Judge to rule on whether yoga tied to religion

[ExodusNirvana]

I'm not ignorant breh, you can throw "_____ quan" s at me and I'll know what you mean.

BTW imo stay away from that northern/southern dichotomy thing. It really means nothing in terms of what the actual techniques of the style consist of. Example... Choy Lay Fut is southern but utilizes tons of leg techniques, Baji and Xingyi are from the north and have little to no kicking.. It's just a misapplied naming/grouping system.

Ahhh I see we speak the same language :ppvbro:

And you're right, I usually break it down like that cause that's the easiest way for me to explain it to most people

But yeah our system is composed of a lot of styles...about 26.

Our grandmaster is the nephew of Lee Zhong Gren, a famous figure in China. His family had lots of bread but his father did'nt really like him because he sickly as a child so he sent him to live with the uncle who then sent him all around the country to learn from different instructors. When he made our system he took a little bit from everything and tried to cut out as much of the esoteric or flowery stuff while at the same time leaving a good foundation.

So someone from our school you might see them use tie ups or locks that look kinda like Wing Chun but at the same time they'll have stepping that looks similar to Ba gua schools and floor fighting/grappling similar to Shuai Jao.

I'll check my notes and maybe I can give you list via PM...it's about 26 styles if I'm not mistaken

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

I'll check my notes and maybe I can give you list via PM...it's about 26 styles if I'm not mistaken

26 tho

Does he just curtail stuff for each student? Like personalize?

What jibengong (basics) do yall do?

 

[ExodusNirvana]

26 tho

Does he just curtail stuff for each student? Like personalize?

What jibengong (basics) do yall do?

Nah he does'nt even teach anymore really. He's "retired" he just does accupressure and physical therapy for people now.

We have "degree holders" class the last Sunday of every month where if you have a degree you get advanced technique/lesson. He's there then and so we all have to show up.

Other than that, he says the temple is our temple, it's our job it keep it going. It's been 46 years, as long as we stay the course and train good people, the temple will stay open. Sometimes he'll drop by during the week to do paperwork, or have meetings with the other masters.

As far as basics...we have like a general development set of exercises that you're taught. Push ups, sit ups, squats. Almost like PT in the military. Calisthenics, things that you can do even if you were in the middle of a forest with no equipment.

So for example Saturday afternoon class is 3:30. We start with the warmup/basic exercises which I mentioned before. That's about 45 min. After that we do drills for another 45 min. Punching, kicking, stepping, combinations all based on whatever you been taught.

After that then we break into sections. Basic students will go with someone like me who has a degree and knows all the techniques they're supposed to have and can teach them. More advanced people go off to the side and learn with the senior instructor or a master. Week one is punching, kicking, stepping etc. Week 2 breathing meditation discipline techniques. Week 3 self defense, fighting. Week 4 forms, weapons, fighting. If there's an extra weekend in the month we'll focus on special techniques like throwing or chi na fa or if you're advanced enough, ground fighting and floor fighting.

Then if there's some time left over and it's the 1st, 3rd, or 4th week in the month, we'll do some fighting but you don't start fighting til a year in, so if you don't have fighting you just sit and watch, try to observe, etc.

We only do forms on the 4th week of the month. Compared to other systems we don't have many forms. Primarily because Mr. Lee always felt that if you teach people too much form they never really learn to fight.

 

[YoungMasterGold]

Books were created by Hebrews in the 1st Century in order to access different parts of scripture they kept on giant scrolls.

Nonsense. Books weren't created by the Hebrews. Books predate the Hebrews. By the way, scrolls are books. And, even if one decides that what you mean by "book" is leaves of pages bound together, that, too, predates Hebrews.

The number '0' was created by a Hindu and algebra is an Islamic term.

Garbage logic. Your entire argument is a series of non sequitur . . . at best. Your logic, particularly at this juncture, is equal to one stating that because the car was invented by a Christian, then the ten commandments should be used in American classrooms. Anyway, the number zero is fully functional mathematical entity that isn't founded on religion and algebra isn't an islamic term. You should have gone, maybe, with the Pythagoreans. It wouldn't have made your argument that much better but it would, at the very least, have made more sense.

The first hospitals were in ancient Greek and Egyptian temples since religion and medicine were linked.

Somewhat. However, as a whole, medicine and the practising of medicine aren't religious nor tinged with religion. That someone participating in medicine might be religious or non-religious is of little importance to the teaching of a science (unless you're in fundy medical school. Disregard previous statement, then). Until Yoga is totally divorced from its overarching religious practices the argument over its allowance in american state schools won't go away.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

To Hinduism

For example, I study traditional Chinese Kung Fu. Breathing and meditation is huge part of our system. Our Grandmaster is a Daiost priest so the system has many of it's philosophical roots in Daoism as well as Confucism, and Buddhism.

But, our organization is secular. We have people from all backgrounds and walks of life in our temple. Muslims, Christians, Jews, and then people like me who are Agnostic.

Some people use the breathing and meditation to get closer to their spiritual high power, God, Allah, etc. Others such as myself (I consider myself agnostic) use it as a way to simply enhance and better their existence and their lives in general.

So...when it comes to these things, Yoga, meditation, breathing techniques like Qi Gong and what have you, it all depends on how it is taught, what is taught and how the practitioner uses it.

That's really the joy of activities like this. They can only really enhance your life and improve your quality of life. This is why anyone should really take up one of these things as a hobby or a side activity, but alas in this country it seems like ignorance is such an accepted way of life...dudes really don't give a fukk as long as their bellies are full and their wallet is fat, til they turn like 60 and have all these regrets when their bodies are weak and their spirits are broken and shyt.

The sciences of Yoga and the Martial Arts have their roots in eastern philosophies that originated in India which deal with spiritualism. Whether you want to call these philosophies a "religion" or not is up to you, but that doesn't change the fact that they ARE belief systems. The stretching, breathing, and mental exercises are meant to the bring the physical self in harmony with the "absolute," or "ultimate reality," but I'm sure you already know that.

I knew a guy who used to fast during Ramadan and offer Salat because it made him "feel good," but he wasn't a Muslim. That doesn't mean that offering Salat and fasting during Ramadan aren't Islamic practices.

 

[GMOGMediaTV]

You can't re-write history.

Either they are going to accept it as a religious practice since the foundation of Yogo comes from Buddhist and Hindu practices among others.

Or they can b*stardize it and call it something else to avoid the separation of church and state laws.

Let's see what happens.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

The sciences of Yoga and the Martial Arts have their roots in eastern philosophies that originated in India which deal with spiritualism. Whether you want to call these philosophies a "religion" or not is up to you, but that doesn't change the fact that they ARE belief systems. The stretching, breathing, and mental exercises are meant to the bring the physical self in harmony with the "absolute," or "ultimate reality," but I'm sure you already know that.

I knew a guy who used to fast during Ramadan and offer Salat because it made him "feel good," but he wasn't a Muslim. That doesn't mean that offering Salat and fasting during Ramadan aren't Islamic practices.

I don't know about the all the many Yoga schools because they are all different, but that's not the reason for the exercises in my system. In the system I train under the point of those exercises are to physically prepare you to be able to perform the techniques in the system, as well as maintain health. The breathing has many applications, but mainly to promote internal health and enhance the damage capabilities of your techniques. The meditation is simply a way to keep the body focused, relaxed and the spirit intact. And spirit in this case has a lot more to do with emotions and mental state rather than any religious concepts.

It has nothing to do with getting closer to God or any Gods in particular though various people have said they have felt things while meditating, that's really all up to the user.

At no point does religion come into play, which is why I emphasized the fact that there are people in many different religions in our school.

As I said, some people use the philosophies in the system and can tie that to their own faith but again, there are people like me who have their own system of beliefs or code and kind of just add this to it. And it's not even really addition, it's really just reaffirming my own pre-existing beliefs, ex. be kind to others, try and contribute to society somehow, stay healthy, etc.

For example, there are lots of things in the system that muslim or jewish practitioners simply won't do, such as breaking their religious holidays or what have you, in order to show up to class or other meetings. And these are people who have been training for decades.

The "philosophies" in our system are a lot more about how one should carry oneself as a martial artist than your religious beliefs.

This is why I said it really depends on the school and what is being taught. There are schools who teach Shaolin or other types of Kung fu and perhaps maybe they are more Buddhist leaning or a different religion altogether but that's a case by case basis, you can't paint everything with broad strokes.

If the Yoga school in questions utilizes a system that promotes secular ideals in order to teach it's system then it can have very little religious influence.

Poems or mnemonic methods in order to teach exercises or techniques don't count as a religious aspect. They are what they are: poems or mnemonic methods in order to teach exercises or techniques. And from what I've seen, most Yoga schools (I have a few around my way) emphasize secularism in order to attract more students and not alienate anyone.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

You can't re-write history.

Either they are going to accept it as a religious practice since the foundation of Yogo comes from Buddhist and Hindu practices among others.

Or they can b*stardize it and call it something else to avoid the separation of church and state laws.

Let's see what happens.

This is exactly how I see it as well.

 

[theworldismine13]

You can't re-write history.

Either they are going to accept it as a religious practice since the foundation of Yogo comes from Buddhist and Hindu practices among others.

Or they can b*stardize it and call it something else to avoid the separation of church and state laws.

Let's see what happens.

the yoga people won

http://www.the-coli.com/4707244-post35.html

 

[BlvdBrawler]

Yoga, as practiced now in the West, is HARDLY 'religious'......

Reclining Splits, Supta Trivikramasana in Ashtanga Yoga wtih Kino - YouTube

I'm questioning the rationale of the plaintiffs in bringing this lawsuit.
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I would fukking destroy that bish.

 

[Brown_Pride]

? Just call it 30 minute stretching and be done with it. I do "yoga" which to me is just stretching. If they start talking about aligning chakras then i would understand. Otherwise it's just stretching.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

I don't know about the all the many Yoga schools because they are all different, but that's not the reason for the exercises in my system. In the system I train under the point of those exercises are to physically prepare you to be able to perform the techniques in the system, as well as maintain health. The breathing has many applications, but mainly to promote internal health and enhance the damage capabilities of your techniques. The meditation is simply a way to keep the body focused, relaxed and the spirit intact. And spirit in this case has a lot more to do with emotions and mental state rather than any religious concepts.

It has nothing to do with getting closer to God or any Gods in particular though various people have said they have felt things while meditating, that's really all up to the user.

At no point does religion come into play, which is why I emphasized the fact that there are people in many different religions in our school.

As I said, some people use the philosophies in the system and can tie that to their own faith but again, there are people like me who have their own system of beliefs or code and kind of just add this to it. And it's not even really addition, it's really just reaffirming my own pre-existing beliefs, ex. be kind to others, try and contribute to society somehow, stay healthy, etc.

For example, there are lots of things in the system that muslim or jewish practitioners simply won't do, such as breaking their religious holidays or what have you, in order to show up to class or other meetings. And these are people who have been training for decades.

The "philosophies" in our system are a lot more about how one should carry oneself as a martial artist than your religious beliefs.

This is why I said it really depends on the school and what is being taught. There are schools who teach Shaolin or other types of Kung fu and perhaps maybe they are more Buddhist leaning or a different religion altogether but that's a case by case basis, you can't paint everything with broad strokes.

If the Yoga school in questions utilizes a system that promotes secular ideals in order to teach it's system then it can have very little religious influence.

Poems or mnemonic methods in order to teach exercises or techniques don't count as a religious aspect. They are what they are: poems or mnemonic methods in order to teach exercises or techniques. And from what I've seen, most Yoga schools (I have a few around my way) emphasize secularism in order to attract more students and not alienate anyone.

Well of course, they are running a business and don't want to alienate potential clientele.

I won't argue with your interpretation of "spirit" but it seems like you've taken up an understanding of the concept in a way where it won't conflict with your identity as an "agnostic." So you can conveniently reap the perceived benefits of eastern spirituality without actually pledging allegiance to any said doctrine. That's fine, but I'm curious as to where exactly you draw the line between simple meditative exercises and outright "religious belief." How do you view the self/soul in relation to the body? What do you believe happens to the soul after death? These kinds of questions are directly tied to the practices that you are taking a part of, and yes, to most people they qualify as "religious."

Just keep in mind that there is a reason why in the Eastern tradition, a potential pupil had to prove his worthiness before a Guru accepted him as his student. All this "I'm going to practice things in a way that suits me and only me and leave everything else on the table" is a product of the new age movement. It's different and attractive and people have been cashing in. It is what it is.

 

[IVS]

Haha! Its definitely religious. Why not just let the kids stretch and play. Why teach them yoga?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Your entire argument is a series of non sequitur . . . at best.

You totally missed the point so of course what I stated would seem like that. There are thousands of things that are 'tied to' religion in some way, shape or form. To bring litigation over something because it is 'tied to' religion, especially if it is proven to be beneficial to humanity and divorced from the religious teachings/inspirations that caused it to be created, is plain stupid and a waste of time.....like continuing THIS argument any further.
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[GMOGMediaTV]

the yoga people won

http://www.the-coli.com/4707244-post35.html

The funny thing is i was just about to come in here and post the link.

Not surprising, this judge chose to re-write history like I already posted.