Kawhi Leonard has 13,006 career points

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Someone did a film study and basically compiled his at the rim percentage manually. @Rhakim brought this up a while ago so he'd be more likely to know where that source is.

There was also a deduction (based on overall FG%) that early 90s Jordan was a low 40s midrange shooter (which was still relatively good) but the 2nd peat is when he truly had the jumper that gets attributed to him.

Some painstaking detail given how bad a job the league did preserving footage in the 80’s. Low 40’s is still considered really good from mid range even today. It’s just not a shot you want to take a lot of unless it’s going in around 50%. MJ shooting around 49% the last 3 years in Chicago is what we remember. Kirk Goldsberry published the data last summer that KD each of the past 2 years is the only guy to shoot better from mid range in a single season while taking at least 10 attempts per game at 54.3% and 58.5% to 1996-97 MJ and 2010-11 from each shooting 50%.

 

[KFBF]

iv watched KW cook Giannis, Luka, and Embiid in the Playoffs when its really mattered.

I truly believe if KW didn't get hurt last year they send the suns home.

But the more I think about it, the more I realize it's hard to put him above other guys because of his health.

I'd put Kawhi up against all the folks mentioned. But yeah health is always a concern.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Someone did a film study and basically compiled his at the rim percentage manually. @Rhakim brought this up a while ago so he'd be more likely to know where that source is.

It's iffy because they ended up with higher %'s than were logically possible considering his overall 2pt%. So either they used a non-representative sample or they were fudging the #'s.

There was also a deduction (based on overall FG%) that early 90s Jordan was a low 40s midrange shooter (which was still relatively good) but the 2nd peat is when he truly had the jumper that gets attributed to him.

The issue was that MJ took more shots at the rim than at close range during the first part of his career.... but he was also a 52-53% shooter on two-pointers that entire time. So he CAN'T have great #'s at the rim and at midrange both, it's not logically possible. If he was a 70% guy at the rim back then then he'd have to be shooting around 30% from midrange for the math to work.

We don't have numbers for him until 1997, and by that point he was shooting way more midrange than at the rim. And the sample size is small so the #'s are weird. In '97 he was shooting 52% at the rim, which is fukking horrible, but 51% at midrange which is top level elite. In 1998, he was 64% at the rim, which is solid, but fell to 44% from midrange, which is very good but not elite anymore. So which is it? Even in his 2nd stretch, we don't know whether he was at the top of midrange or just very good, we don't know if he was pretty good at the rim or struggled.

 

[Shadow King]

It's iffy because they ended up with higher %'s than were logically possible considering his overall 2pt%. So either they used a non-representative sample or they were fudging the #'s.






The issue was that MJ took more shots at the rim than at close range during the first part of his career.... but he was also a 52-53% shooter on two-pointers that entire time. So he CAN'T have great #'s at the rim and at midrange both, it's not logically possible. If he was a 70% guy at the rim back then then he'd have to be shooting around 30% from midrange for the math to work.

We don't have numbers for him until 1997, and by that point he was shooting way more midrange than at the rim. And the sample size is small so the #'s are weird. In '97 he was shooting 52% at the rim, which is fukking horrible, but 51% at midrange which is top level elite. In 1998, he was 64% at the rim, which is solid, but fell to 44% from midrange, which is very good but not elite anymore. So which is it? Even in his 2nd stretch, we don't know whether he was at the top of midrange or just very good, we don't know if he was pretty good at the rim or struggled.

'97 seems to be an anomaly in both areas. His Wizard seasons are in line with '98. Even short range (3-10 feet) came back down to Earth after '97.

 

[Easy-E]

we sure bout this??

You not putting a two time FINALS MVP on two different teams in the Hall?

 

[MJ Truth]

He legit developed from a 3 & D guy into one of the top wing scorers at all levels & still one of the best defenders in the game. Can’t say we’ve seen too many guys develop their skills on offense to the extent he has. He just can’t stay healthy

No. Not even close.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

No. Not even close.

Not now. I was referring to when he developed his scoring ability 4-5 years ago up until his ACL tear. I haven’t seen many clipper games since then so I can’t really say what his defense looks like these days.

 

[kaldurahm]

When healthy I think he's top 5, and quite frankly better than Kevin Durant. His impact on games is ridiculous, when he was on Toronto. Too bad about the injuries, I think he'd have his 3rd ring by now. Hopefully before his career ends he gets another ring.

That midrange game

 

[Primetime]

Kawhi is stronger than PG13, which helps his dribble if that makes sense.

And I think having that speed and agility while not losing the ball shows how good Jordan’s handles were.

Yea that makes sense. Overall I think Jordan was a better passer, playmaker, and shot creator. I’d say Leonard was a better pure shooter and defender.

But Jordan’s work rate, durability, and athleticism were all otherworldly. KL falls short in those categories, which is why he doesn’t have the accolades that someone of his abilities probably should have.

For me, the difference in handles is negligible since neither was getting ripped/impeded from their spots. Neither none too fancy but effective/efficient.