SadimirPutin
Superstar
*saving this thread*
Kawhi is the closes to what MJ would be in the modern NBA
- Thread starter EBK String
- Start date
viktordoomsecretwars
Superstar
A better 3 pt shooter perhaps. But a lot of players were better 3 pt shooters than the young MJ in particular. That shot didn't matter a lot in the 80's.
But to say Leonard is a better shooter period is a bit silly considering Jordan possessed the most accurate mid-range jumpshot in NBA history and that most of his "shooting" came from that region.
Not saying that he would/wouldn't, but you have to take players exactly as they were, and not what you think they might be. Folks end up cross-threading eras by saying shyt like x-player from the past would be better if he had modern-day medicine, training, knowledge etc.
viktordoomsecretwars
Superstar
The forced comparison of Jordan to other players is just not appropriate at this point. He and Kawhi had some similarities but way too many differences. There's not player that can be accurately compared to Jordan. I'll just leave this here :
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SadimirPutin
Superstar
Half of ONE game in a series equates to "almost" now......
I really need people to stop extrapolating that one half game to a whole series....it is literally the laziest analysis
At best we can say that the Spurs looked to have the Warriors in that game 1.....but this is why 7 game series is the truest test in pro sports.
I am going to let these dudes cook but I am gonna come back to this thread when the postseason starts
And yet there's no mention of the game only a month before that series, where the Warriors (without KD) came back from a 22-point deficit when Kawhi played the entire game.
The War Report
NewNewYork
MJ worked on his game and it's safe to assume that he'd work on his 3pt shot if he saw it playing a factor in winning games.
GPBear
The Tape Crusader
One of the stupidest things I've read on thecoliYou're white
Don't speak on testosterone, you don't see us discussing sun burns
Go back to reddit so you can talk about betas some more, Evan.
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
Perhaps? He is undoubtedly a better three point shooter. As for the midrange Kawhi has also been one of the most accurate midrange shooters in his career with %’s comparable to midrange kings like Dirk and CP3. Kawhi has been a near 50% shooter on long two’s for quite some time.
Kawhi Leonard 2013-14 Shooting | Basketball-Reference.com
Kawhi Leonard 2016-17 Shooting | Basketball-Reference.com
Kawhi Leonard 2018-19 Shooting | Basketball-Reference.com
Also, Kawhi peaked at 88% from the line, Jordan has never sniffed that %.
viktordoomsecretwars
Superstar
.
While those midrange stats were not tracked in those days, we have some information from Jordan's 1990-92 season and his 1996/1997 season and it was probably even higher in the 80's based on what I've seen.
All these stats have been posted on here before, I don't have time to dig them up. He was shooting well over 50% from midrange which is unprecedented and at a volume which Kawhi simply can't match. Jordan could drop 40+ just off of midrange shots alone while doing so at a very efficient clip.:
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viktordoomsecretwars
Superstar
.
Actually this is a pretty good link that illustrates some of Jordan's shooting stats from near his prime :
Jordan didn't live in this 3 point friendly era. Jordan's 3 pt% was brought down by the fact that he didn't seriously practice that shot for most of the 80's.
He only shot 52 3's in his rookie season. Yet he was averaging almost 34 ppg throughout the 80/s Jordan will easily shoot more than 38% from 3 in this era considering the current importance of that shot.
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
Well over 50%? No he wasn’t breh
If that was the case he would easily shoot around 60% in the season or higher given his elite %’s at the rim and low three point volume. Jordan likely shot 45-50% from the midrange in his prime, his numbers weren't that much better than any of the modern midrange kings.
This is his shooting chart from '97, in a season with a shorter three point line which means a shorter midrange territory too. This supports what I said about him being around 45-50% from midrange at his very best and this was also before zone defenses diminished the efficiency of the midrange game. His prime as a shooter came in the second threepeat so I'm not sure why you're mentioning the 80's. I'm mostly surprised about his poor efficiency around the basket in that season but granted Jordan was past his prime athletically in '97, still I expected higher in his athletic prime he was probably around 70% at the rim. To compare his shooting just look at Kawhi's best midrange shooting season in that '17 shot chart I posted he shot 46% from 10-16 feet and 50% from 16 feet to the three point line.
MJ was a great midrange shooter but I’d still have to put Dirk ahead of him
Also, you not addressing that Kawhi shot 88% from the line which Jordan never did and has been an elite three point shooter (peak 44% on 4 attempts) which you couldn’t assume Jordan would reach that status even if he came up today which is irrelevant because he didn’t, not to mention their were elite shooters in MJ’s day and he played into the ‘00’s.
viktordoomsecretwars
Superstar
Well over 50%? No he wasn’t breh
If that was the case he would easily shoot around 60% in the season or higher given his elite %’s at the rim and low three point volume. Jordan likely shot 45-50% from the midrange in his prime, his numbers weren't that much better than any of the modern midrange kings.
This is his shooting chart from '97, in a season with a shorter three point line which means a shorter midrange territory too. This supports what I said about him being around 45-50% from midrange at his very best and this was also before zone defenses diminished the efficiency of the midrange game. His prime as a shooter came in the second threepeat so I'm not sure why you're mentioning the 80's. I'm mostly surprised about his poor efficiency around the basket in that season but granted Jordan was past his prime athletically in '97, still I expected higher in his athletic prime he was probably around 70% at the rim. To compare his shooting just look at Kawhi's best midrange shooting season in that '17 shot chart I posted he shot 46% from 10-16 feet and 50% from 16 feet to the three point line.
MJ was a great midrange shooter but I’d still have to put Dirk ahead of him
Also, you not addressing that Kawhi shot 88% from the line which Jordan never did and has been an elite three point shooter (peak 44% on 4 attempts) which you couldn’t assume Jordan would reach that status even if he came up today which is irrelevant because he didn’t, not to mention their were elite shooters in MJ’s day and he played into the ‘00’s.
Your counter argument works against you. In 96/97 Jordan shot an absurd 49% on an absolutely ridiculous 14.7 attempts per game. That is 588-1202 (49%). That's more midrangers ALONE than most players in today's game have field goals attempts
Did you really just ignore the link I sent you from the 90-92 showing Jordan shot over 50% from midrange with absurd volume with the regular 3 pt line ? I need to dip to the gym so I dont have time for round-aboutery if you're not going to address the evidence posted.
The numbers you posted for Kawhi's midrange percentages are clearly bloated due to the fact that you simply cherry pick which years you want to prove a point while ignoring his mediocre sub 30% shooting from midrange this season or his not so special shooting from 2013/14 for instance. Its like me cherry picking Jordan's shooting from his Wizards years to prove a point.
Jordan was arguably a superior midrange shooter in the 80's than he was in the 90's, especially taking into account the 2nd 3 peat era. You're one of those people who assume Jordan got progressively better as a midrange shooter when in truth, he just relied on midrange shooting more as he got older due to his loss of athleticism and an ability to get to the rim almost at will.
Kawhi having one peak season shooting 88% from the freethrow line means nothing. He's a career 85% free throw shooter like Jordan was (even taking Jordan's Wizard's years into account). Kawhi in the playoffs is a career 80% free throw shooter while Jordan shot 82% from the line for his playoffs career DESPITE playing in way more games.
Now address my stats. Jordan shot 51% from Midrange:over a span of about 2.5 seasons from 1990-1992. On
Isolation midrange jumpers he shot 744 from 1385 FGA with an insane 53.7% clip.
When has Kawhi ever come close to matching that volume? It's virtually unheard of today for a player to attempt 1385 isolation midrange jumpers. And Jordan was shooting them at almost 54%.
That alone puts him above any midrange shooter to ever play. Dirk, CP3, Kawhi, Klay simply don't have the volume to match Jordan's midrange game. They may have similar FG%'s but they shoot far less. It's like arguing JJ Reddikk is a better 3 point shooter than Curry. It's absurd.
I can also elaborate on more of the data above but what's the point of arguing something that doesn't matter that much anyway. I'm about to dip to the gym. Next time try and debate points to have a worthwhile discussion.
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If yall dont stop this shyt.
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