DrBanneker
Space is the Place
Yeah and I understand the Chinese (even when poorly pronounced)
Language learning thread
- Thread starter QuintessentialBM
- Start date
Yeah and I understand the Chinese (even when poorly pronounced)
And a movie, damnit.
I see you're hurting from that still.
It could be worse. It could return like X-Files and ruin the series for you.
Let it rest.
I remember a chart of Pokemon I used to have, something like this.
I know all of their types, weaknesses, how to pronounce the names, levels they evolve at, which starts best to EV train, etc. All of that is a lot more complex than 2000 kanji characters with two different sets of readings, the difference is I was dedicated to that lifestyle.
Off topic but to think this shyt is still going
think I stopped playing after the third generation.Off topic but to think this shyt is still going
Lol the chart is even larger from when I stopped.
Started playing the first gen on an emulator in Japanese. Pretty good
from my notes
On the use of the word "Majesty" when translating /Hm=i/ "my majesty"
majesty (n.)
c. 1300, mageste, "greatness or grandeur of exalted rank or character, imposing loftiness, stateliness, qualities appropriate to rulership," from Old French majeste "grandeur, nobility" (12c.), from Latin maiestatem (nominative maiestas) "greatness, dignity, elevation, honor, excellence," from stem of maior (neuter maius), comparative of magnus "great, large, big" (of size), "abundant" (of quantity), "great, considerable" (of value), "strong, powerful" (of force); of persons, "elder, aged," also, figuratively, "great, mighty, grand, important," from suffixed form of PIE root *meg- "great."
Although the word "majesty" comes to us in English < French < Latin, its semantic scope is fitting for the nature and function of the kings of Kemet. In other words, "majesty" is a fitting attribute or description for the kings of Kemet. Kings were exalted in rank, considered great, lofty, elevated, honored, strong, powerful, important, and eldership.
Kings were even honored in the Sesh Medew Netcher writing system where we find the word for king/royal written in what's commonly called "Honorific Transposition." Ex:
/Hm.t-nsw/ - wife of the king, king's wife, queen
/mw.t-nsw/ - mother of the king, king's mother, queen mother
/sS-nsw/ - scribe of the king, king's scribe, royal scribe
/sA-nsw/ - son of the king, king's son, prince
/sA.t-nsw/ - daughter of the king, king's daughter, princess
In all of these examples, the word for king /nsw/ is written first in the glyphs out of honor. Thus for this reason and others, the kings were majestic within the culture of Kemet itself.
On the use of the word "Majesty" when translating /Hm=i/ "my majesty"
majesty (n.)
c. 1300, mageste, "greatness or grandeur of exalted rank or character, imposing loftiness, stateliness, qualities appropriate to rulership," from Old French majeste "grandeur, nobility" (12c.), from Latin maiestatem (nominative maiestas) "greatness, dignity, elevation, honor, excellence," from stem of maior (neuter maius), comparative of magnus "great, large, big" (of size), "abundant" (of quantity), "great, considerable" (of value), "strong, powerful" (of force); of persons, "elder, aged," also, figuratively, "great, mighty, grand, important," from suffixed form of PIE root *meg- "great."
Although the word "majesty" comes to us in English < French < Latin, its semantic scope is fitting for the nature and function of the kings of Kemet. In other words, "majesty" is a fitting attribute or description for the kings of Kemet. Kings were exalted in rank, considered great, lofty, elevated, honored, strong, powerful, important, and eldership.
Kings were even honored in the Sesh Medew Netcher writing system where we find the word for king/royal written in what's commonly called "Honorific Transposition." Ex:
/Hm.t-nsw/ - wife of the king, king's wife, queen
/mw.t-nsw/ - mother of the king, king's mother, queen mother
/sS-nsw/ - scribe of the king, king's scribe, royal scribe
/sA-nsw/ - son of the king, king's son, prince
/sA.t-nsw/ - daughter of the king, king's daughter, princess
In all of these examples, the word for king /nsw/ is written first in the glyphs out of honor. Thus for this reason and others, the kings were majestic within the culture of Kemet itself.
some notes
Fon language (fɔ̀ngbè or fõbè, pronounced [fɔ̃̀ɡ͡bē]): ho "house" ; me "in" > ho+me = home "inside, belly" > dahome "the belly of Da" (Da being god = Egyptian Ra.w "God")
Fon: ho (xwe) "house"
Ewe: ho "house" (ho-a-wo "the houses")
Kalenjiin: Kāāt/Kōōt "house; home"
Shilluk: gut "house"
Egyptian: Hw.t "(larger) house; estate (administrative unit); temple ("mansion")"
Fon: me "in"
ciLuba: mu "in, to, among, between"
Egyptian: m "in; of; (consisting) of"; "in; to; on; from (spatial)"
Fon: Da/dan "rainbow serpent deity" (personification of ordering principle)
Egyptian: ra.w "sun-god" (note sun wrapped around by snake)
Egyptian: ar.t "uraeus--snake" (syllabic inverse)
Fon language (fɔ̀ngbè or fõbè, pronounced [fɔ̃̀ɡ͡bē]): ho "house" ; me "in" > ho+me = home "inside, belly" > dahome "the belly of Da" (Da being god = Egyptian Ra.w "God")
Fon: ho (xwe) "house"
Ewe: ho "house" (ho-a-wo "the houses")
Kalenjiin: Kāāt/Kōōt "house; home"
Shilluk: gut "house"
Egyptian: Hw.t "(larger) house; estate (administrative unit); temple ("mansion")"
Fon: me "in"
ciLuba: mu "in, to, among, between"
Egyptian: m "in; of; (consisting) of"; "in; to; on; from (spatial)"
Fon: Da/dan "rainbow serpent deity" (personification of ordering principle)
Egyptian: ra.w "sun-god" (note sun wrapped around by snake)
Egyptian: ar.t "uraeus--snake" (syllabic inverse)
a good beginner discussion on Semantaxe
In short, although the vocabulary of a people's language may change, their way of thinking, their world-view mapped to words (i.e., their semantaxe) is hard to get rid of. This video speaks along the same lines regarding African-Americans and a Bantu way of speaking and thinking.
In short, although the vocabulary of a people's language may change, their way of thinking, their world-view mapped to words (i.e., their semantaxe) is hard to get rid of. This video speaks along the same lines regarding African-Americans and a Bantu way of speaking and thinking.
This is not surprising if you have ever read the following text
This is a classic Egyptology mdw-nTr workbook that might be of interest to those in this thread. It's worth checking out.
EGYPTIAN READING BOOK
VOLUME I EXERCISES
AND
MIDDLE EGYPTIAN TEXTS
SELECTED AND EDITED
Dr DEBUCK
PROFESSOR OF EGYPTOLOGY IN
THE UNIVERSITY OF LEYDEN
EGYPTIAN READING BOOK
VOLUME I EXERCISES
AND
MIDDLE EGYPTIAN TEXTS
SELECTED AND EDITED
Dr DEBUCK
PROFESSOR OF EGYPTOLOGY IN
THE UNIVERSITY OF LEYDEN
A quick linguistic lesson in Yoruba concerning Oduduwa. In Yorub, nouns are structured in the Vowel Consonant Vowel (VCV) format. Where there is an initial /i-/ vowel in the OYO/IBADAN dialects, it is an initial /u-/ sound in the ONDO-EKITI/IJEBU dialects. In other words, you should be able to tell which dialect a noun is simply by observing the initial vowel in many instances. This is important for the name ODUDUWA because the final word UWA is the Ondo-Ekiti/Ijebu dialectical version of the Oyo/Ibadan word IWA "existence, life, being." Names in Yoruba language are in fact short sentences. For our purposes the name Oduduwa has the structure of A "becomes" B. An example is OGUN D' EJI = Ogundeji "Ogun becomes two"; ADE D'OJA = Adedoja "The crown becomes a market." The d' in the center means "becomes." With an added /a/ (da) the d' means "creates." In regards to Oduduwa it is three YORUBA words = ODU-o DA UWA "Oracular Utterances Created Existence/Life." I mentioned in an earlier post that ODU can also mean "laws", so we understand it also as a phrase that denotes that the "Laws creates existence." Oduduwa is a title of the Supreme Being who uttered creation into being with its words. It is the very laws of nature that govern the universe. Again if we are going to claim that terms are borrowed from other languages, we need to know what the words mean in the host language and how these words are constructed. Otherwise you will almost always get it wrong.
Secure Da Bag
Veteran
The point of this post is to clarify some information regarding the ‘feminine -t’ suffix in Middle-Egyptian (M-E) and how this relates to the Km.t debate. I don't call the -t suffix in the word Km.t the feminine grammatical morpheme -t, because it isn’t. I strongly suggest for a change in terminology because our comprehension of this has consequences for our understanding of word derivation in Middle-Egyptian. The -t suffix in Km.t is an affix for place-names and abstracts. 99% of Egyptologists get the feminine -t suffix confused with the suffix for the abstract. So did many of the ancient Egyptian scribes. To help us better understand how this can happen, I have attached an article by the linguist Paul Newman titled, “Ethnonyms in Hausa.” Hausa is a Cyena-Ntu (Negro-Egyptian) language related to M-E. In this article, Newman discusses the affixes attached to ethnonyms in the Hausa language. Nouns designating a person's ethnic affiliation, geographical origin, or professional or social position are formed by a prefix ba- in the singular and -aawaa in the plural. Thus, a Hausa person is a bà-Haushèe. They have the feminine gender as well so a female Hausa person is bà-Haushìyaa. The Hausa people are the Hàusà-awaa. What is important for us here is the discussion that begins on page 316 of the document.
Paul Newman notes that there is an identical suffix -aawaa for place-names and that Hausa linguists have gotten this confused with the -aawaa (feminine) plural suffix for ethnonyms. But as Newman notes, “The suffix -aawaa is not really a plural marker; rather, it is a derivational affix semantically akin to bà-.” The -aawaa suffix finds itself attached to a number of toponyms in Hausaland: e.g., Dauraawaa (name of a town). I equate Hausa -aawaa (also written -wā, as in Mboli (2010)) to the M-E -w suffix of place (< w “district, region” [Wb 1, 243.1-7]) AND the suffix -t in M-E. How so Sway? Because they both derive from the same historical root in Cyena-Ntu: i.e., *kiʀ̃a-. The word for “place” in Hausa is wurī ( = gurī). It is cognate with Sumerian kur ~ kir "underworld; land, country; mountain(s); east; easterner; east wind"; Kalenjiin kōōr "land/country," kōōrēēt "country, place, world, land"; M-E tA "earth, land (as an element of the cosmos), country (geogr. polit.), Egypt, soil, (material), farmland, buildable land, a square measure); PB *-ci "land, country." In the Hausa, Egyptian, and Sumerian languages, the full form of the word with k-r/g-r/w-r/t-A consonant sequence dropped the final -r when the lexeme was grammaticalized in the language. Thus, we have Hausa -aawaa/-wā; M-E -t/-w; Sumerian ki- "place; ground, earth, land; toward; underworld; land, country; lower, down below"; PB *-ci “land, country”; ciLuba ci- “Class-7 noun prefix, which includes its function in place-names.”
When you say km-t you are saying “the place of km.” If you say wAs-t you are saying “the place of wAs” or “the land of wAs.” It has NO other implication other than a location or population center. When speaking about masculine and feminine genders, it first applies to natural gender of humans and other animate beings. From there it is metaphorically extended, depending on cultural nuances, to other concepts that, in real life, have no such distinctions. We know that place-names in Egyptian are not feminine, because words for “land” in Egyptian are typically not feminine: e.g., tA “land,” jdb “shore, field,” gbb “earth, field”; jw "island"; jfd "square plot of land"; jm "mud, arable soil, etc. In other words, the concept of “space” was not psychologically seen as a feminine thing. One term that might come close is Ax.t "field, arable land." But this could be the result of the -t “land” suffix.
The point here being that the -t suffix in M-E km.t is not feminine and is simply a grammaticalized and reduced form of the word tA “land, etc.” as I demonstrated in my presentation with comparisons with ciLuba and Sumerian. I believe that the -w and -t suffix derive, historically, from the same word *kiʀ̃a-, but one of them was probably loaned into M-E from a neighboring language. Because the -t for toponyms and the abstract sounded like the feminine -t, both Egyptologists and Egyptians were confused and many Egyptian scribes treated Km.t as a feminine. It is easy to confuse at times, but the primary texts make it clear that they always thought of Km.t and all toponyms as spaces/locations with no gender identification. As a result of our analysis, there is no “feminine -t” rule applied to Km.t derivation because the -t is simply a suffix denoting a “place.” It is no different than in English -ville, -land, or -ham in words like Concordville, Graceland, or Buckingham, respectfully. There is no gender implication with these morphemes and it is the same in ancient Km.t.
Additional Notes:
Kalenjiin: koor "farm, land, place"; kōōr "residential area, area of land where people live"; Kōōk "courtyard, neighborhood, community." Words for "land" in Cyena-Ntu often extend to mean "community; village; nation" as discussed in Imhotep (2019).
Sumerian: ĝiri "via, by means of, under the authority of someone; foot; path." All of these words for "place" ultimately derive from a word for "foot" in Cyena-Ntu (Cf. Kalenjiin keel/keen "foot; bottom"; kēēyo "flat piece of land from the foot of the escarpment to the plain").
Ethnonyms in Hausa
Paul Newman notes that there is an identical suffix -aawaa for place-names and that Hausa linguists have gotten this confused with the -aawaa (feminine) plural suffix for ethnonyms. But as Newman notes, “The suffix -aawaa is not really a plural marker; rather, it is a derivational affix semantically akin to bà-.” The -aawaa suffix finds itself attached to a number of toponyms in Hausaland: e.g., Dauraawaa (name of a town). I equate Hausa -aawaa (also written -wā, as in Mboli (2010)) to the M-E -w suffix of place (< w “district, region” [Wb 1, 243.1-7]) AND the suffix -t in M-E. How so Sway? Because they both derive from the same historical root in Cyena-Ntu: i.e., *kiʀ̃a-. The word for “place” in Hausa is wurī ( = gurī). It is cognate with Sumerian kur ~ kir "underworld; land, country; mountain(s); east; easterner; east wind"; Kalenjiin kōōr "land/country," kōōrēēt "country, place, world, land"; M-E tA "earth, land (as an element of the cosmos), country (geogr. polit.), Egypt, soil, (material), farmland, buildable land, a square measure); PB *-ci "land, country." In the Hausa, Egyptian, and Sumerian languages, the full form of the word with k-r/g-r/w-r/t-A consonant sequence dropped the final -r when the lexeme was grammaticalized in the language. Thus, we have Hausa -aawaa/-wā; M-E -t/-w; Sumerian ki- "place; ground, earth, land; toward; underworld; land, country; lower, down below"; PB *-ci “land, country”; ciLuba ci- “Class-7 noun prefix, which includes its function in place-names.”
When you say km-t you are saying “the place of km.” If you say wAs-t you are saying “the place of wAs” or “the land of wAs.” It has NO other implication other than a location or population center. When speaking about masculine and feminine genders, it first applies to natural gender of humans and other animate beings. From there it is metaphorically extended, depending on cultural nuances, to other concepts that, in real life, have no such distinctions. We know that place-names in Egyptian are not feminine, because words for “land” in Egyptian are typically not feminine: e.g., tA “land,” jdb “shore, field,” gbb “earth, field”; jw "island"; jfd "square plot of land"; jm "mud, arable soil, etc. In other words, the concept of “space” was not psychologically seen as a feminine thing. One term that might come close is Ax.t "field, arable land." But this could be the result of the -t “land” suffix.
The point here being that the -t suffix in M-E km.t is not feminine and is simply a grammaticalized and reduced form of the word tA “land, etc.” as I demonstrated in my presentation with comparisons with ciLuba and Sumerian. I believe that the -w and -t suffix derive, historically, from the same word *kiʀ̃a-, but one of them was probably loaned into M-E from a neighboring language. Because the -t for toponyms and the abstract sounded like the feminine -t, both Egyptologists and Egyptians were confused and many Egyptian scribes treated Km.t as a feminine. It is easy to confuse at times, but the primary texts make it clear that they always thought of Km.t and all toponyms as spaces/locations with no gender identification. As a result of our analysis, there is no “feminine -t” rule applied to Km.t derivation because the -t is simply a suffix denoting a “place.” It is no different than in English -ville, -land, or -ham in words like Concordville, Graceland, or Buckingham, respectfully. There is no gender implication with these morphemes and it is the same in ancient Km.t.
Additional Notes:
Kalenjiin: koor "farm, land, place"; kōōr "residential area, area of land where people live"; Kōōk "courtyard, neighborhood, community." Words for "land" in Cyena-Ntu often extend to mean "community; village; nation" as discussed in Imhotep (2019).
Sumerian: ĝiri "via, by means of, under the authority of someone; foot; path." All of these words for "place" ultimately derive from a word for "foot" in Cyena-Ntu (Cf. Kalenjiin keel/keen "foot; bottom"; kēēyo "flat piece of land from the foot of the escarpment to the plain").
Ethnonyms in Hausa
notes
ciKam and ciLuba-Bantu comparisons.
ciKam: prj "to go forth, to come forth"
ciLuba: -pàtuka "to go out; to show oneself, to appear"; -pàtula "bring out, put out, expel, exhibit, to publish, to produce"; (-aawula "to bring out, pull out")
ciKam: jpw "payments" (cf. tb "to pay")
ciLuba: -futa "pay, settle, compensate" (inverse?)
ciKam: pḥty "force, power"
ciLuba: pyopyo (ideophone) "strongly, strong"
ciKam: pH.wj "end, back, rear" (pH.wyt "anus"; ciLuba mu.fukutu "anus d'animal")
ciLuba: -fula "go all the way, reach the limit"; mfùdilu ~ mfùdidi "end, term, butt";
ciLuba: -pwà "to be complete, accomplished, completed, finished, to end, to be erased, to no longer exist, perfection"; ci.pwìdi ~ ci.pwìlu "end"
ciKam: pa.w "flames, fire, heat"
ciLuba: ka.pyà "fire" < -fù "fire; deceased"; mu.fwè(à) "fire"; pepepe "fire, heat"
ciKam: jpA "red dye"
ciLuba: -pyo "red; fervent, ardent, ardently, fervently"
ciKam: ptpt "to tread; to trample"
ciLuba: -ponda "crush, tread, grind, pound"
ciKam: ptH "to form, to create"
ciLuba: -fùka "to create, invent"
ciKam: ptH "to open"
ciLuba: -bùla "to open"; -bùdika "burst, open, to spring"; (-aawula "to open").
ciKam: fAj "to lift; to carry" (-aawula "to lift")
ciKam and ciLuba-Bantu comparisons.
ciKam: prj "to go forth, to come forth"
ciLuba: -pàtuka "to go out; to show oneself, to appear"; -pàtula "bring out, put out, expel, exhibit, to publish, to produce"; (-aawula "to bring out, pull out")
ciKam: jpw "payments" (cf. tb "to pay")
ciLuba: -futa "pay, settle, compensate" (inverse?)
ciKam: pḥty "force, power"
ciLuba: pyopyo (ideophone) "strongly, strong"
ciKam: pH.wj "end, back, rear" (pH.wyt "anus"; ciLuba mu.fukutu "anus d'animal")
ciLuba: -fula "go all the way, reach the limit"; mfùdilu ~ mfùdidi "end, term, butt";
ciLuba: -pwà "to be complete, accomplished, completed, finished, to end, to be erased, to no longer exist, perfection"; ci.pwìdi ~ ci.pwìlu "end"
ciKam: pa.w "flames, fire, heat"
ciLuba: ka.pyà "fire" < -fù "fire; deceased"; mu.fwè(à) "fire"; pepepe "fire, heat"
ciKam: jpA "red dye"
ciLuba: -pyo "red; fervent, ardent, ardently, fervently"
ciKam: ptpt "to tread; to trample"
ciLuba: -ponda "crush, tread, grind, pound"
ciKam: ptH "to form, to create"
ciLuba: -fùka "to create, invent"
ciKam: ptH "to open"
ciLuba: -bùla "to open"; -bùdika "burst, open, to spring"; (-aawula "to open").
ciKam: fAj "to lift; to carry" (-aawula "to lift")
ciKam and ciLuba-Bantu comparisons.
ciKam: prj "to go forth, to come forth"
ciLuba: -pàtuka "to go out; to show oneself, to appear"; -pàtula "bring out, put out, expel, exhibit, to publish, to produce"; (-aawula "to bring out, pull out")
ciKam: jpw "payments" (cf. tb "to pay")
ciLuba: -futa "pay, settle, compensate" (inverse?)
ciKam: pḥty "force, power"
ciLuba: pyopyo (ideophone) "strongly, strong"
ciKam: pH.wj "end, back, rear" (pH.wyt "anus"; ciLuba mu.fukutu "anus d'animal")
ciLuba: -fula "go all the way, reach the limit"; mfùdilu ~ mfùdidi "end, term, butt";
ciLuba: -pwà "to be complete, accomplished, completed, finished, to end, to be erased, to no longer exist, perfection"; ci.pwìdi ~ ci.pwìlu "end"
ciKam: pa.w "flames, fire, heat"
ciLuba: ka.pyà "fire" < -fù "fire; deceased"; mu.fwè(à) "fire"; pepepe "fire, heat"
ciKam: jpA "red dye"
ciLuba: -pyo "red; fervent, ardent, ardently, fervently"
ciKam: ptpt "to tread; to trample"
ciLuba: -ponda "crush, tread, grind, pound"
ciKam: ptH "to form, to create"
ciLuba: -fùka "to create, invent"
ciKam: ptH "to open"
ciLuba: -bùla "to open"; -bùdika "burst, open, to spring"; (-aawula "to open").
ciKam: fAj "to lift; to carry" (-aawula "to lift")
ciKam: prj "to go forth, to come forth"
ciLuba: -pàtuka "to go out; to show oneself, to appear"; -pàtula "bring out, put out, expel, exhibit, to publish, to produce"; (-aawula "to bring out, pull out")
ciKam: jpw "payments" (cf. tb "to pay")
ciLuba: -futa "pay, settle, compensate" (inverse?)
ciKam: pḥty "force, power"
ciLuba: pyopyo (ideophone) "strongly, strong"
ciKam: pH.wj "end, back, rear" (pH.wyt "anus"; ciLuba mu.fukutu "anus d'animal")
ciLuba: -fula "go all the way, reach the limit"; mfùdilu ~ mfùdidi "end, term, butt";
ciLuba: -pwà "to be complete, accomplished, completed, finished, to end, to be erased, to no longer exist, perfection"; ci.pwìdi ~ ci.pwìlu "end"
ciKam: pa.w "flames, fire, heat"
ciLuba: ka.pyà "fire" < -fù "fire; deceased"; mu.fwè(à) "fire"; pepepe "fire, heat"
ciKam: jpA "red dye"
ciLuba: -pyo "red; fervent, ardent, ardently, fervently"
ciKam: ptpt "to tread; to trample"
ciLuba: -ponda "crush, tread, grind, pound"
ciKam: ptH "to form, to create"
ciLuba: -fùka "to create, invent"
ciKam: ptH "to open"
ciLuba: -bùla "to open"; -bùdika "burst, open, to spring"; (-aawula "to open").
ciKam: fAj "to lift; to carry" (-aawula "to lift")