PIFF101
Bring back the Golden Era
miss the game but looking at that boxscore
looking uglier than a Master P sneaker
looking uglier than a Master P sneaker
Last 18/19 NY Knicks season transmission: "F*** all the haters from you to SAS" See y'all in '20
- Thread starter DPresidential
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- blackexcellence fizdale knicks
fukk mudiay just run with frank and tell Timmy to settle down . Also start Knox
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
Dapped u but at least one of those blocks were actually at the three point lineDidn't catch the game but a center getting a lot of blocks usually implies that the perimeter defense is shyt
Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
I really, really wanna like Kanter but there are times where you don't want him near the court, tonight was one of those times. I wish he wasn't so hopeless on defense. Robinson on the other hand, was so good on defense he had DJ Augustin passing up jumpers that would've been considered open in any other circumstance, out of fear Robinson would fly over and swat the soul out the ball. Breh was looking like a more mobile Mutombo out there, it's crazy how good he is at blocking shots with both hands.
Fiz has had enough of the brick fest.
miss the game but looking at that boxscore
looking uglier than a Master P sneaker
Miles Davis
Prince of Darkness
He ain’t have enough of that shytty defense that got us ran out of our own building, by the Magic no less
storyteller
Veteran
A beatdown like the Magic gave to the Knicks is the type that raises questions. Knicks fans get locked in thought pondering the great philosophical questions of our time. Am I okay with this if it ends with Zion in a Knicks jersey next year? Is it possible that Mitch with 4 points had a bigger positive impact than Enes Kanter with 16? If Frank sits out 40+ minutes of the game while our offense first PG's play shouldn't the offense look better than this? Does the youngest starting line-up in Knicks history actually matter if the young guys don't get starter's minutes anyway? That's right, we've hit the point in the season where frustration is mounting and we haven't even eaten Thanksgiving turkey yet. The way to enjoy this season was always to look for flashes and development from the youngest players on the roster; but the growing pains hit twice as hard on nights when everyone looks aimless...and I mean everyone. Timmy chucked, Enes doesn't make anyone look better on the court but himself, Lance and Courtney are injured and the next closest thing to veterans we have are rookie contract castaways. There's not a calming presence to be found anywhere. The peace of mind for all of this pain comes in the form of Mitch Robinson and Kevin Knox being the only players to show fight into the fourth quarter and Allonzo Trier starting to find passing opportunities when he's keyed by defenses. The rookies were a bright spot, everyone else is getting dragged today, so let's get some catharsis...
Frank: Frank ntilikina played 6 minutes...in that span he bricked two wide open three's and a midrange pull-up that continued his shooting struggles. He also turned the ball over twice, once when he was gassed off of a beauty of a block and tried to post up (an attack on a smaller defender that I actually liked as an idea for development) then a second off of a pure lazy pass. This was enough to see Frank go to the bench and never play again. I have zero problem with the benching for his offensive struggles, but no one else stopped the bleeding or got the offense into any semblance of a rhythm. That is to say, we could pin the offensive woes to Frank like Fiz appeared to by benching the kid and not punishing anybody else, but that would take ignoring 40 minutes of incompetence that occurred while he wasn't even on the floor. Frank was really bad, so was most everyone else and a bit of volume production for Trey Burke shouldn't be enough to hide that.
THJ: When the team gets smacked by a non-playoff opponent like this, you tend to start by looking at the leaders. Tim Hardaway gave the Knicks 26 minutes of absolute futility; 7 points on 2/12 shooting and 0/6 from three with 1 assist to 2 turnovers and his only positive contribution being 6 boards. As the Knicks offense floundered, Timmy's attempt at leadership came in the form of taking every opportunity he could to force shots. He didn't break the defense down, didn't get others involved and was no form of calming presence or safety valve for a team that has relied far too much on him to begin with. He's stepped up to his role in a vast majority of games so far, but this was one of those games that reminds you we're probably putting too much on Jr's plate. With no ball handler's getting Tim easier looks, he struggled to make his own opportunities and I don't particularly blame him for it. What I do take issue with is that instead of reassessing his options and looking to create when the defense honed in on him; Tim just took contested jumpers. A rookie shouldn't be adjusting his game faster than our leading offensive player.
Dotson: Summer League Dotson has been conspicuously popping up in some recent games. That's the version where he doesn't assert himself or really see the ball at all, so you only really know he's out there for the odd rebound or defensive moment. That kind of player can get by when other guys are producing but on nights when the team needs a spark, he can't continue to float. Over 21 minutes Dotson went 2/4 and gave the Knicks 5 points and 1 rebound with 2 turnovers. His play was looking like a consistent brightspot for a nice run, but recently it's slipping into small streaks of action followed by long periods of not much. I'm not sure what the best solution is for that. He's still one of our better defenders and he can shoot the ball which is a need, but if no one is looking for him then he vanishes faster than Batman when the commissioner turns away.
Vonleh: I have a hard time being too tough on Noah Vonleh because his circumstances kind of suck. He's playing in a lot of 2 big man rotations where the other big man can't operate in space at all, so he's forced to play out of his range for effectiveness. My honest assessment of the team's recent struggles is that defenses have figured out that they can cheat off into the paint and really disrupt everything because we always have a non-shooter somewhere behind the three point line. This isn't a problem that Vonleh or any other big man can fix unless Noah starts draining that three ball which is a bit much to ask. Anyway we got 23 minutes from Vonleh to go 2/6 for 4 points with 9 boards, 1 block and 3 turnovers...the rebounding was emphatic and good as ever but everything else was counterproductive and I'll repeat that I don't really blame him. This guy has shown a lot of potential, especially playing the 5 in smaller line-ups, but that's all limited when you put him next to someone with a redundant skill set like these new rotations have.
Mitch: So I can finally be optimistic about something and it's a rookie that scored 4 points and grabbed 4 boards in 22 minutes. Mitch Robinson picked up 2 fouls quickly in the first half and was immediately relegated to the bench for the half, where he watched the game get blown out of any comeback hopes. He still came out in the second half and became the defensive presence that the Knicks had been lacking throughout that early portion of the game. Mitch broke the Knicks rookie record for blocks with 9...I said NINE blocks predominantly in the second half due to getting benched in the first. What little bit of fluidity the offense got came from transitions after Mitch blocked the ball and got blocks on drives or jumpers with his right or left hand while in motion or just stepping up to a man. Mitch Robinson was spectacular as a rim protector. Even more promising, he didn't pick up another foul. While I may ride Fiz for punishing some players over others, this was a case where the message was sent and accepted. Mitch got benched for fouling and came out with the same defensive intensity as before but played smarter to avoid those whistles. The KP/Mitch frontcourt pairing is possibly the most exciting thing to look forward to in the future because the shot blocking potential is nuts.
I'm over the character limite, the bench is next post...
Frank: Frank ntilikina played 6 minutes...in that span he bricked two wide open three's and a midrange pull-up that continued his shooting struggles. He also turned the ball over twice, once when he was gassed off of a beauty of a block and tried to post up (an attack on a smaller defender that I actually liked as an idea for development) then a second off of a pure lazy pass. This was enough to see Frank go to the bench and never play again. I have zero problem with the benching for his offensive struggles, but no one else stopped the bleeding or got the offense into any semblance of a rhythm. That is to say, we could pin the offensive woes to Frank like Fiz appeared to by benching the kid and not punishing anybody else, but that would take ignoring 40 minutes of incompetence that occurred while he wasn't even on the floor. Frank was really bad, so was most everyone else and a bit of volume production for Trey Burke shouldn't be enough to hide that.
THJ: When the team gets smacked by a non-playoff opponent like this, you tend to start by looking at the leaders. Tim Hardaway gave the Knicks 26 minutes of absolute futility; 7 points on 2/12 shooting and 0/6 from three with 1 assist to 2 turnovers and his only positive contribution being 6 boards. As the Knicks offense floundered, Timmy's attempt at leadership came in the form of taking every opportunity he could to force shots. He didn't break the defense down, didn't get others involved and was no form of calming presence or safety valve for a team that has relied far too much on him to begin with. He's stepped up to his role in a vast majority of games so far, but this was one of those games that reminds you we're probably putting too much on Jr's plate. With no ball handler's getting Tim easier looks, he struggled to make his own opportunities and I don't particularly blame him for it. What I do take issue with is that instead of reassessing his options and looking to create when the defense honed in on him; Tim just took contested jumpers. A rookie shouldn't be adjusting his game faster than our leading offensive player.
Dotson: Summer League Dotson has been conspicuously popping up in some recent games. That's the version where he doesn't assert himself or really see the ball at all, so you only really know he's out there for the odd rebound or defensive moment. That kind of player can get by when other guys are producing but on nights when the team needs a spark, he can't continue to float. Over 21 minutes Dotson went 2/4 and gave the Knicks 5 points and 1 rebound with 2 turnovers. His play was looking like a consistent brightspot for a nice run, but recently it's slipping into small streaks of action followed by long periods of not much. I'm not sure what the best solution is for that. He's still one of our better defenders and he can shoot the ball which is a need, but if no one is looking for him then he vanishes faster than Batman when the commissioner turns away.
Vonleh: I have a hard time being too tough on Noah Vonleh because his circumstances kind of suck. He's playing in a lot of 2 big man rotations where the other big man can't operate in space at all, so he's forced to play out of his range for effectiveness. My honest assessment of the team's recent struggles is that defenses have figured out that they can cheat off into the paint and really disrupt everything because we always have a non-shooter somewhere behind the three point line. This isn't a problem that Vonleh or any other big man can fix unless Noah starts draining that three ball which is a bit much to ask. Anyway we got 23 minutes from Vonleh to go 2/6 for 4 points with 9 boards, 1 block and 3 turnovers...the rebounding was emphatic and good as ever but everything else was counterproductive and I'll repeat that I don't really blame him. This guy has shown a lot of potential, especially playing the 5 in smaller line-ups, but that's all limited when you put him next to someone with a redundant skill set like these new rotations have.
Mitch: So I can finally be optimistic about something and it's a rookie that scored 4 points and grabbed 4 boards in 22 minutes. Mitch Robinson picked up 2 fouls quickly in the first half and was immediately relegated to the bench for the half, where he watched the game get blown out of any comeback hopes. He still came out in the second half and became the defensive presence that the Knicks had been lacking throughout that early portion of the game. Mitch broke the Knicks rookie record for blocks with 9...I said NINE blocks predominantly in the second half due to getting benched in the first. What little bit of fluidity the offense got came from transitions after Mitch blocked the ball and got blocks on drives or jumpers with his right or left hand while in motion or just stepping up to a man. Mitch Robinson was spectacular as a rim protector. Even more promising, he didn't pick up another foul. While I may ride Fiz for punishing some players over others, this was a case where the message was sent and accepted. Mitch got benched for fouling and came out with the same defensive intensity as before but played smarter to avoid those whistles. The KP/Mitch frontcourt pairing is possibly the most exciting thing to look forward to in the future because the shot blocking potential is nuts.
I'm over the character limite, the bench is next post...
storyteller
Veteran
Mario: Mario Hezonja played 27 minutes and managed to not look like a real problem player in his run. That's not to say he was particularly any good but everyone else was so bad that we can't let mediocre be the enemy of perfect in this one. Hezonja went 3/9 from the field for 12 points, 5 boards, an assist and a really nice block on what would have been a dunk. He was one of only 2 players to make more than one three pointer, going 2/3 from there and he also went nearly 30 minutes with zero turnovers. This wasn't a super Mario performance but it was productive and pretty efficient which puts him in the upper echelon of performers last night. Honestly, playing him at the 4 is good for spacing which has really started to stand out as we see so many two bigs on the floor at once.
Kanter: When Mitch came out of the game in the first half, Kanter came in and tried to be a leader. He clapped guys on, fought on the boards and gave the Knicks the only scoring they got in the first quarter. He pumped in 16 points and grabbed 15 rebounds in 26 minutes and had 2 more TO's which is something I've mentioned previously that we should keep an eye on. Here's the thing about those numbers though...they shield the fact that he was really bad defensively. Vucevic ate him alive and the pick and roll worked to perfection all night for Orlando. The Magic also ran a double screen play similar to what the Knicks do, but we see other defenses stop the ball handler...Kanter couldn't do that. So the three point magic of the Magic was really just drive on Kanter and kick when players try to cover for him. It's kinda nuts that Kanter's having these great games recently but the Knicks have had some of their worst performances. Now you'll probably look at those big numbers and at my applauding Kanter's leadership attempt then say "you're being too hard" but in the pained words of Sam Smith, I know I'm not the only one. That's because this damn near perfect article from Posting and Toasting just dropped that points out some of the issues that Kanter causes while chasing statistics instead of doing the things that help his teammates and not just himself:
How They Drew It Up: Enes Kanter Edition
Knox: Kevin Knox is beginning to show real signs of life even though he's visibly still catching up to the speed of the game. Knox played 26 minutes and scored 17 points with 3 rebounds and 2 turnovers to show for it. Shooting wise while the rookie wasn't efficient from the field, he made his way to the line consistently which gave him a strong scoring performance. Fort Knox went 4/11 from the field with 2/6 coming at the three point line and added 7/10 from the free throw line. The good is obvious here, he got to the line 10 times and it was no fluke. The lottery pick was able to slash and draw whistles by playing above most of his defenders, even dunking a putback over the Cthulu-like tentacles that are Mo Bamba's arms. That putback was an exclamation point of sorts too, as all three of the kid's rebounds came on the offensive glass. He's starting to really find his way into traffic for difficult boards on the offensive end. That's a promising way to get more opportunities and score, especially as he's played more SF than PF which gives him a size advantage. Now the defensive stuff is still a big question mark, but like Hezonja it was easier to look past because everyone else was bad too. That made it hard to blame him for mistakes that no individual would fix (maybe Mitch but that's cheating).
Trier: Allonzo Trier is still dealing with tighter defensive commitments to stopping his attacks and the results have been extremely mixed. He went 3/8 from the field for 9 points while contributing 5 boards, 4 assists, 3 blocks and also tallying 4 turnovers on the negative end. A lot of his production came in the second half as the rotation went more toward spacing to help him drive and he was the only Knick to key on Mitch Robinson's rim running which is a damned shame. Trier's turnovers are easy enough to chalk up to learning because he would pick up one by driving into traffic, then get another trying to draw that traffic and pass off...THEN get the assist on another try. It's progression, painful and slow for a kid that's used to being the scorer but it's growth nonetheless. I see a ton of potential in Zo and really look forward to seeing if he can figure out this added attention or how to make defenses pay for it.
Burke: Trey Burke didn't make much noise about being benched and sorta took it on the chin. When Fiz called his number for this game, he came in and gave the Knicks a different dimension. Burke was aggressive in a way the other PG's haven't been and got some solid results, especially in creating passing lanes on the interior. That said, his scoring was pretty disappointing with more attempts than points to show for it. Burke posted 10 points, 5 assists and 1 TO over 20 minutes on 5/13 from the field while missing all 3 of his attempts from the three point line. He gave the Knicks some nice production, but it wasn't particularly efficient. That said, his willful attacking created openings for everyone else in spite of the sub 40% shooting. So middling results that put him above the other two PG's in the race.
Mudiay: Emmanuel Mudiay had a pretty bad 17 minutes in his own right but did do one thing I've been begging for all season. Mudiay went 1/4 from the field for 3 points and 3 boards; not exactly a shining box score. It gets even uglier as Mudiay, Fizdale's favorite passer on the team, logged 0 assists and 3 TO's as the point guard for more than 15 minutes. Mudiay has yet to hit the 5 assists in a game mark and his creation has boiled down to driving into traffic than praying for a bailout when he's trapped. That said, I mentioned one improvement. That's in the form of his 3 earned FTA's (he missed 2 of 'em but at least he got there). Mudiay drove on multiple occasions with a mind on FINISHING rather than passing. All too often we see the former lottery pick try to finesse his way around people and avoid contact in route to a difficult angle to shoot or even pass to anybody. Last night, he actually picked a path to the rim and would not be deterred which meant he drove INTO defenders and the contact got him whistles. His only field goal of the night came on one such drive. This change in attacking mindset is simple enough but could lead to higher productivity. It didn't do that last night, but it's worth keeping an eye on.
Baker: Baker got 5 minutes in garbage time put up a nice little end of game box score with 2 points, 1 assist and 3 boards but it was garbage time.
Fiz: I've been frustrated with Fizdale's rotation, notsomuch for cutting younger guys' minutes but for not really doing anyone any favors. He's beating the two big man line-up to death and I think that's at the heart of our offensive woes. He's made it far too easy to double off of a man because we don't have a stretch 4 out there and the guards are all struggling, the three point shooting has fallen off a cliff and the turnovers have shot up. Coaches are exploiting that set up but in the name of rewarding all three bigs, Fiz is keeping up the combos. Last night we got Mitch/Kanter again and it was ineffectual as ever. By benching Frank and Mitch simultaneously for the entire first half, Fiz threw away any hope for a defensive minded comeback and put a struggling offense into a foot race with a team they couldn't guard. I realize that Enes Kanter's numbers are pretty and he pouts when he doesn't get his playing time, but Mitch is more important and the team needs to go with one big man for longer stretches. It's time to give Knox a look at the four and acknowledge that Hezonja's success lately is at least partially due to his ability to take advantage of the space most defenses are giving our PF position. On a night like last, I'd like to see him do more to rein in Tim Hardaway as he's pressing. Hardaway let the game come to him against the Raptors and was brilliant and yet a day later he was forcing everything. That's the kind of teachable moment where I'd like to see more. It's good to know that Fiz will bench a Ntilikina when he's struggling, but will bench a Kanter or Hardaway when their numbers are hiding a negative impact? That's gonna send a much stronger message to the entire team, especially if he'd like the roster to focus on playing winning basketball and not just getting up enough shots to hit points totals that are acceptable.
Kanter: When Mitch came out of the game in the first half, Kanter came in and tried to be a leader. He clapped guys on, fought on the boards and gave the Knicks the only scoring they got in the first quarter. He pumped in 16 points and grabbed 15 rebounds in 26 minutes and had 2 more TO's which is something I've mentioned previously that we should keep an eye on. Here's the thing about those numbers though...they shield the fact that he was really bad defensively. Vucevic ate him alive and the pick and roll worked to perfection all night for Orlando. The Magic also ran a double screen play similar to what the Knicks do, but we see other defenses stop the ball handler...Kanter couldn't do that. So the three point magic of the Magic was really just drive on Kanter and kick when players try to cover for him. It's kinda nuts that Kanter's having these great games recently but the Knicks have had some of their worst performances. Now you'll probably look at those big numbers and at my applauding Kanter's leadership attempt then say "you're being too hard" but in the pained words of Sam Smith, I know I'm not the only one. That's because this damn near perfect article from Posting and Toasting just dropped that points out some of the issues that Kanter causes while chasing statistics instead of doing the things that help his teammates and not just himself:
How They Drew It Up: Enes Kanter Edition
Knox: Kevin Knox is beginning to show real signs of life even though he's visibly still catching up to the speed of the game. Knox played 26 minutes and scored 17 points with 3 rebounds and 2 turnovers to show for it. Shooting wise while the rookie wasn't efficient from the field, he made his way to the line consistently which gave him a strong scoring performance. Fort Knox went 4/11 from the field with 2/6 coming at the three point line and added 7/10 from the free throw line. The good is obvious here, he got to the line 10 times and it was no fluke. The lottery pick was able to slash and draw whistles by playing above most of his defenders, even dunking a putback over the Cthulu-like tentacles that are Mo Bamba's arms. That putback was an exclamation point of sorts too, as all three of the kid's rebounds came on the offensive glass. He's starting to really find his way into traffic for difficult boards on the offensive end. That's a promising way to get more opportunities and score, especially as he's played more SF than PF which gives him a size advantage. Now the defensive stuff is still a big question mark, but like Hezonja it was easier to look past because everyone else was bad too. That made it hard to blame him for mistakes that no individual would fix (maybe Mitch but that's cheating).
Trier: Allonzo Trier is still dealing with tighter defensive commitments to stopping his attacks and the results have been extremely mixed. He went 3/8 from the field for 9 points while contributing 5 boards, 4 assists, 3 blocks and also tallying 4 turnovers on the negative end. A lot of his production came in the second half as the rotation went more toward spacing to help him drive and he was the only Knick to key on Mitch Robinson's rim running which is a damned shame. Trier's turnovers are easy enough to chalk up to learning because he would pick up one by driving into traffic, then get another trying to draw that traffic and pass off...THEN get the assist on another try. It's progression, painful and slow for a kid that's used to being the scorer but it's growth nonetheless. I see a ton of potential in Zo and really look forward to seeing if he can figure out this added attention or how to make defenses pay for it.
Burke: Trey Burke didn't make much noise about being benched and sorta took it on the chin. When Fiz called his number for this game, he came in and gave the Knicks a different dimension. Burke was aggressive in a way the other PG's haven't been and got some solid results, especially in creating passing lanes on the interior. That said, his scoring was pretty disappointing with more attempts than points to show for it. Burke posted 10 points, 5 assists and 1 TO over 20 minutes on 5/13 from the field while missing all 3 of his attempts from the three point line. He gave the Knicks some nice production, but it wasn't particularly efficient. That said, his willful attacking created openings for everyone else in spite of the sub 40% shooting. So middling results that put him above the other two PG's in the race.
Mudiay: Emmanuel Mudiay had a pretty bad 17 minutes in his own right but did do one thing I've been begging for all season. Mudiay went 1/4 from the field for 3 points and 3 boards; not exactly a shining box score. It gets even uglier as Mudiay, Fizdale's favorite passer on the team, logged 0 assists and 3 TO's as the point guard for more than 15 minutes. Mudiay has yet to hit the 5 assists in a game mark and his creation has boiled down to driving into traffic than praying for a bailout when he's trapped. That said, I mentioned one improvement. That's in the form of his 3 earned FTA's (he missed 2 of 'em but at least he got there). Mudiay drove on multiple occasions with a mind on FINISHING rather than passing. All too often we see the former lottery pick try to finesse his way around people and avoid contact in route to a difficult angle to shoot or even pass to anybody. Last night, he actually picked a path to the rim and would not be deterred which meant he drove INTO defenders and the contact got him whistles. His only field goal of the night came on one such drive. This change in attacking mindset is simple enough but could lead to higher productivity. It didn't do that last night, but it's worth keeping an eye on.
Baker: Baker got 5 minutes in garbage time put up a nice little end of game box score with 2 points, 1 assist and 3 boards but it was garbage time.
Fiz: I've been frustrated with Fizdale's rotation, notsomuch for cutting younger guys' minutes but for not really doing anyone any favors. He's beating the two big man line-up to death and I think that's at the heart of our offensive woes. He's made it far too easy to double off of a man because we don't have a stretch 4 out there and the guards are all struggling, the three point shooting has fallen off a cliff and the turnovers have shot up. Coaches are exploiting that set up but in the name of rewarding all three bigs, Fiz is keeping up the combos. Last night we got Mitch/Kanter again and it was ineffectual as ever. By benching Frank and Mitch simultaneously for the entire first half, Fiz threw away any hope for a defensive minded comeback and put a struggling offense into a foot race with a team they couldn't guard. I realize that Enes Kanter's numbers are pretty and he pouts when he doesn't get his playing time, but Mitch is more important and the team needs to go with one big man for longer stretches. It's time to give Knox a look at the four and acknowledge that Hezonja's success lately is at least partially due to his ability to take advantage of the space most defenses are giving our PF position. On a night like last, I'd like to see him do more to rein in Tim Hardaway as he's pressing. Hardaway let the game come to him against the Raptors and was brilliant and yet a day later he was forcing everything. That's the kind of teachable moment where I'd like to see more. It's good to know that Fiz will bench a Ntilikina when he's struggling, but will bench a Kanter or Hardaway when their numbers are hiding a negative impact? That's gonna send a much stronger message to the entire team, especially if he'd like the roster to focus on playing winning basketball and not just getting up enough shots to hit points totals that are acceptable.
Filthy McNasty
><(((*>
Can Ntilikina grow a beard or something? He looks like a lesbian.
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
I'm down but he's gonna need a defensive coach. He was about as bad as Kanter last night. The game might be moving too fast for him
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
Son got a lot of work to do. I've mostly enjoyed his three point stroke, ability to draw fouls, and the fact that he has a legit floater as a 6'9, 6'10 SF.
I can't help but look at some of the youth cores in the league and think we're among the weaker teams.
I want to see Knox eating very soon.
