Last 18/19 NY Knicks season transmission: "F*** all the haters from you to SAS" See y'all in '20

Miles Davis

Prince of Darkness
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
8,098
Reputation
2,060
Daps
35,405
Reppin
Bebop
Man yall need to let this man continue to experiment and rack up these Ls. Zion or Cam we waiting for you baby. :blessed:
This is where I’m at. However, I want to see the youth get majority of minutes. This is a losing season, fukk everyone else that won’t be here next year or a few years from now. Let’s focus heavy on Knox, Mitch, Dot, Frank, and Zo.
 

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
25,187
Reputation
13,352
Daps
102,157
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
Brehs...let's really be logical about Fizdale.

We can say all we want about the youth playing every minute...but shyt doesn't work that way in real life.

Think about this...We are trying to help develop Frank, right? So, imagine Frank playing w/ a full lineup of wet behind the ears teammates who don't know enough to be in the right spot to catch the pass that Frank throws? How does it affect Frank's development if his fellow 20 year old bricks every shot he passes to them? It's possible that just throwing the kids out there completely could prevent a player from understanding what he did right or wrong when it comes to helping his team.

Mitch? It sounds great to have him start every game, right? What happens when his development is at risk as a result of his inability to stay on the court b/c of early foul trouble in the first 4 minutes of games? Have we thought about the challenge of placing Mitch in the right times to help him see the game a bit slower in order to excel?

Knox? His shooting stroke is excellent. But, his confidence and drive seem to be out of wack and we are risking making him complacent if he doesn't have to work for his minutes. Knox shoots 15 shoots, bricks most, plays horrible defense and still is rewarded w/ 28 mins a game? Yes, the extra time might help him...or maybe he needs to feel hungry and has to ride the bench until he goes out there and shows that killer instinct and locked in mentality.

We also have to realize that Fiz has already said he doesn't put an age limit on development. Why shouldn't we - during a development year - try to - as a second priority - also foster the development of the other not so young but not old players on our squad? Would Timmy be excelling and blossoming like this if we looked at him as just being the player he was last year and thinking he has no room for actual development? Mudiay, Hezonja & Vonleh need to be given chances as well.
 
Last edited:

storyteller

Veteran
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
16,767
Reputation
5,272
Daps
63,996
Reppin
NYC
Brehs...let's really be logical about Fizdale.

We can say all we want about the youth playing every minute...but shyt doesn't work that way in real life.

Think about this...We are trying to help develop Frank, right? So, imagine Frank playing w/ a full lineup of wet behind the ears teammates who don't know enough to be in the right spot to catch the pass that Frank throws? How does it affect Frank's development if his fellow 20 year old bricks every shot he passes to them? It's possible that just throwing the kids out there completely could prevent a player from understanding what he did right or wrong when it comes to helping his team.

Mitch? It sounds great to have him start every game, right? What happens when his development is act risk b/c he is unable to stay on the court b/c of early foul trouble in the first 4 minutes of games? Have we thought about the challenge of placing Mitch in the right times to help him see the game a bit slower in order to to excel?

Knox? His shooting stroke is excellent. But, his confidence and drive seem to be out of wack and we are risking making him complacent if he doesn't have to work for his minutes. Knox shoots 15 shoots, bricks most, plays horrible defense and still is rewarded w/ 28 mins a game? Yes, the extra time might help him...or maybe he needs to feel hungry and has to ride the bench until he goes out there and shows that killer instinct and locked in mentality.

We also have to realize that Fiz has already said he doesn't put an age limit on development. Why shouldn't we - during a development year - try to - as a second priority - also foster the development of the other not so young but not old players on our squad? Would Timmy be excelling and blossoming like this if we looked at him as just being the player he was last year and thinking he has no room for actual development? Mudiay, Hezonja & Vonleh need to be given chances as well.

It's definitely a complicated equation to figure out the best route for developing these cats. I look at it kinda like a jigsaw puzzle of skillsets.

I think getting Frank a more spaced out floor and opportunities to use screens is the recipe to help him. Giving him a player that can create their own shot is necessary for sure, be it Tim or Burke or Zo; because Frank won't force things unless the clock is low but those guys will push the issue.

Mitch avoiding fouls is probably better served rocking with Frank and Dot than Tim and Hezonja even though those two are more experienced (because the latter two give up more slashing to the basket and are less effective weakside helpers). Weakside help is probably the biggest deal here because when Robinson is overpowered in the post, that weakside double team can bail him out of picking up cheap fouls to avoid easy buckets.

With Knox, I'd lean toward Mudiay being a good helpful player since he has the passing ability but right now Manny is scoring focused so it's a bit tricky. So I'm not sure we have the type of players to get him easy looks unless the plays call for it. That's my case for getting him the rock in motion with some offball screens (I think this might be helpful for Frank too tbh).

So imho, you're right that the minutes only matters as much as the players around these guys. You put Mitch in that starting unit and he'll be picking up fouls. You put Frank with Dotson and Baker; nobody's going to breakdown the defense with any consistency. If Knox is out there with only scoring focused players then he's more liable to force the issue when he gets what few touches he does. Now on the development for the older cats; there's two conflicting thoughts I have. That I'ma list real quick (better spaced text that way)

1) Mudiay, Hezonja and Vonleh are expiring contracts. That's not a reason to just ignore them but developing them should be secondary to the long term pieces we have in place imo. Their success or failure could be completely irrelevant to us next season if we sign a max player and none of them wants to take an exception based contract. I think Vonleh is playing himself into a back-up contract, Mudiay if he sustains this too and I'm assuming Burke gets some money to score elsewhere too off of his performance last year and now. BUT...

2) The conflict here is something I've seen Jonathon Macri talk about that kinda opened my perspective on this...If Mudiay, Vonleh and Hezonja all show growth that gets them paid this coming offseason; that's a selling point for our front office and coach to any FA's that are interested. "You need to reset and prove yourself to the league? We can absolutely help you with that and look at the track record." That might not sound like the most valuable type of FA to target but we're super maxing KP soon and lord willing we are about to use all the cap space on one major key piece. That means we'll be relying on the draft and cheap FA's to finish up depth. So being a destination that can steal a gifted but struggling player for a year or two might end up being important (although a better scenario is all our draft picks work out of course).

So I'm still not sure what the balance is in giving the expiring guys opportunity and making sure that our youth is developing; but I do kinda like that the guys who have reason to focus on themselves are all playing together with mutual interests while our bench unit has an opportunity to develop chemistry before they're thrust into the spotlight again. This development ish is complicated AF and a night like last is the type to pull me back toward trusting the process (although I'm really skeptical about how long the new starters can keep it together without getting blown out on defense)
 

Miles Davis

Prince of Darkness
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
8,098
Reputation
2,060
Daps
35,405
Reppin
Bebop
The problem in that scenario of Tim comes when it looks like they’re favoring the development of some and not others. It should be equal but it doesn’t look or feel that way to me.

The team still seems to be lacking in development staff overall imo. It feels like a non factor. We can’t be coveting dudes like Zion, RJ and Cam if we can’t develop youth properly.
 

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
25,187
Reputation
13,352
Daps
102,157
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
The problem in that scenario of Tim comes when it looks like they’re favoring the development of some and not others. It should be equal but it doesn’t look or feel that way to me.

The team still seems to be lacking in development staff overall imo. It feels like a non factor. We can’t be coveting dudes like Zion, RJ and Cam if we can’t develop youth properly.
I feel you.

But, I think there is an argument that the abiliy to get young players to BUY IN as a team and be competitive against all odds is telling.

I'm really under the impression that individual responsibility has to be brought up.

Dotson was put into a position and has shown what he can do moreso than he ever did under Horn.

Trier has been given the keys multiple times.

Frank & Knox - we have to consider that the onus is on them to make the most of the very many opportunities they given.

Knox is shooting poorly but the real issue isn't the shooting opportunities...it's that he's not really showing a drive to do things to contribute other than shoot.
 
Last edited:

Miles Davis

Prince of Darkness
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
8,098
Reputation
2,060
Daps
35,405
Reppin
Bebop
I feel you.

But, I think there is an argument that the abiliy to get young players to BUY IN as a team and be competitive against all odds is telling.

I'm really under the impression that individual responsibility has to be brought up.

Dotson was put into a position and has shown what he can do moreso than he ever did under Horn.

Trier has been given the keys multiple times.

Frank & Knox - we have to consider that the onus is on them to make the most of the very many opportunities they given.
I definitely agree about Frank and Knox, but at the same time I believe that they need personalized attention. As for the quieter person sometimes you need that 1 on 1. Especially in Frank’s case as it’s a mental thing, we’re asking him to go against his personality which is very difficult. That’s why I feel the org needs to be getting them some vet mentors, then you look at the fact that this team doesn’t really have vet players to help them. Lee is the only real vet on the team and he’s not a pg or forward.
 

MR. Conclusion

All Star
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
2,585
Reputation
400
Daps
8,845
Reppin
Atlanta
I feel you.

But, I think there is an argument that the abiliy to get young players to BUY IN as a team and be competitive against all odds is telling.

I'm really under the impression that individual responsibility has to be brought up.

Dotson was put into a position and has shown what he can do moreso than he ever did under Horn.

Trier has been given the keys multiple times.

Frank & Knox - we have to consider that the onus is on them to make the most of the very many opportunities they given.

Knox is shooting poorly but the real issue isn't the shooting opportunities...it's that he's not really showing a drive to do things to contribute other than shoot.

Why is this such a hard concept for people to understand? I keep seeing talk about giving Frank more opportunities or better opportunities. How about he just take advantage of the opportunities he gets.
 

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
25,187
Reputation
13,352
Daps
102,157
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
Why is this such a hard concept for people to understand? I keep seeing talk about giving Frank more opportunities or better opportunities. How about he just take advantage of the opportunities he gets.
And, I genuinely believe Frank gets WAY more chances than any player I've seen who has struggled regarding the offensive eye test.

I think he deserves those chances, though. I'm a big Frank supporter. I'll go even further and say if Frank hits his shots that he should hit...we actually have a record close to .500. I will not shame him for what I view as a lack of confidence; I need the team or Frank to figure out what keeps his mind in the game for him to play as well as he possibly can within his identity.
 

ISO

Pass me the rock nikka
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
61,558
Reputation
8,447
Daps
196,063
Reppin
BX, NYC
He's 20 years old :usure:
There hasn't been a PG DPoY since Gary Payton in '96

Frank is a great young defender he's on the same tier as Dejounte Murray, Lonzo Ball, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Kris Dunn on that side of the ball, he should be in the running for All-Defensive teams but DPoY?

Ntlikina is going to have to cut his foul rate and produce more offensively if he wanna stay on the floor to even be in the running for these things
 
Top