve, praise', also in the germ of 'liebe' zu' confidence, trust, faith'
Derivatives: leubho- 'lieb; yearning'
Material: Ai. lubhyati 'feels, intense craving', lobhayati 'aroused, desire' (formell = germ. *laubjan, das aber Denominativ zu *lauba- ags. leaf), lobha- m. 'covetousness, greed' (= ags. leaf usw.), lubdha- greedy, licentious; seduced'
As we can see from the above entries , love has a range of of associations within the Indo-European language family that include the following: 'to care for, praise extol, grant,intense craving, promise, etc. While they are entries along the lines of caring for another, the dominant entry meanings lean more towards love being primarily a desire, a wanting or lust, which leads to expanded meanings of covetousness, greed and prostitute, etc. It stands to reason why individuals assume love is a feeling/emotion: Because it is so closely associated with the feelings experienced from the obtainment of one's desires. However, the entry "to care for" is more in alignment with its original African meaning as we will see later in our discussion.
It comes as no suprise why some of our relationships are in such a disarray: it appears some folks have adopted more so the lust aspect of the term more so than the caring. The OED defines lust as :
Lust: Old english lust "desire, appetite, pleasure," from Proto-Germanic *lustuz (cf. Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Dutch, German lust, Old Norse lyst, Gothic lustus "pleasure, desire, lust"), from PIE *las - "to eager, wanton, or unruly" (cf. latin lascivus "wanton, playful, lustful; see lasciviousness)
lascivious (adj.): mid-15c., from Middle French lascivieux or directly from Late Latin lasciviosus (used in a scolding sense by Isidore & other early Church writers), from Latin lascivia "lewdness, playfulness, frolicsomeness, jolity," from lascivus "lewd, playful, frolicsome, wanton, " from PIE *las-ko, from *las- "to be eager, wanton, or unruly" (cf. Sanskirt -lasati "yearns", lasati "plays, frolics," Hittite ilaliya- "to desire, covet," Greek laste.
This explains the approach to love here in the West & why many crave the feeling or emotion. If you primarily seek "pleasure, lust, arousal, seduction, then this is what would lead to the expanded meanings of "prostitute, make love(have sex), covetousness, praise, glorify, wish, adoration, approval, etc.
The question then becomes "To what end?" if love is a "desire" what does one "covet" for? many individuals think that love is an end product, but by the consensus in I-E (as understood thus far), it would appear to be a means or a starting point. However a means to what? If love is simply what you want, but it according to the I-E languages--is in reality a "craving," what, then, are we craving for if "love" is not it? By this defintion, one cannot "seek" love. We cannot use phrases like "I found love" or "I'm looking for love " because love is not the end product, it is the desire itself. The confusion can be cleared up once we understand the African component of this concept.
In traditional Africa, words are not random sounds humans make to pontificate. There is a spirit behind words (Check Mutwa 1964, Kajangu 2005,Fu-Kiau 2001, Marcel & Dieterlen 1986). In Africsn ontology, there are spirits that exist naturally that have given the breath of life by the Creator. Other spirits are created (awoken per se) by human beings. A spirit is a cosmic algorithm, a code if you will, that when given the right amount of energy, is activated & directed towards given purpose. Words are given energy by the acceptance of the term & its usage in language. A misunderstanding of a term does not change"spirit" of the term. It is the spirit of the term that allows for metaphoric extensions.
The African languages that possess this word have a more expansive sense. African words are moreso themes, which in our modern approach to categorization, would require separate words for each conceptualization that would fall under the African theme. To get a gist of what i mean, we can examine the nature of concrete nouns and how they have shaped our early human vocabulary. As noted by Campbell-Dunn in his book Sumerian
Comparative gRammar (2009):
These observations apply to all African languages families & this is relevant because Sumerian is Negro-Egyptian Language (Wagner 1935, walkers 2006.2011, Campbell-Dunn 2009a, MBoli 2010). We must also familiarize ourselves with the concept of paronymy, "A word linked to another by similiarity of form"It is paronymy that allows Africans to utilize the rebus principle in speech & in writing. A common example usually given in the literature to explain the rebus principle is presented below:
With that said, the idea of love is always connected with the "heart" in world languages. The word for heart in African languages carries the same consonant sequence as the word "love" (<PIE *leubh ; l-bh) in Indo-European. In the so-called Afro-Asiatic (A-A) language family, we have following from the TOB database:
Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *lab
Meaning: side of body
Semitic: *labb(-at)- body from neck to rump; back and flank'
Bedauye (Beja): leew (<*lVB-)'side'
Saho-Afar: *lab- 'side of the body' - (?) *lab-k- 'shoulder'
High East Cushytic: *lap- 'side' (?)
Notes: CF. *li/ubb- 'heart' (217) probably related. CF. Bla Review 503.
Proto-Omotic: * lip-
Afroasiatic etymology:
Proto-Afro-Asiatic: *la/ip?
Meaning: inner organ; chest and belly w/interior
Borean etymology:
Semitic : *li/api?- 'adipose, fleshy tissue, fat; marrow, pith' (?)
Western Chadic: *(ma-)lap- 'spleen' 1, 'liver' 2
saho- afar: *?alef- spleen
Bengston (2008) has following variations in A-A where the /l/ sound becomes /d/ or /n/.
40. heart
40.1. Om: (N) Basketo-Dokka *bu(
d-a id. ll (S) Dime bude,Galila bu:da id. lll Chad: (C) Gudu KR mobud id., Daba m6 bbura "chest" (Kraft), Uzam ma. bruv, Mada burov "heart" (Both Mouchet) lll ?Berb.: (S) Ahaggar abada, pl. ibadan "sein; pied des pentes" (Prasse 1974, 315: *a-badah, pl. *i-badaham), Ayr-Awlemidden abada id. (NZ I, 17). 40. 2 . Om.: (N) Male 'ina id; Chara 'i:na = hi: na (Fleming) = yina: "belly" (cerulli); Nayi yi: nu id lll Eg. (Dyn. 22) hn "belly" (Wb. II, 492). (Bengston, 2008: III)
40. 6 Om.: (N) Gonga * nibb-a id. < Ethio-Semitic: Geez, Tigre, Amhara, Gurage lebb "heart" , Tigrinya lebbi id. (Leslau 1959, 43: 1987, 305).
The following has the l-b/l-p variation, but also records the nasalization of /b/ to /m/. This is an important sound change to keep in mind for later.
4. belly
4.1. Om: (N) Basketo lippe id. ll (S) Galila lip'a id., further Ubamer lIp'a/lib'a "heart" and also Dizi lIb, if it is not an Ethio-Semitic borrowing lll Cush.: (N) Beja leew "Seite" (Reinisch) ll (E) *lab'- > Afar lab "side of the body" (Parker & hayward); Somali lab "chest" (Abraham); Oromo lapp'ee "heart, chest", Burji lap' ee "side" (E 426, #882: SOm. + Cush. *lap' - "rib" lll Chad.: (C) daba libi, Musgoy lib "belly" (JI2, 21). (Bengston, 2008: 95).
4.5. Om.: (N) Basketo-Dokka *mill- id., cf. Kafa mullo "heart", maybe Mao ma:le "liver" lll Chad.: (W) Bokkos mulut "liver" (Jungraithmayr); Burrum-Kir mal id. (Shimizu) ll (E) Sokoro meli(u) "belly" (JI2, 21); Sokoro meildum "liver" (Lukas).
48. Liver
48.1. Om.: (N) Ometo *mayz-; She mai id., Bench may heart; Hozo mei, Seze bei "liver" lll Eg. mjz.t "liver" (wb. II, 44). 48.2 Om.: (N) Gonga *apa:r- id. lll Cush.: (E) Sidamo affale, Burji affala id. (sasse 1982, 24). cf. Afar af cado, saho re afcadoo "heart" ll ?(S) Iraqw afetlo "waist". (Bengston, 2008: 114)
We can see from the above evidence, the root of the term deals w/ the theme of being "inside the body" and this can refer to any of the major organs & areas such as the "heart, liver, chest or belly". This is how the "heart" became associated w/ "emotions" because emotions from "the heart" (inside, core ) of a person. These vibrations originate from one's inside, versus sensations perceived from engaging phenomena externally: i.e, from touching, hearing, smelling, tasting or seeing.
The Ancient Egyptian language provides us with a more extensive association of the term. It must be noted that in the ancient Egyptian Language, the /r/ or /l/ sound was often written w/ the grapheme for /i/ or /j/ (due to palatalization), /n/ and /3/ (which is really a uvular nasalized trill /r/ (see Lopriano, 1998: 33, Mboli, 2010: 240). With this said, Egyptian (ciKam)has the following :
jb - heart, mind, understanding, intelligence, will, desire, mood, wish [noun- bod.]
jb - heart, mind, understanding, intelligence, will, desire, mood, wish [noun - bod]
jbjb - darling, my love, sweetheart {term of endearment}
jbw - heart, mind understanding, intelligence, will, desire, mood, wish [noun- bod.]
jb - heart mind, understanding, intelligence, will, desire, mood, wish [noun- bod.]
jb- think, suppose [verb]
jb - think , suppose, feel [verb]
jb - think, believe, feel, fancy, perceive [verb]
3bbj - to desire, wish for, to love. to long for, to covet [verb]
j3b /3bj - to desire, wish for, to love, to long for , to covet [verb]
As we can see above, the ancient Egyptian cognates have the essential connotations as the l-bh root in I-E. We posit that PIE *leubh - "to love" is cognate with M-E 3bj " to love, to desire, wish for, to long for, to covet." As noted earlier, there is a b <>m interchange, and egyptian jb is Kikongo-Bantu
moyo [l>j>y] "heart, life, soul, spirit". In ciluba-bantu the term is mwoyo "heart, life, mind, soul, courage, will, desire, inclination, sense, salvation, etc.
this is only in part because i want to come back and build on emotions,etc
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This is a good thread , because it a huge subject. When i find time away from the booth (if i can lol) im going to build on this more.
Great thread op.
I've been in my currently relationship for 10+ years.
That in love feeling died many moons ago
Maintaining that shyt has become a chore...
I've been in my currently relationship for 10+ years.
That in love feeling died many moons ago
Maintaining that shyt has become a chore...
Great thread op.
I've been in my currently relationship for 10+ years.
That in love feeling died many moons ago
Maintaining that shyt has become a chore...
It's my opinion real love is most similar to a feeling of joyful sacrifice.
You have to really want to do whatever you have to do forever for that person just because you love them. Spiritual principles based upon giving.
I've only felt this for my mom.
I think relationships are really tests of character and commitment and planning...that get confused for love. ..but I like threads like this
"Everyone is a guru, if you know how to listen..."
Great thread op.
I've been in my currently relationship for 10+ years.
That in love feeling died many moons ago
Maintaining that shyt has become a chore...
Your a beast, you actual have legit reason to peace out and you stick it out.
I really respect that, and I assume it has alot to do with the kids.
I wouldn't have to think twice about wifing someone like you based on your history.
and much 
Your a beast, you actual have legit reason to peace out and you stick it out.
I really respect that, and I assume it has alot to do with the kids.
I wouldn't have to think twice about wifing someone like you based on your history.
Mama didn't raise no quitter
Byt yeah the kiddos need their dad around so I'll grin and bear it for a little while longer
Im going to get what I want eventually...I'm a patient person 
how do you do it?
help me understand
I keep reminding myself that jailhouse orange doesn't look good against my complexion .
continuation from my post in this thread (been building on this subject for awhile) [page 2]
A jewish blogger by the name of Elad Nehorai recently wrote an article titled, "I didn't love my wife when we got married (currently located @ I Didn't Love My Wife When We Got Married. This essay is essentially about how the author thought love was an emotion, but later came to understand that it wasnt an emotion at all, but action. I found this article to be very valuable in relation to the question of "what is love?" nehorai begins his story at the time he met his soon to be wife and the emotions that he was feeling at the time.
"Im a ridiculous, emotional, over-sentimental sap. i guess that why i told my wife I loved her on our second date. i had tried really hard up to that point to hold it back, honestly. i wanted to tell her on the first date, but i knew that i would probably be weird. I still remember her reaction. She kind of gave me this half-shy half-amused smile. The she nodded and looked off into the sky. I wasn't heartbroken by the response. I think part of me recognized that she knew something i didn't. Like most Hasidic Jews (we both became religious later in life), our dating period lasted a very short time. After two months of dating, we were engaged. three months after that, we were married. And that whole time I was swooning. The fire was burning in me, a fire that burned just likethe second date: I was in love. But then we got married, and everything changed. Marriage quicker than i was ready for, did this thing: it started sucking away that emotion. I tried so hard to keep that fire going, to keep that emotion alight, but it got harder and harder. I mean, how you can feel that burning love when you're sitting at the table discussing how to use the last twenty dollars in bank account? How can you feel it when you act into an argument? How can you feel it when you think it make perfect sense to put your socks on the floor after you're done with them and she has this crazy idea that they need to go in the laundry basket? there was no way I could keep that dating fire bumping as practicality invaded our lives. And at first, it drove me nuts. That emotion meant love. That excitement was how i knew i cared for her! But suddenly, life was this grind. Even when I was with her. Especially when I was with her. And even worse, it seemed that the harder I tried to be sentimental and lovey-dovey, the less it was reciprocated.
As we can see, Nehorai thought that love was this "burning fire" or emotion he felt at the beginning of their courtship. He came to realize later on that this emotion was ultimately unsustainable and the lack of such a feeling began to take a toll on his relationship. However, when ne changed his actions, the emotions he was looking for began to manifest in his relationship. This change in perception came about when he had:
After the experience, he came to realize that he really didnt love his wife at the beginning. As Nehorai further stated, he didn't love his wife,"Because love isn't a emotion. that fire i felt, it was simply that: emotional fire. From the excitement of dating a woman I felt like I could marry. But it wasn't love." By Indo-Europeans standards, he was in "love" as love, in this language family, is simply "lust, covetousness, desire, wish, praise, etc." We can see how his initial interpretation of love guided his actions and evoked a certain type of emotional response that was misleading. Only when he began to "do" love, did he realize what love was. By his own words, .."love, isn't an emotion or even a noun. It's a verb. better define as giving. as putting someone else's needs above your own."
Earlier in this thread, i noted that in African languages the *l-b/*b-r roots also had dialectial variants where the /b/ sound is realized as /m/. In the ancient Egyptian language: the word for "love, desire, wish, etc.", is represented by the m-r consonant root the kweke branch of n-e. the following table:
mrj- to love, to like {verb]
mrwt - love, will, desire [noun]
mrj - love, want wish, desire, prefer, covet, cherish (verb)
mrwty - the well beloved [noun]
mrwt- love, will, desire [noun]
h3ty - heart, sense [noun -bod.]
Thus, love in the Egyptian context (will, desire, covet, prefer, cherish, to like") is associated with the same concepts as noted in Proto Indo European *leubh- "love, wish, desire, to care for." If love in the African languages is the same as love in I-E, how then are the two general attestations different? To get at heart of difference, we have to take a look at a variant of the word mrj in Egyptian: i.e., m3'.t.
The word m3'.t in the Egyptological dictionaries has the following meanings: "truth, justice, righteousness, propriety, order, law, right doing, correct, vindicated, real, genuine, orderly management, and reciprocity." Modern historians pronounce this word something like ma'at. Profressor Theophile Obenga provides the following series of correspondences in modern African languages, but I am not convinced of this proposed set:
Immanence Of Maat in African Cultures (Theophile Obenga: Egypt: Ancient History Of African Philosophy", pg 48)
Ancient Egyptian - :maat, truth; maa, "true"
Coptic (Egypt) -:me, mee, mee, mie, mei, mei, meei, "truth", "justice", and also "truthful", "righteous"
Caffino (Cushytic, Ethiopia) -:moyo, "motive", "reason" (truth and reason are inseparable)
Kongo (congo) - :moyo, "life", "soul", "mind" (same semantic field)
Ngbaka (Central African Republic) -:ma, magic medicine (in order to know the truth)
Fang (Equatorial Guinea, South Cameroon, Gabon) -:mye, mie, "pure" (tabe mye, "to be physically and morally pure")
Mpongwe (Gabon) -:mya, "to know" the truth (mya re insome, "the self-knowledge" , which the Delphic oracle also enjoined: gnothi seauton)
Yoruba (Nigeria) - :mo, "to know" the truth (knowledge)
Hausa (Nigeria) - :ma, "in fact" "indeed" (affirmative truth: ni ma na ji, "i in fact heard it")
Mada (North Cameroon) - :mat, "genie," "goblin" (semantic specialization)
Nuer (Nilotic, Sudan) - :mat, "total," "sum up"; "forces" (ro mat, "to join forces with". Maat is indeed the total of all virtues, all forces as ideals to guide man in his personal and spiritual life).
Imo the correspondences proposed by Alain Anselin, in his article: "Les mots de geno - Fulbe, Couchites, Nilotes et Egyptiens anciens, is more convincing:
Gabor Takacs (Takacs, 1999: 350) Eastern Cushytic: *ma' "good, sweet"; Northern Omotic: *ma'aa; Kingdom of Jenjero (Cushytic) me'e, meqe, "be good, be right" (RJHayward, 1994:167); Proto-Boni *ma aa "sweet, gentle"; Bireeri ma'aa (B.Heine, 1982: 131); Fulfulde demonstrates the palatalization of glottal stop /'/, Cushytic and Omotic > y] Adamawa Fulfulde: mo'' -, moyy- "be good, be filled, thanks/mercy/blessings" (C.Sydou 1998, 451), Pulaar: moyy- "be well, kind, caring, generous" (C.seydou, 1998, 463); moyyere pl. moyye "blessing, grace, happiness", moyyango "be charitable towards someone" (D.Noyce 1989,251); mo're, pl mo'e, "benefit", moyyugo, mo'ugo, "goodness", Wolof may "give, offer," may gi (with /g/ velar certifying that the agreement class was with a glottal), "grace, aptitude" (A.Fal et al., 1990,128).
However , these forms are due to much sound change. The most archaic forms can be found in Bantu languages (of the bere branch of Negro-Egyptian). We must first note that the /3/ sound in Egyptian was historically vocalized as a nasalized uvular trill /r/ (Mboli, 2010:504),. The sound correspondence 3=l/r is demonstrated by Alain Anselin in his article "Some Notes about an Early African Pool of Cultures from which Emerged The Egyptian Civilisation" (Exell, 2011:49).
b3 < *b-l, 'soul' (Old Kingdom; WB 1, 411; on the identification of /3/ as /l/, see above and Anselin 2007a): West Chadic (Nigeria): Angas-sura: bel, "reason, sense, to be wise, intelligence, understanding' (Takacs 2004,31); Central Chadic: Matakham (Cameroon): *bl, 'genius, spirit, mboko', belbele-hay, 'genius'; Niger-Congo:Fulfulde (Cameroon): nbeelu(ngu), 'principe vital de l'homme - menace d'etre devore par les mangeurs d'ame' (Noye 1989, 40; see also, Anselin 2007b, 92); Semitic: *bal, spirit, mind'; Aramaic: bl, 'spirit, intelligence'; Northern Syriac: bala, reason, attention'; Arabic: bal, 'attention, consciousness, mind' (Takacs 2001, 6).
si3 <*s-r, 'to understand, know > god of the knowledge' (Old Kingdom; WB IV 30, 1-21), written with the hieroglyph of the cloth (Gardiner S32); si3.t (Pyramid Texts; Coffin Texts variant, sr3.t, identifying /i/ as a reflex of /r/): Central Chadic: Mofu-gudur: s3; 'to know' (Barreteau 1988, 198); Mercy: s3r, 'to know' (Gravina et al.2003); Udlam: -s3r, 'to know' (Kinnaird and Oumate 2003); Muyang: s3r, 'to get to know' (Smith 2003).
m33 < *mVl, 'to see, look, examine' (Old Kingdom; WB II 7, 1-10,7), phonetically written with the hieroglyph of the sickle (Gardiner UI), the phonetic complement of the vulture (Gardiner G1) or the determinative of the eye (Gardiner D4) (Kahl 2004, 166-7): Cushytic: Agaw; Bilin: mili?y-, 'to look,examine'; Kemant: mel-, 'to examine, observe'; Eastern Cushytic: Oromo: mal- 'to think'; Sidamo: mal, 'to perceive, advise': Somali: mala, 'thought'; Burji: mala, 'plan' (Anselin 2001). Omotic: Wolamo: mi, 'to believe'; Kafa: mallet, 'to observe' (Dolgopolsky 1973, 180).
You can compare a few terms in Egyptian with modern-day CiLuba-bantu to reinforce this fact. in Middle-Egyptian, for example, we have m3' "truth,real,right" with its shorter variant in ciLuba as munda "true" (where -nd <l) [see also-a/-a milowo(u) "agreeable, true, sincere, good; Kalenjiin man "true"]. The thirs phoneme ['] in the word m3' is a suffix and corresponds to sounds in Bantu /ng/, /k/, and /h/. For ' = k/ng, we can observe the following correspondences:
Cikam
'rk "to complete
'rk "tie, bind,"
'nh "captive, oath"
'rk "corner, angle, edge,"
'nh "beetle"
'3y "to grow up, mature, senior, excess (over), difference (in mathematics)"
i'n "baboon"
n' "compassion, benevolence
Kikongo kalunga "complete"
Kikongo kalunga "tie, bind";
Kikongo kanga "to tie up"
Kikongo konko "angle"; ciLuba ditengu/diTungi "corner"
ciLuba cijangala ~~~cijangalala "beetle, scarab." ; kikongo kinkakala, ekoka;
ciLuba -kola "grow, increase, aging."
ciLuba nkima "monkey" (=ncima)
ciLuba nanga > bunangi "love, charity"
Given the data above, we argue that m3' "true, real, right" (> m3'.t "truth, order, balance, etc.") was probably pronounced something like what we find in Basaa language: maeliga "truth." In ciluba-Bantu we have the variant Bulelela "actuality, truth" (malelela, malela). You can also say in Ciluba Cyama/Cama or CyaMalelela; Meyi-malelela or meeyi (tetela-bantu mete). The root of bulelela is lelela "actual, real, authentic, true, genuine, veritable," which in Egyptian is rrj "really, truly"; Yoruba ododo "truth, fact, justice, equality, right, righteousness." Thus, the root of m3'.t "truth" is in fact -3-; with m- being a fossilized prefix of abstraction and -' being a fossilized suffix. The following table brings a deeper understanding to our analysis
M-E rri "really,truly"
Ciluba -lelela (-lelele(a)) "truth, authentic, veritable"
Setswana ruri "truly"
Yoruba ododo, otito "truth, fact, equality, right, righteousness
M-E m3't "truth, justice, harmony, balance"
Ciluba ma-lelela "reality, truth";
bu-lelela "reality,truth";
cye-leke(a) "reality,reality";
bi-lengele "well,correctly, distinctly,carefully, right,rightly
Basaa maeliga "truth"
netuuk "truth (n-t-k>m-l-g ?)
Zande reng) "truth"
Somali run "truth"
Kikongo nlungu "justification (the state of being just), justice, righteousness, blamelessness, completeness"
lunga "be accurate,right, be exact, perfect,etc.,"
IsiZulu lunga "become right, good"
utu-lunga "accuracy"
This is important to note in relation to m3'.t meaning "order". This -3- root is cognate with ciLuba eela "introduce, put/set/make, push"; "dispose,arrange,lay, apply, put out, place"; "to express, to make, to exit from self ("sound, word, object, idea, etc.") This root has come to be associated with the concepts of distance, generations, and also deals with that which causes the perpetuation of something (to exit from self). We see this reflected in the following terms in ciLuba:
Lela "birth,give birth, produce"; "cause, source, generate"; "a family,a home"; "adopt, educate, raise"; subject, submit." baledi "parents" : buledi " to engender, maternity, paternity" : bulela "relationship"; relationship characterizing those who cannot marry one another"; "charity, kindness, generosity" : ciledi "cause, origin, source" :cileledi "matrix": cilelelu "Time of birth, date of birth" : cilelelu "placenta" (Syn.: ndanga, nkishyabende): dilediibwa "birth, Christmas (birth Of Jesus) ": dilela "birth,childbirth, labor, complicated thing, to be tricky": lelela [n + I> n, l + i> di] ---> - Badila > lelesha - "facilitate childbirth, attend a woman in childbirth": Lelulula " be born again, to revive" lulelu "childbirth, fertility, generation": Mulelu > muledi "parent, mother, father" mulela "member of the extended family, parent" mulelu "human fertility, fertility": ndedi "cause (syn.: ciLedi): ndela "profilic person, with many children" : ndelanganyi "offspring, descedants, generations" ndelelu "descendants, generation"; ndelelu Mulenga "family planning": ndelu "generations, offspring, progeny": Tunda "bring into the world, give birth, born/rise. App.- Lela -> a-Teeta: lela- "be abundant, abound, overflow" [Syn.: Tengeka ->Akan, akanangan [n + I> n, l +i> di] -->sela]: Tengeka ~~~ Tenka- "be abundant, abound": Lelakana- ~~~ -lelakanangana "be found in large quantities, abound on all sides"
This is how the l-b variant in Indo-European came to mean "make love" (have sex). It is this sense of progeny, causation and relatedness that inform us of the other variant of the word m3'.t spoken of earlier mrj. The term mrj is defined as "love, want, wish, desire, prefer, covet, cherish".
A jewish blogger by the name of Elad Nehorai recently wrote an article titled, "I didn't love my wife when we got married (currently located @ I Didn't Love My Wife When We Got Married. This essay is essentially about how the author thought love was an emotion, but later came to understand that it wasnt an emotion at all, but action. I found this article to be very valuable in relation to the question of "what is love?" nehorai begins his story at the time he met his soon to be wife and the emotions that he was feeling at the time.
"Im a ridiculous, emotional, over-sentimental sap. i guess that why i told my wife I loved her on our second date. i had tried really hard up to that point to hold it back, honestly. i wanted to tell her on the first date, but i knew that i would probably be weird. I still remember her reaction. She kind of gave me this half-shy half-amused smile. The she nodded and looked off into the sky. I wasn't heartbroken by the response. I think part of me recognized that she knew something i didn't. Like most Hasidic Jews (we both became religious later in life), our dating period lasted a very short time. After two months of dating, we were engaged. three months after that, we were married. And that whole time I was swooning. The fire was burning in me, a fire that burned just likethe second date: I was in love. But then we got married, and everything changed. Marriage quicker than i was ready for, did this thing: it started sucking away that emotion. I tried so hard to keep that fire going, to keep that emotion alight, but it got harder and harder. I mean, how you can feel that burning love when you're sitting at the table discussing how to use the last twenty dollars in bank account? How can you feel it when you act into an argument? How can you feel it when you think it make perfect sense to put your socks on the floor after you're done with them and she has this crazy idea that they need to go in the laundry basket? there was no way I could keep that dating fire bumping as practicality invaded our lives. And at first, it drove me nuts. That emotion meant love. That excitement was how i knew i cared for her! But suddenly, life was this grind. Even when I was with her. Especially when I was with her. And even worse, it seemed that the harder I tried to be sentimental and lovey-dovey, the less it was reciprocated.
As we can see, Nehorai thought that love was this "burning fire" or emotion he felt at the beginning of their courtship. He came to realize later on that this emotion was ultimately unsustainable and the lack of such a feeling began to take a toll on his relationship. However, when ne changed his actions, the emotions he was looking for began to manifest in his relationship. This change in perception came about when he had:
After the experience, he came to realize that he really didnt love his wife at the beginning. As Nehorai further stated, he didn't love his wife,"Because love isn't a emotion. that fire i felt, it was simply that: emotional fire. From the excitement of dating a woman I felt like I could marry. But it wasn't love." By Indo-Europeans standards, he was in "love" as love, in this language family, is simply "lust, covetousness, desire, wish, praise, etc." We can see how his initial interpretation of love guided his actions and evoked a certain type of emotional response that was misleading. Only when he began to "do" love, did he realize what love was. By his own words, .."love, isn't an emotion or even a noun. It's a verb. better define as giving. as putting someone else's needs above your own."
Earlier in this thread, i noted that in African languages the *l-b/*b-r roots also had dialectial variants where the /b/ sound is realized as /m/. In the ancient Egyptian language: the word for "love, desire, wish, etc.", is represented by the m-r consonant root the kweke branch of n-e. the following table:
mrj- to love, to like {verb]
mrwt - love, will, desire [noun]
mrj - love, want wish, desire, prefer, covet, cherish (verb)
mrwty - the well beloved [noun]
mrwt- love, will, desire [noun]
h3ty - heart, sense [noun -bod.]
Thus, love in the Egyptian context (will, desire, covet, prefer, cherish, to like") is associated with the same concepts as noted in Proto Indo European *leubh- "love, wish, desire, to care for." If love in the African languages is the same as love in I-E, how then are the two general attestations different? To get at heart of difference, we have to take a look at a variant of the word mrj in Egyptian: i.e., m3'.t.
The word m3'.t in the Egyptological dictionaries has the following meanings: "truth, justice, righteousness, propriety, order, law, right doing, correct, vindicated, real, genuine, orderly management, and reciprocity." Modern historians pronounce this word something like ma'at. Profressor Theophile Obenga provides the following series of correspondences in modern African languages, but I am not convinced of this proposed set:
Immanence Of Maat in African Cultures (Theophile Obenga: Egypt: Ancient History Of African Philosophy", pg 48)
Ancient Egyptian - :maat, truth; maa, "true"
Coptic (Egypt) -:me, mee, mee, mie, mei, mei, meei, "truth", "justice", and also "truthful", "righteous"
Caffino (Cushytic, Ethiopia) -:moyo, "motive", "reason" (truth and reason are inseparable)
Kongo (congo) - :moyo, "life", "soul", "mind" (same semantic field)
Ngbaka (Central African Republic) -:ma, magic medicine (in order to know the truth)
Fang (Equatorial Guinea, South Cameroon, Gabon) -:mye, mie, "pure" (tabe mye, "to be physically and morally pure")
Mpongwe (Gabon) -:mya, "to know" the truth (mya re insome, "the self-knowledge" , which the Delphic oracle also enjoined: gnothi seauton)
Yoruba (Nigeria) - :mo, "to know" the truth (knowledge)
Hausa (Nigeria) - :ma, "in fact" "indeed" (affirmative truth: ni ma na ji, "i in fact heard it")
Mada (North Cameroon) - :mat, "genie," "goblin" (semantic specialization)
Nuer (Nilotic, Sudan) - :mat, "total," "sum up"; "forces" (ro mat, "to join forces with". Maat is indeed the total of all virtues, all forces as ideals to guide man in his personal and spiritual life).
Imo the correspondences proposed by Alain Anselin, in his article: "Les mots de geno - Fulbe, Couchites, Nilotes et Egyptiens anciens, is more convincing:
Gabor Takacs (Takacs, 1999: 350) Eastern Cushytic: *ma' "good, sweet"; Northern Omotic: *ma'aa; Kingdom of Jenjero (Cushytic) me'e, meqe, "be good, be right" (RJHayward, 1994:167); Proto-Boni *ma aa "sweet, gentle"; Bireeri ma'aa (B.Heine, 1982: 131); Fulfulde demonstrates the palatalization of glottal stop /'/, Cushytic and Omotic > y] Adamawa Fulfulde: mo'' -, moyy- "be good, be filled, thanks/mercy/blessings" (C.Sydou 1998, 451), Pulaar: moyy- "be well, kind, caring, generous" (C.seydou, 1998, 463); moyyere pl. moyye "blessing, grace, happiness", moyyango "be charitable towards someone" (D.Noyce 1989,251); mo're, pl mo'e, "benefit", moyyugo, mo'ugo, "goodness", Wolof may "give, offer," may gi (with /g/ velar certifying that the agreement class was with a glottal), "grace, aptitude" (A.Fal et al., 1990,128).
However , these forms are due to much sound change. The most archaic forms can be found in Bantu languages (of the bere branch of Negro-Egyptian). We must first note that the /3/ sound in Egyptian was historically vocalized as a nasalized uvular trill /r/ (Mboli, 2010:504),. The sound correspondence 3=l/r is demonstrated by Alain Anselin in his article "Some Notes about an Early African Pool of Cultures from which Emerged The Egyptian Civilisation" (Exell, 2011:49).
b3 < *b-l, 'soul' (Old Kingdom; WB 1, 411; on the identification of /3/ as /l/, see above and Anselin 2007a): West Chadic (Nigeria): Angas-sura: bel, "reason, sense, to be wise, intelligence, understanding' (Takacs 2004,31); Central Chadic: Matakham (Cameroon): *bl, 'genius, spirit, mboko', belbele-hay, 'genius'; Niger-Congo:Fulfulde (Cameroon): nbeelu(ngu), 'principe vital de l'homme - menace d'etre devore par les mangeurs d'ame' (Noye 1989, 40; see also, Anselin 2007b, 92); Semitic: *bal, spirit, mind'; Aramaic: bl, 'spirit, intelligence'; Northern Syriac: bala, reason, attention'; Arabic: bal, 'attention, consciousness, mind' (Takacs 2001, 6).
si3 <*s-r, 'to understand, know > god of the knowledge' (Old Kingdom; WB IV 30, 1-21), written with the hieroglyph of the cloth (Gardiner S32); si3.t (Pyramid Texts; Coffin Texts variant, sr3.t, identifying /i/ as a reflex of /r/): Central Chadic: Mofu-gudur: s3; 'to know' (Barreteau 1988, 198); Mercy: s3r, 'to know' (Gravina et al.2003); Udlam: -s3r, 'to know' (Kinnaird and Oumate 2003); Muyang: s3r, 'to get to know' (Smith 2003).
m33 < *mVl, 'to see, look, examine' (Old Kingdom; WB II 7, 1-10,7), phonetically written with the hieroglyph of the sickle (Gardiner UI), the phonetic complement of the vulture (Gardiner G1) or the determinative of the eye (Gardiner D4) (Kahl 2004, 166-7): Cushytic: Agaw; Bilin: mili?y-, 'to look,examine'; Kemant: mel-, 'to examine, observe'; Eastern Cushytic: Oromo: mal- 'to think'; Sidamo: mal, 'to perceive, advise': Somali: mala, 'thought'; Burji: mala, 'plan' (Anselin 2001). Omotic: Wolamo: mi, 'to believe'; Kafa: mallet, 'to observe' (Dolgopolsky 1973, 180).
You can compare a few terms in Egyptian with modern-day CiLuba-bantu to reinforce this fact. in Middle-Egyptian, for example, we have m3' "truth,real,right" with its shorter variant in ciLuba as munda "true" (where -nd <l) [see also-a/-a milowo(u) "agreeable, true, sincere, good; Kalenjiin man "true"]. The thirs phoneme ['] in the word m3' is a suffix and corresponds to sounds in Bantu /ng/, /k/, and /h/. For ' = k/ng, we can observe the following correspondences:
Cikam
'rk "to complete
'rk "tie, bind,"
'nh "captive, oath"
'rk "corner, angle, edge,"
'nh "beetle"
'3y "to grow up, mature, senior, excess (over), difference (in mathematics)"
i'n "baboon"
n' "compassion, benevolence
Kikongo kalunga "complete"
Kikongo kalunga "tie, bind";
Kikongo kanga "to tie up"
Kikongo konko "angle"; ciLuba ditengu/diTungi "corner"
ciLuba cijangala ~~~cijangalala "beetle, scarab." ; kikongo kinkakala, ekoka;
ciLuba -kola "grow, increase, aging."
ciLuba nkima "monkey" (=ncima)
ciLuba nanga > bunangi "love, charity"
Given the data above, we argue that m3' "true, real, right" (> m3'.t "truth, order, balance, etc.") was probably pronounced something like what we find in Basaa language: maeliga "truth." In ciluba-Bantu we have the variant Bulelela "actuality, truth" (malelela, malela). You can also say in Ciluba Cyama/Cama or CyaMalelela; Meyi-malelela or meeyi (tetela-bantu mete). The root of bulelela is lelela "actual, real, authentic, true, genuine, veritable," which in Egyptian is rrj "really, truly"; Yoruba ododo "truth, fact, justice, equality, right, righteousness." Thus, the root of m3'.t "truth" is in fact -3-; with m- being a fossilized prefix of abstraction and -' being a fossilized suffix. The following table brings a deeper understanding to our analysis
M-E rri "really,truly"
Ciluba -lelela (-lelele(a)) "truth, authentic, veritable"
Setswana ruri "truly"
Yoruba ododo, otito "truth, fact, equality, right, righteousness
M-E m3't "truth, justice, harmony, balance"
Ciluba ma-lelela "reality, truth";
bu-lelela "reality,truth";
cye-leke(a) "reality,reality";
bi-lengele "well,correctly, distinctly,carefully, right,rightly
Basaa maeliga "truth"
netuuk "truth (n-t-k>m-l-g ?)
Zande reng) "truth"
Somali run "truth"
Kikongo nlungu "justification (the state of being just), justice, righteousness, blamelessness, completeness"
lunga "be accurate,right, be exact, perfect,etc.,"
IsiZulu lunga "become right, good"
utu-lunga "accuracy"
This is important to note in relation to m3'.t meaning "order". This -3- root is cognate with ciLuba eela "introduce, put/set/make, push"; "dispose,arrange,lay, apply, put out, place"; "to express, to make, to exit from self ("sound, word, object, idea, etc.") This root has come to be associated with the concepts of distance, generations, and also deals with that which causes the perpetuation of something (to exit from self). We see this reflected in the following terms in ciLuba:
Lela "birth,give birth, produce"; "cause, source, generate"; "a family,a home"; "adopt, educate, raise"; subject, submit." baledi "parents" : buledi " to engender, maternity, paternity" : bulela "relationship"; relationship characterizing those who cannot marry one another"; "charity, kindness, generosity" : ciledi "cause, origin, source" :cileledi "matrix": cilelelu "Time of birth, date of birth" : cilelelu "placenta" (Syn.: ndanga, nkishyabende): dilediibwa "birth, Christmas (birth Of Jesus) ": dilela "birth,childbirth, labor, complicated thing, to be tricky": lelela [n + I> n, l + i> di] ---> - Badila > lelesha - "facilitate childbirth, attend a woman in childbirth": Lelulula " be born again, to revive" lulelu "childbirth, fertility, generation": Mulelu > muledi "parent, mother, father" mulela "member of the extended family, parent" mulelu "human fertility, fertility": ndedi "cause (syn.: ciLedi): ndela "profilic person, with many children" : ndelanganyi "offspring, descedants, generations" ndelelu "descendants, generation"; ndelelu Mulenga "family planning": ndelu "generations, offspring, progeny": Tunda "bring into the world, give birth, born/rise. App.- Lela -> a-Teeta: lela- "be abundant, abound, overflow" [Syn.: Tengeka ->Akan, akanangan [n + I> n, l +i> di] -->sela]: Tengeka ~~~ Tenka- "be abundant, abound": Lelakana- ~~~ -lelakanangana "be found in large quantities, abound on all sides"
This is how the l-b variant in Indo-European came to mean "make love" (have sex). It is this sense of progeny, causation and relatedness that inform us of the other variant of the word m3'.t spoken of earlier mrj. The term mrj is defined as "love, want, wish, desire, prefer, covet, cherish".
i;ll touch more on this after the week is over. the thing with understanding linguistics, you open up a pandora's box if you will when it come to discussions like this. Deep subject
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